speaker-0: We hear it all the time, protect your peace, elevate your circle, outgrow anything that no longer serves you. But nobody really talks about what that actually looks like. The friendships that don't come with you, the spaces that don't feel the same anymore, even the version of yourself that you had to leave behind. So I guess the question is, are we really growing? or are we just distancing ourselves and calling in alignment? Four titles, one truth. I'm Tommy.

speaker-1: and I'm Lance. Today we're talking about alignment or isolation. The truth about outgrowing people. How do you tell the difference between real growth and just distancing yourself because it's easier?

speaker-0: Let's get into it. I mean, I think real growth is evident, right? You set your goals and you start achieving those. And so I think that, ⁓ once you will, I'll take it from my military perspective, right? So I knew as a specialist in below, unless I was in a leadership position, you can, you can have fun. You can hang around. You could, ⁓ Uh, be buddy buddy. You could hang out, right? Unless you're in an E four, uh, leadership position or you are a corporal. Right. But then once you make non-commissioned officer corporal, uh, and we'll talk sergeant E five. You can still play around a little bit. can still hang out a little bit, but you cannot be buddies with them. So I know that like when I, when I first made, I was never a corporal. So when I made sergeant E five, I knew that the people I dealt with on a daily situation ⁓ in uniform would have to adjust. The advantage for me was I got moved from one ⁓ unit to another unit. I was at battalion. and then I moved to the company. So I didn't really have to sever those relationships that I had to the E4 and below I was in charge of. I'd still speak to them or whatever, but going into the new unit, I was a sergeant, that's how they saw me, and that's how the separation was. Keep going. when you become a staff sergeant, you know, you're not supposed to hang out with the sergeant E5 specifically the ones you're in charge of because there is ⁓ a requirement of both of those relationships. There's a requirement for the person that ranks the most that has the most rank, excuse me. And then there's a requirement for the the people who have less rank and you have to make a decision. Both of you have to make a decision. If we're going to be friends and stay cool, then we're going to have to figure out. this dynamic, you know what saying? When I'm in public, I'm not your boy, you know, I'm this noncommissioned officer. And when, when I'm in public, it's the same way for you, you know, you're not my boy, you're my subordinate, whatever. But in my instance, it was always better to separate yourself because it helps you stay away from conflict and compromise is the best way I can say it. And so with that growth of understanding that understanding, the rank, understanding the expectations of each rank when it comes to leader versus subordinate. I think if you can understand that, that's growth.

speaker-1: That's work group. To me that's work group because all of that is work because I came in and I'm a second lieutenant. Right. And I'm outranking everybody. Everybody. Well, yeah, everybody that's in there and enlisted things. as far as like probably emotional and work knowledge and stuff, I wouldn't because I hadn't been there. I wouldn't, you know, than the E7 or the E6 or that's... 30 years old, you know, I wasn't there. mean, so I think mine was a little different in that I feel like ⁓ when I got to college, you know, and leaving, I mean, that's where I feel like I started evolve and started growing because I left home.

speaker-0: changing from who you were.

speaker-1: changing that environment. Yeah. And then just being around different people, learning different things. And then while being in ROTC, learning, you know, the different rank structures and going through it. Cause we go through it as cadets. ⁓ As you know, you're whatever private and that's it's our major or first R and what you saw. mean, so you learn those pieces. Not, mean, but not like you where it's like, yeah, I could be a private and be a sergeant and we still voice because it's like yeah yeah because it's yeah because it's not uh yeah but it's understanding that you know when you get into the the real world a real thing this is how it's going to be so i mean so that piece was harder for me because a lot of times i was the same ages as well not no not as private as yeah e5s e4s right you know being at 22 euro But then, but I had a little more education than some of them and I. Yeah, so yeah. And so I mean, so was that was a different thing of trying not trying not to exactly what you said because yeah, be buddies or get close or be hanging out because it's like you got to say you got similar interests when you listen to that. I can tell you listening to music and ⁓ watching, you know, just those things. And like when you're playing like you're playing flag football or the softball, you know, whatever basketball. I mean, you're similar.

speaker-0: So when you left college and stepped into the army, your first NCOIC was what?

speaker-1: E7.

speaker-0: So Adam, roughly is between eight to 15 years age different. Yeah. So when you walk away, it's obvious you're going to have more relatable ⁓ circumstances, situations and experiences with the formula. So I get that.

speaker-1: It was... it to me. But it was the, which I'm glad I had an awesome NCYCE7. Sarge Rouse, ⁓ big shout out even to retiring as a command sergeant major and all of that good stuff. But he was able, I he was able to say, hey LT, these are some things you need to be focusing on. You know, get me to that, to look through that lens and to remind me, it's like, hey you can't, you know.

speaker-0: Non-commissioned officer in charge.

speaker-1: that's not good optics and you know just things like that because it's easy to gravitate to what you're familiar with. mean that makes it easy but it's like okay I gotta learn this stuff and not be not try to come across as an asshole you know not come across as a jerk.

speaker-0: Yeah. So I guess mine was more maturity because it's something that I understood was happening and it's something I had to make the decision on to where with you, it was more of had some coaching to help you clearly see the.

speaker-1: Yeah. Because I think you came in and came right into the game. You were in the pros. You were in the league. I started off in the minors, you know, learning. and then got thrust up, boom, you're right up, I mean, you're going into the game right now, you know, and yours is like, like I know that you got to, you got to separate, mean, cause that's what you were learning, you know, I got to separate, you know, when I get to this next one, I know I got to separate it. I can't, we can't be how we are back in the barracks or back, you know, on the street or whatever. You gonna address me by. what my title is. me that respect and I'm gonna give you the same respect. I think it's hard for folks ⁓ when you got buddies like that for them to try to, you know, it's like, look man, I'm gonna treat you with the same respect that you're gonna, you know, same energy, but we got different jobs right now, different responsibilities. Support me so I can support you.

speaker-0: Let me tell you something. It's if you progress normally, then I think it's something you can adjust to. If you are high speed at any point in your career and high speed meaning you're on fast promotion tracks, that stuff gets clear. I mean, it gets murky. Yeah, man, because, you know, like I said, I clearly understood because I spent almost six years as a E form below, right? It took me forever to get to E5. But from E5, Sergeant E5 to Sergeant First Class, it's like, three and a half years, you know what saying? And so you're making these friends and you're becoming cool with these people. And then next thing you know, you outrank them. Next thing you know, you're in charge of them. Yeah. And that's, that's not a problem that I had, but it is a problem that some of the friends that I had, because I automatically turned that switch on.

speaker-1: You're in that evaluation. When did you when did you stop playing basketball or stop being you being on the. ⁓

speaker-0: when I stopped.

speaker-1: Cause did, did that reason why I'm asking is like, did that have a factor in why you were ⁓ six years? Well, why you were six? I know that means friends, but okay.

speaker-0: cutoff score. Yeah, no, was freaking ridiculous cutoff score. The cutoff score was ridiculously high. And then when it would come down a little bit, it was to promote one or two people. And I wasn't one or two people. So I, I was always trying to improve. Yeah, I was always trying to get more points. And then I finally got Is a smaller circle always better or can it actually become limiting? Because we just talked about how we're advancing in our career and in life. We know that the circle gets smaller, especially when you're talking about leadership, because that's just somebody having to So do you think it... ⁓

speaker-1: I it just has to. ⁓

speaker-0: making that circle small is that like the best way to go it or is it ⁓ because it limiting yourself

speaker-1: I think you got to control it. I mean, I feel like you got to control it and I feel like it when you're a younger leader, I think it's good to have a. nice little community behind you. But as you go up in rank, just like the rank structure is where it gets smaller, know, as fewer and fewer and fewer folks, I think that just it collapses just because you have to have some type of control over what's going on and being able to actually see and view and. ⁓

speaker-0: .

speaker-1: Yeah, make decisions know who you like truly trust. I mean, that's what I think that comes down to is like who do you who do you truly? ⁓ trust or value their opinion on things because ⁓ You're gonna be in charge of a lot you're in charge of a larger group of folks Yeah, you know, so the decisions and things that you make have a bigger impact

speaker-0: more ranking.

speaker-1: So you can't have a huge group. Everybody can't be, you know, because somebody's feelings gonna get hurt. You know, somebody's not gonna like what goes down.

speaker-0: Bye. or to flip. It's going to affect your decision, the orders that you make.

speaker-1: Yeah, I don't I think it doesn't have to be like teeny tiny but I think it does have to be ⁓ You can't have a it has to be a smaller control situation where you can sit down and you know, and I think you have to be a to be very ⁓ Judicial and very selective. That's where selective on who you have in that in that circle, you know because especially in that and that's you know, when you're dealing with the job piece of it, because the, the, when you're, you know, when you're married or whatever, that circle is. Yeah. You know, it's usually you and your wife and depending on what it is, it might be you and the kids, if it's something that could possibly involve them and they're at a age where you're like, okay, I want to hear their opinion on this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in the, the work, cause that's, I feel like the, you're talking about growth, it's a, I feel like it's You have your work professional growth and you have your ⁓ self-growth, your personal self-growth, you know. And I think you go through those things, some of them, some of it's at the same time, some of it's at different ⁓ spots. And I think, especially for us, have been in ⁓ the military, it just comes up depending on what your job is, what your assignment is. what the job is, know, ⁓ doing what is required, you know, because it can either, some of your jobs make you have to grow, make you have to change, you know, and a personal thing is it can be a menagerie of things that make you have to start looking at yourself.

speaker-0: No, I get that. What you're talking about is exactly how I developed it. From the military perspective, I was on it because it had rules and regulations that I could go look at and I could see what right and wrong was from the rules and regulations and from my experience. When it came to life, and I know it's horrible to say, but I didn't...

speaker-1: Okay.

speaker-0: I didn't mature, I didn't elevate at the same pace. When I was ⁓ a sergeant, I was still silly old Tommy, but I adjusted myself in uniform. I made StaffsArt. I was still silly old Tommy, but I had grown a little bit, so I started to finally grow. I made Saw in First Class, automatic, and then I was slowly. So it was always, it was never the same. My whole time in the career, my military was never the same. My self-growth and my job growth or military growth. So the one thing that's consistent is once you advance past people,

speaker-1: Mm-hmm.

speaker-0: that don't have the same vision you are, then that's why your circle gets smaller. Because not everybody's gonna have, your best friend at an early age may not have that drive that you want when you step into the military, whatever. Because I know that ⁓ the biggest part of my personal growth and change was squashed immediately because I left Ohio to join the military. none of my friends left going the same direction I went, right? So that meant I was no longer in the same space. Secondly, that meant I had a completely different new future than everybody else, because everybody else was thinking college, pro sports, or just being in, staying where they were, right, hustling. And so that completely separated me from, but... when a friend of mine moved away from ⁓ middle town that sort of linked us back together because we now had more ⁓ similar thing absolutely so that's how ⁓ but part of the arm of the one that passed away ⁓

speaker-1: a line.

speaker-0: That's why our friendship stayed. Because we both noticed we were growing and changing. That doesn't mean my other friends weren't. It's just that I don't know if we both, me and those other friends and them and me, I don't know if they ever noticed ⁓ that we were on the same level now, you know, or I was on the same level. I don't know how those relationships fell to the side, but I do know, I learned earlier, about. putting the energy in people that don't bring value to you. Right. And that's where I was like, you know, I can't hang out with you for them below because there's they don't they don't bring any value to you know, where my goals are. And the same way with people, you know, I usually hung around with peers, or people I knew that were fast tracking and were hungry like I was. So if you were a young staff sergeant, and you were pushing trying to be great, and I was a sergeant first class, the odds are that you could be in my circle. But if you don't understand the differences between you want to be where I am and I'm where I am, then that could push you out of the circle. But I always had that, my lens for the military was always locked in. ⁓ the decisions I made, I made because I was well aware of the consequences. But my personal growth, was just, I can probably get away with that. You know, was all the wrong stuff.

speaker-1: Okay, so how does this show up at home? right. So as husbands, as fathers, what happens when you're growing, but the people closest to you aren't growing at the same pace?

speaker-0: So I was fortunate. I was never in a relationship prior to Nikki that could have anyway held me back because I didn't put as much energy into those. And if I was in a relationship back then, I made sure that it couldn't compromise my job because once again I was a military focused my mind. when I married Nikki, Nikki's fire and goals were not something that would slow me down. It was actually the opposite. It was something that added to why I felt I needed to succeed. know, even though the relationship wasn't ideal, because of me, you know, right. But I never for a second thought that anything the way she carried herself, the she presented herself or anything like that, I never thought that she was holding me back. Right. So nobody in my family, I ever felt I had to cut off ⁓ as far as fear of them holding me back. But I did run across family members that I had to distance myself from because they saw me as like a pot of gold. You know what saying? And I'm just like, I'm not, you I don't know why you think I'm wealthy. Yeah. Yeah. And I am not your ATM. And there were a couple of friends like that, too. So I'm not saying it wasn't a majority of my family, whatever. But there were a few out there that saw me as a ATM and felt that

speaker-1: to you.

speaker-0: they had not a right to the money, but they had a legitimate right to ask. You know what Like they thought they were in that year. ⁓ But like I said, close family, father, mother, ⁓ sister, Nikki, kids, never, never was I in a ⁓ situation where that was a question.

speaker-1: I mean me either, mean, because it was, was understanding, because both of us came, Audra was a year ahead. So both of us coming in and we're, you know, I'm in one, you know, nurse corps, she's in medical service corps. So knowing what the career paths were for that, I knew it was certain things that she had to do in order for her to, yeah, in order to advance. And I know it was, for me it was, some of those things that she was doing would have been niceties if I would have wanted to track in that command path or whatever. ⁓ No, it wasn't needed, but it was more of ⁓ getting over the ego thing. Yeah, well yeah, because it's like.

speaker-0: But it wasn't needed. compromise.

speaker-1: What a take, man. What are you talking about? So it was refocusing, but it was just the prioritization of what I wanted for my career. looking at it, because I was always looking at what's going to make me a better... What's my profession? Nurse. What's going to make me a better nurse? ⁓ What do I enjoy?

speaker-0: That was a decision that you had to make.

speaker-1: That was a decision. Well, just not pursue it. Not pursue it how some folks, you can pursue that and get in that track. And then you see like some of those people, sometimes they get promoted above the zone, you know, because they had that certain job and had that had that Colonel or that General that was rating them that makes their actual record. I think it looks better, but it's like, they can't do their job. know, because that was my whole thing was like, I'm not going to be an incompetent nurse and nobody's going to ever be able to say that I couldn't do my job. You know, and I knew what I wanted. When I finished I knew what I wanted to be able to do I didn't know what I wanted to be you know coming But I knew what I wanted to be able to do Yeah, I mean just know you know and that's from having family members mother Mother-in-law, you know people that were nurses and hearing them talk and knowing and going through nursing school It's like this shit ain't easy, know, it's not easy thing to do, you know, so it's like you want to be competent and knowing that you have a

speaker-0: be a competent.

speaker-1: you're responsible for folks health. know, so it means, but that piece was, it was getting over, getting over that piece and then it was just supporting, especially when you have ⁓ a, you have a partner that's high speed. Yeah, that's, that's going at say, okay, it's not going to be waste. You know, whatever little sacrifice, whatever sacrifice I felt like I made, I knew it wasn't going to be wasted because it was going to benefit. us.

speaker-0: YouTube. Yeah. So my question is, honest question. Did y'all have conversations about that or is this something that you sort of took on yourself?

speaker-1: Yeah, we talked, but it wasn't, it was, I mean, was always a...

speaker-0: the decision for you to do that. Was that you or was that a conversation?

speaker-1: I mean that was me and it was I mean and we talked about you know because it was like okay be like ⁓ what's what's next what do have to do next what's the next thing for you know we had those conversations what's the next thing on your you know your board what you need what's the next job you need to do so it ⁓ need to be command or I need to be in charge of this like ⁓ I need to go to school or whatever it was so then so that but the thing is is that it been I felt I feel like it benefited me because she would have to go do whatever job and it would take us to what at Fort Irwin, Fort Lewis, Fort Bragg or whatever. So when I got to those places and I knew that it's like, okay, I need to give me something else on my. resume that's gonna make me look a little on my record to make me look a little ⁓ different to show that I can still go out and do some of these ⁓ Operation jobs and stuff and be in the field units and do those things so I would it would make me go out and pursue some of those ⁓ Side gigs or whatever so that ⁓ I could get those to get that experience and also still be Yeah, still be a competent, you know nurse be able

speaker-0: during the

speaker-1: to lead in an area where I was.

speaker-0: I don't know, I'm gonna tell you, I don't know. Like I said, another advantage between Nikki and I is Nikki was never understand that she was always competent. She was always a go getter. She was always great at her job. but the military she never had that bond like i have military and i'm sure it has to do with her being a woman sure it has to do with her being black woman i'm sure it has to do with ⁓ being focused on cailin you know daughter so there's reasons why remember when i joined it was all me all the time who this is kinda i like this and then i put myself in that grind rut that that pushes you towards success and it's a very singular space. It's very selfish space if you want to succeed.

speaker-1: I see. And that's the thing too, is that, that, you know, those decisions that we were making when we were, uh, we didn't have to single when we were both, uh, didn't have kids. Then when you have, I feel like when you, then when you have kids that you grow, you don't have any choice. either grow or you don't grow and you fall off, but that you can also lose, you know, that makes your a little smaller because people who aren't looking and that you know don't have those similar interests are like I to go do this I can't you so I mean you can I think you're constantly growing and improving yourself just depending on what the situation is and where you are in your life yeah that piece of life

speaker-0: there. That's why I say, like I know for a fact there are times when I was growing and wasn't aware. And then there were times when I was growing and I was like, okay, this is where I need to be. But at the same time, I don't remember a time where I was separating myself from a group or a person or a situation and talked through it. I just made a decision. It just Ludo it and, and yeah, but that's one of the military things. Right. So I knew that when I went home on vacation or whatever break or whatever you want to describe it, when I went home in the beginning, I used to try to see everybody, everybody. But when you go back,

speaker-1: cut it off.

speaker-0: not everybody's trying to call you, not everybody's trying to come see you. And so that sort of weighed on me. And so when I would come back, would be less and less people that I would stop announcing when I was coming. I stopped trying to see everybody when I was coming back home. And that also helped me narrow my...

speaker-1: your group.

speaker-0: Yeah, because I'm gonna tell you something. One of the worst things in the world is for everybody when you come back home for everybody to act like they miss you and want to spend time with you and hang out with you. But when you're away, you never hear that is tough for me anyway.

speaker-1: from them. No, mean, it's just you just don't have those same interests or anything. You know how it used to be me. Because that was for me, because like not all my friends went to college. You know, not all went away. So a lot of them, you know, stayed around in the area right there. So then whenever I would come home, it's like, I want to go out to such and such. I'm good, you know. ⁓ But you know, it's funny too, I'm gonna say it's funny, but it's one of those things where it's like all of the dudes who I wrestled with, and you know, in high school and stuff, we can still sit down, I mean, I might not talk to them, but we can meet up once a year and just have good time, good conversations, because we had that similar bond during that time, which was... I mean it was big because we had, I mean we were together a lot, know, during that, during those times. But a lot, mean, but a lot of them I lost touch with just because we just didn't, I mean it's life, you know, it was like you start growing, I mean you start, you know, you're growing up and you're... But yeah, but let me ask you this before we go on.

speaker-0: wasn't Facebook back then.

speaker-1: whenever you deployed or Nikki deployed because were y'all ever deployed together or were you deployed separately? whenever you came home, either one of y'all, did you feel like, you know, when she started doing it, you know, she grew or...

speaker-0: ⁓ well see, I, my, a real moment, right? So Nikki, ⁓ she went from E one or E three to E six, Cause she had college before she came in. And when she was a staff sergeant, E six, she once again made a business decision for her and her daughter, Kaylin, right? And she decided to go to OCS. And so the OCS mindset that she needed was what I had every day. And so it was interesting for me on outside looking in. watching her go to OCS and having to commit to the military. One thing a lot of people don't seem to understand is that as a leader, you have to care and you have to buy in because if you don't care and buy in, then there's no way you can possibly protect your soldiers the way you need to. There's no way you could possibly complete the mission the way you need to. And there's also no way that you can ⁓ support yourself or your soldiers if you don't buy in because if you don't buy in, what I found out is if you don't buy into the military, you're leaving cards on the table that are beneficial to you, your soldiers, your unit and the mission. Absolutely. And so when Nikki went to OCS and became an officer,

speaker-1: He making it harder for us.

speaker-0: she had to give more of herself because she was a food inspector and now she's a medical services officer. Right. And medical services officers are those that they're not hospital focused. They're not TMC focused. You know, they're the operations or they're the support.

speaker-1: Not all of them. of them are, depending on what your job is, because it's huge.

speaker-0: saying that you can your job is no longer so focused right because she went from a platoon leader to an XO to a to staff and where she was only worked out of the vet because she knew she was going to a vet and then she was going to inspect commissary and stuff like that it was very interesting watching her have to adapt and adjust to a new way of seeing the military and

speaker-1: ⁓

speaker-0: And the crazy thing is that didn't bring us closer together in that point of view because it ended up being like a competition. You know what saying? And I don't mean competition to where she's trying to stop me or we're racing to the finish line.

speaker-1: Did you see it as a competition or did she or was it a mutual thing?

speaker-0: It was a mutual hardheaded decision because I was not professional, personal or capable in any of those areas to present my way of helping her. And she reacted to how my incompetence on trying to help her and my failure to motivate her and all that was mistaken as me trying to show come on little cub I got you you know saying because yeah and we see and her grind and her all that so it was a complete misunderstanding that we realized later on but

speaker-1: not respect her knowledge.

speaker-0: Yeah, I started to take offense that she didn't come to me. And then she was taking offense to where every time I come to her, I'd look at her like.

speaker-1: Let me help you out.

speaker-0: I got you. Yeah, look you know I'm saying and so it was a it was a it was a horrible miscommunication that caused a Riff that didn't need to be yeah, and I regret it I regret it because it has to do with my like I said my personal growth I wasn't there yet to where I could have my my woman my partner my

speaker-1: Be there.

speaker-0: wife where I could have her back let her know she had I have her back and help point her in the right direction and instead of it being mistaken of me acting like I know more and I'm the teacher and you're the student type of thing so yeah it was was silly.

speaker-1: I understand that. mean that's the way, whenever, shoot, the first time when I deployed, I was gone for that 15 months. was...

speaker-0: real.

speaker-1: Yeah, I it was early difficult. It was because I went was gone, came home after like five and a half months for, know, my two week, whatever, R &R or whatever. And then go back for, you know, 10 months. And it was just not being there, not. you know, and it wasn't FaceTime, know, wasn't a FaceTime where you could do that easily every day or anything like that. Yeah, like phone calls, but not being there and then coming home. And it's just like kids are bigger and doing, you know, doing and talking. And it was one of those things where it was like, I was like, who are these folks? What's going on? You know, and accepting. ⁓ It took me a minute to accept the. all of the changes they say. And all it was, yeah. That's all it was, was growth. That they were experiencing their life every day. and like, cause I just felt like my shit didn't stop from when I left, it's the same to where it is now, which I'm, know, knowing now it changed because just to what we're experiencing and witnessing and seeing. I mean, so it changed, you know, some good, some bad.

speaker-0: So how did that affect you deployed first? So how did that affect you trying to set her up for success when she deployed?

speaker-1: But just knowing, because that the thing. No, I mean it was, but it was like knowing that where they were going and knowing at the time that when she was going over was like, dang, we should have. You know, it wasn't the same intensity that was going on, which it was one of those things where was like, I'm glad. But you also as one of those things where it's like.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: I want them to see that I wasn't just exaggerating. You know, the shit was real over here. was. Yeah, so but I mean, but it was but just that being away and then just coming on, coming, you know, coming back and seeing the different change, seeing how how, you know, the getting the kids and me and just folks have ⁓ when you start doing that, why you say, you know, just.

speaker-0: ⁓ that's easy. So people say protect your peace, but when does that become avoiding hard conversations or accountability? So we talked about how we're, we're evolving and growing and we're dropping people off. We're tightening our circle. So protecting your peace is like, ⁓ my, my point of view is it's, ⁓

speaker-1: So.

speaker-0: basically explaining to people why.

speaker-1: I mean, I mean, mean, mean, it's a. ⁓

speaker-0: yes so my thing is i don't i do believe in protecting your peace something that i took one the more leadership i've earned in the more rank i earned ⁓ it was i consciously made sure that i did not expending energy where it didn't need to be expended so that cut down my arguing that cut down my ⁓ dealing with silly comments from people, peers, and seniors. It cut down. It made me focus on the stuff that mattered. That's how I protected my people.

speaker-1: You were good then.

speaker-0: But if it was something I had to learn, because if I had really tried to maintain my peace and tried to make sure that everything was solved and a solution was found for everything and reasons were given and people left with an understanding, you'd freaking go crazy. trying to explain to every one of your friends who you've lost contact with that, hey, I'm making this professional decision that I think maybe I still care about you as a friend, but I'm not going to reach out to you anymore. I don't, I don't see. And that's friends. And then same time with soldiers, same time with friends in the military, protecting your peace to me is never an excuse. Unless you're kicking the can down the road.

speaker-1: That's... Yeah, mean protecting your piece, that's, I think it depends on the situation. Agree. the environment because then it's, sometimes you have to protect, you have no choice but to protect your piece. And sometimes I feel like you have to put yourself out there in order to get something done because sometimes it's not going to be comfortable. sometimes you just to.

speaker-0: Well, 100 % the pieces like I said it goes back to me for energy I'm not going to sit there and make up a situation just ⁓ to feel if somebody's upset with me because our friendship has changed that's not something I'm gonna

speaker-1: So you're going around and around just to feel like. Like I'm trying to. Yeah, I was playing. Yeah, I mean that piece I don't feel like ever bothered me. Yeah, I never put any

speaker-0: what piece are you referring to? Because I think we're talking two different...

speaker-1: As far as like worrying about ⁓ if somebody was gonna like me because, or dislike me because I went away and we're. Not because we're on that week yet. I feel like, ⁓ I guess your ego, your pride, if you're, you know, the fear of being, not making a right.

speaker-0: That never fazed you. What piece are you talking about protecting?

speaker-1: call a right decision on something and not wanting to, ⁓ I guess having to accept that to be accountable for it. But I think that that comes with experience and age and where it's like where you're more open to hold yourself accountable. You're more aware of it. And I think if you can figure that out when you're

speaker-0: Yeah, that's... nothing.

speaker-1: figured it out when you're a younger person, if I could have figured it out when I was a younger person, you know, to truly hold myself accountable for things and not make excuses for situations and things then would have been a lot easier to have some peace, I guess, to manage that.

speaker-0: Next slide. because you were the piece that you didn't have was because of a ⁓ situation or decision that you didn't clarify or make

speaker-1: Yeah, didn't clarify, wasn't sure, you know, and was just like, don't know if I want to be arguing, you know, or maybe didn't give the full effort that could have gone for it because it was like, is it going to be right? I know. Let me go. I know where it's going to be okay. But let me go to do that little piece there and see what happens. Okay. But.

speaker-0: Yeah, didn't even go that route but I There were times when I've made decisions that they weren't Because sometimes you gotta make decisions immediately sometime and sometimes you never get all the information you need to make a great decision So sometimes you that's where you got to bring in your experience. You got to bring in your your intellect You got to bring in your common sense, you know, you gotta do all that and just do the best you can I don't I can't remember a time to where I felt my piece was stirred because of a wrong decision or hesitation.

speaker-1: Yeah, as far as like job patient type stuff, never had a problem. mean that was what is dealing with learning to deal with staff. people dealing with people is what I guess that's what I'm talking about. And that piece where it was like, Oh my God, know, would drive me nuts on stuff or where it was like, God, did I make the right decision on on that you know when it's like it could have gone this way could have gone that way where I had to learn how to yeah except to give myself grace on some stuff where it's like and and understand that you can't control everybody can't control every situation you know so

speaker-0: success. fact and you also cannot like something that I had to evolve into allowing people under you to make decisions and fall on their face or move because yeah because you don't really in the military I didn't have a lot of situations where I could let somebody fall and and and hurt themselves to learn a lesson because the mission is all

speaker-1: That's hard.

speaker-0: always do.

speaker-1: I it's gonna come back on you because then you're have to go back and somebody to fix it.

speaker-0: And so that that led Let cuz my my path to success I Felt I had to learn everything I had to learn if I'm in charge of a job I have to learn everything about that job and early on that was working. Mm-hmm, but then after a while you have such a large freaking audience or a large ⁓ number of people in your charge that you can't possibly know everything that all of them know. You can be familiar with everything, but you can't be the subject matter expert on everything. And what that means is having to delegate, accept the delegation and deal with the results. And that's, that was something I had to learn.

speaker-1: That's funny. sounds like nursing. Where you can have a situation and it can be five different things that you can do, but it's one thing that's the best. So then it's just like, yeah, getting to learn how to shift through all of the minutia in there and say, okay, nope.

speaker-0: What? getting to that.

speaker-1: this is this is the one right here and not this even though it sounds good it's not yeah yeah all right so have you ever had to outgrow a version of yourself and what did that process look like

speaker-0: and three other people was like, well, yeah. Yeah, it just goes back to what I was saying. ⁓ I've had to outgrow myself every time I've elevated. So for when I left Ohio to join the military, I was still the same person, right? But when I went through basic training and started to understand what the military was, When I went home, my friends and family saw me different because basic training will build you up or tear you down, right? My dad straight up said, you know, I'm standing taller, you know, my mom talking about it more, you know, started to put on a little more mass. So I just looked different after eight weeks anyway. So that was one change I had to get and I don't know if I told you I think I may told you before but almost like 95 % of my basic training class was all reserves or National Guard. I knew yeah like for instance my class specifically I knew I was never going to see these people again even though I made some good friends and so I knew going to the military or when I got to my AIT and got to my Final unit I Because we didn't have the capabilities and I didn't have the energy To try to stay in touch with them type those people. I didn't mean to say them type but with those people

speaker-1: We're trying to make lasting relations because you knew that well because you knew that it wasn't I mean it wasn't anything that was.

speaker-0: And that's the thing that happened with going back home. The more I went back home, the more I started to see that I'm not better or worse than these people, but I am definitely in a different space. And that

speaker-1: Yeah, I see it right there.

speaker-0: is what led me to believe that I don't have to go see everybody because not everybody may remember me, but not everybody's thinking about me because they're sending me emails and I send me no. And so that's a hard decision to make. was a hard decision to make for me because I don't know if some of the friends I would have ended up with would be the same. Would I have more from home? I don't know. And so that was that was something a consequence I had to deal with. after 30 years in the military is knowing that going home there's probably five people that know me now still and most of the people look at me to do a double-take like I knew a good guy that looked like you you know so that was something so every time I grew every time I got promoted every time I got in a different leadership position that was growth in the military and that growth and and that growth ⁓ clearly defined how I needed to conduct myself because when I became a first sergeant I knew sat down to myself and had this conversation I Can never be a problem in the problem solving steps. You know I can never insert myself to be the problem so I can't get DUI. I can't freaking fail my APFT height and weight. can't, not that I would have, I would have never sacrificed my career for silly mistakes, but you can still make silly mistakes, right? And so when I was a first sergeant, that was the most stress because I felt like I had to almost be perfect. and I always knew I wasn't perfect. And so, and I was the first time for six years. So imagine how that was on my head. And then when I made Sarmajer, you're so disconnected from E8 and below because Everybody looks at you with reverence. You know I'm saying you're revered respected just by the fact that they see that rank on you, right? And when you're a civilian clothes and then they hear you a sergeant major you see everybody Shake a little bit except by the sergeant major, right? ⁓ And so as a sergeant major Whether I was sitting in a battalion or whether I was on staff It was so much ingrained in me to be ⁓ the example that it was no longer stressful for me because for some reason when i went from e eight to e nine star major is sort of all just came clear to me that i don't have to try to be the example i am the example and so that took a lot of stress off me and allowed me to mature even as a star major and as a man so

speaker-1: I mean that's good. mean that same thing for the most part is meeting the expectations of each you know each rank and went up so it's like okay I need to meet but also exceed me my things are meet but you also need to exceed those if you want to make the next rank or try to get the next job that you want to get, not what they want to ⁓ give you. it was a... Yeah. believe it or not, each rank was different because it was different going from...

speaker-0: because that's

speaker-1: 05 to 06 it was different, but it was different going from 04 to 05 You know it was going from company grade to field grade. It was What's going on? You know and it's just

speaker-0: but was that a I don't want to say entitlement but when you stepped into that next level like the breakdown you just gave was it a self-conscious thing or was it

speaker-1: These are the expectations and knowing that more eyes were going to be on you, knowing that you were going to be what I seen and knew a little bit and knowing how I wanted to approach.

speaker-0: from what you've seen. That's what I was looking for. It your decision because you saw what it should look like and you knew.

speaker-1: what you wanted absolutely. You know what I felt like right was supposed to look like. It might not have been right, but I feel like in the end I had it down. after I got promoted to, because it was weird.

speaker-0: it was you.

speaker-1: getting from going from 05, 06. And it was just like, shit, I'm on 06 now, what's going on? You know, just learning that, learning the rank, learning, get it. And then once you get into it, then you see able to see that the, when I say advantages, I mean just how you can help more, how you can have more of a... Voice. Yeah. I mean, that's the way that I felt when I got because it was like, you know, I'm not scared about going at let's go talk to said, you know, when when when problems or something comes like, well, we can't. It's like, yeah, we can. Let's go. Let's go take care of this. get a reason why.

speaker-0: That's a thing that Fullbird gave you this our major gave me all those years before I've been Trying to have a voice Been vocal, but not everybody's receptive to it once you put that freaking star and that eagle Now all of a sudden they stop at the table say How did that

speaker-1: They see you. Yeah, they see you. Well, that's not.

speaker-0: You finally make full bird. Full-bird Colonel something your dad is impressed by something your family's impressed by something that you looked at and was like I don't know early how when you got to a point to where you was like I can see myself in there because it took me a minute to see myself as a sergeant I'm talking to have the desire to be the sergeant because as a e7 I didn't see myself as sergeant my first job as a first sergeant I was too busy fighting to see myself as Major, but when I moved on, then I started, and there were people that said I may have had it, but I didn't see it. And so you finally get to that plateau, full bird, me, Sergeant Major. Now it's time to give that up and walk into civilian life and retire.

speaker-1: I was fine. I was good. You know, it was was one of those things where it was like I just knew. I knew it was it was it was time, but the other thing, too, is that I had I had the advantage of ⁓ watching my wife get promoted and friends get promoted that got promoted to. ⁓ 06 where it was like, not leaving me, but you know, so some of that motivation where it was like, no, it's not gonna be, not me, it's not gonna be me where it was, wanted to get up there, but it was also, you you start watching other folks and you start watching some of your bosses and things like that. And it's like, wanna do that. You know, I wanna get up there so I can do that. Or I wanna get that job and to get that job, need to, that's where I need to be. So just doing those things and. to get there and then, when I retired, I was good. Because I could see all those folks and I'm like, they're okay. I'm fine. Yeah, I said I'll be fine.

speaker-0: And I've said it before, it was a cultural shock for me because I was a first Sardinian and a Sardinian major for a combined 11 years. So, know, there's a lot of dealing with that level of leadership as well as that recognition and the ability, the increasing ability to do things. my way because I started to speak as the army, you know, so that it was a little, it was a little issue for me, but it changed my circle again. Cause now, cause in my circle before it had become full of military people that I've served with and so forth. And now my circle is now, I still have those contacts, but my small circle now they're all local. And the ones that were sort of like Jermaine. Me and him were cool because we served in the same environment. He was the senior warrant and I was the school sergeant major for transportation for United States Army. And then our wives clicked, right? So we were cool. We weren't like best of friends, but we were very cool, right? And so now I moved away. and relationship, Nick and we call her buddy, Jen, they were still in contact, still best friends. And me and him now, we communicated through them. now they move out here. Now we're talking to each other more and we're becoming more more friendly. So it's amazing how your circle never, there's no final circle until you die.

speaker-1: well this women are better at communicate mean doing a longer distance in and because they can

speaker-0: I on the phone. feel funny staying on the phone long, talking to anybody, let alone to a dude, you know what saying? Even with Nikki, there's a point where I'm like, okay. And so I'm calling you, talking to Les, I'm like, two, three minutes. We got it, we good. You know, so, but that's funny.

speaker-1: Alright! So, growth sounds good until it costs you something. And the truth is, if it didn't cost you anything, you probably didn't grow from it. So, thanks for listening to us as usual. Let's keep the conversation going.

speaker-0: back. video.