Parker Yablon: What's happening elevation nation? It's a Thursday, March 12th. And I think we got some good weather this week. I think the sun was shining. It was a little bit warmer than previously. ⁓ I'm out West skiing and Sam is back from his trip in Puerto Rico, realizing he probably should have stayed. What's happening, Sam? How you doing? Sam Panitch: What's good, P? Happy fortitude and 15 Thursday for you. What do you got for us today? What's our topic? Parker Yablon: You know, I'm always a deep thinker. I'm always in the notepad on my phone. I think recently it's been Claude. I like had Claude create me my own journal. And now I'm like, anytime I have an idea Claude like takes it and it throws it into the journal and then spins it back up into like, Hey, this is what your theme was. Here was your thought. And I've been thinking about this idea. I know we go back and forth and this is a dilemma that we face often. Sam Panitch: Hmm. Parker Yablon: I think this is a dilemma that many people face and that is about the paradox of success or you could call it the success trap. So I got two paths for you, Sam, and I want you to think about which path makes sense. So first path, you work your job, you work hard, you grind, you put in the time, the hours, and as a result of that, you see gratification and satisfaction. from the impact that you're making through your work. And of course, as a result of that, you make more money, you have more impact. But you're spending less time on the things and the hobbies you love and spending time with the people you love because you're focusing on the work, the thing that's gonna give you gratification from the money that you're gonna make, you know, because you wanna live a financially free life. Or you have this other path. You say, you know what? I don't care about the money. I don't care about the impact of my work. So I'm going to work less. And as a result of working less, you have time to spend on your hobbies, the things that you love. But you live with the debt of that success, knowing you could have had more impact or financial security if you spent your time on the things that make you more money or give you more impact through your work. And so I go back and forth on this thing, dude. It's hard. It really is challenging. Like when should I be spending my time on work, going harder, spending extra hours? Because I know it might yield a return in the future compared to, you know what? Just like spend time doing what I love. And maybe that's what matters the most. Like does money really even bring you happiness at the end of the day? Sam Panitch: Are you asking me to pick one of those? Because I don't want to pick either. Parker Yablon: Is there a world in between that we can pick? Sam Panitch: I think we have. I think we're doing it right now. Parker Yablon: Okay. So. We're doing it right now. Do you think a lot of people fall in the trap of one or the other though? That they think that if they work harder and they go, go, go, that they'll get to a place where they can enjoy the fruit of that labor when in reality they've always thought that and they never got there. Sam Panitch: Bye. I absolutely. I think the United States was built on that concept. The upper middle class is developed on that. Go to Puerto Rico, go to Italy, go to these other countries, these other places. They just want to be happy. They want to be healthy. They want to have enough for their family. And that's really it. And I think it's a tough world. It's a tough ⁓ trap. Parker Yablon: Dude, that's my biggest fear in life. Sam Panitch: because we all fall into it. And you can say, ⁓ like I always pick the, you know, follow my passion piece. like, will you really? When medical bills come, when, you know, rent is due, there's a balance. And I think, you know, for us, Parker, I like the path that we're on. I don't know how long it's gonna last. I don't know how long we can do it, but I think we've done a pretty impressive and damn good job of working in extremely demanding and highly sought after full-time corporate role with finding things that bring us passion, both entrepreneurially, but as well as with our lives. Right. Ironically enough, you're now the Hooper in our frame friendship here. You love basketball. You love running. I love boxing. I love cooking. Right. We still have time for those people, those passions, those things outside of work even. mean, We live full lives, Parker Yablon: Do you think it's because you've said and you've said to yourself, I have enough or you've objectively created a definition for what enough is for Sam Panitch or is it you have put up and know known how you created guardrails in your life? Because I know when we first started this thing, this podcast and we were miserable as anything, I didn't have those guardrails. I didn't know. what the guardrails I could put up for myself. It was, yo Parker, the job, you gotta go this way, you gotta think about this, right? I was dreaming about work. I didn't know how to set guardrails. But now is it because we've put guardrails in, we're able to form almost like a path C, a different option, opposed to the two I put. Sam Panitch: Yeah. I think we're more used to it. I think we're more senior. I think ⁓ we're better at it. And we've learned how to balance everything. Parker Yablon: So let's give some tips to elevationation. What has worked for you in particular with regard to setting boundaries in your life? Sam Panitch: ⁓ Well, it's funny, right? I think back, I had a call with a new hire at the firm and went from entered to new hire. We had a call caught up great kid. And he said, what advice do have for me was starting off? He was expecting me to say, you know, some piece of business knowledge, something that would make him more successful in the big four consulting world. Do you have any guess what I told him was most important thing he needed to do first couple months? Parker Yablon: Star Podcast. ⁓ Sam Panitch: No, I said practice practice and get used to waking up early That was one of the biggest things that I struggled with was adjusting my body from college wake ups at, you know, nine, eight to a 6 a.m. wake up to try to get to the gym before work. said, give yourself some grace. That adjustment period is hard. You're going to feel weird. You're going to feel tired. You're going to feel in a funk. The first three months of work, I was tired every day. Whether that was depression, whether that was not getting quality sleep, whether that was my body adjusting, not working out, not hydrating, probably a mixture of all the things. But if you're tired every day, you're going to hate your job. Even if you're doing cool shit, you're just going to be exhausted. And so I think giving your body that ability to adjust to the real world is important. ⁓ But yeah, I don't know, Parker, I think like we get stuck in this paradox of more money will equal more happiness. I think for me, it's more money will of course be more freedom, but it's also more security. And you asked if I had a number of guardrails in place that would help me in establishing this. The answer is no. To be perfectly honest, I'm still freaked out. I have issues with my financial security. ⁓ And I think that's just looking ahead at the world that we're about to enter and my anxiety may be racing. I know I was texting you about this last night. the anxiety of not knowing what comes next. Where I think our parents generation it was work your way up the corporate ladder. Like sure technology is going to advance but you work hard and you can become know CEO of this company one day. It's not the case anymore. So there's a lot of ⁓ unknowns right now. Parker Yablon: Yeah, but I think it's like... To that point, most would say to get financial security then is you have to then work harder. And the byproduct or the thing that you need to give up to work harder is spend less times on the things that you enjoy. Sam Panitch: Hmm. Parker Yablon: And that is the trap because you could work harder and make more money and get to a point where you feel financially free or you may never get to that point. So if you're never going to get to that point. Wouldn't it make sense possibly to take the other route and not care as much about the thing that you think that you're never going to get? Sam Panitch: tough decision, I think it's very societal based, right? In the United States, it's a lot easier to just grind and grind and grind and say something better is coming. In other countries where they have a different perspective when it comes to work, and to how to live. I think they're very comfortable with staying relaxed. funny enough, I met a guy on my flight to Puerto Rico. ⁓ Really cool dude played soccer at University of Maryland. And he is German, but he works for an Icelandic company. And I was asking, you know, what is that like that culture change? Is it different? And he said, nobody works more than 40 hours a week. None of them. It's not that they don't work hard. It's not that they don't care. Their culture. tells them that it's 40 hours of work and beyond those 40 hours is for you and your family. It's socially unacceptable to work more than that. It's absurd. It doesn't make any sense. And so I think... ⁓ Parker Yablon: But that side, there's always a trade off too. It comes at a cost, right? Sam Panitch: Sure. I yeah, I guess, I don't know. If your society is cool with it, then it's I think less of a cost than doing that here. Parker Yablon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We live, mean, as a modern American, you know, to your point, it's probably, consumerism probably isn't as crazy as it is elsewhere in the world as it is here. You see what you want, where you want to travel next, the food that you want to eat, the place that you want to have, or even just the security that you know you can pay your bills. And in American culture, the way that you get that security is, to your point, Sam, make more money. Sam Panitch: Well, Parker, I would say you brought up something interesting. And I even felt this a little bit on my Puerto Rico trip. I'm walking around in paradise. Things are wonderful. But part of me saw all the emails coming in that I wasn't having time to reply to wasn't thinking about and part of me missed that. adrenaline rush of just grinding through shit and being productive and going, all right, I got all those things crossed off. Like I love deleting emails, crossing things off my to do list. I love it. Parker Yablon: You love the things that are real that you could say, account, you love the task check task check. There's nothing that I think you get more gratification from than saying that you checked a box off. Sam Panitch: Yeah, totally. And so when I was in Puerto Rico, living life that I had worked so hard to save up money for to be able to go, I was thinking about the adrenaline rush that I would get when I was able to sit at this desk and knock things out. Now I'm sitting at this desk and once I get through all those things, I'm sure I can't wait to be on a beach chilling somewhere else. Right? And so I think just humans are wired. I think it's just a DNA thing in the modern human. Parker Yablon: Ha ha ha. It's the trap. Sam Panitch: We want what we don't have. Once we have it, we want something else. And so, you know, to say whether, you know, working your way up a corporate ladder and making more money is better than quitting your job and traveling the world right now and making no money, who's to say? But I think ⁓ that's why I kind of like what we've done, man. Split the middle. Split the difference. Do both. Way easier. Parker Yablon: I think there's very few people who find themselves fully on path A or path B and everyone finds their own path. And I think the point of this episode is that the trap is very real. ⁓ Obviously everyone has their own unique experiences, but it comes back to it's like, how can you create the, the, the guard rails in your life that work for you on the things that you care about? but also knowing that you're creating guardrails to keep that security that is very important for you too. And you know what? It's all part of growing up and learning. Some people never figure it out. ⁓ Some people figure it out or think they haven't figured it out. I like to think at least having these conversations and being vulnerable and introspective with people through the podcast or through whoever we meet helps us figure it out. Sam Panitch: Hmm. Parker Yablon: And so Elevationation, if you're trying to find what that path looks like for you, maybe it's worth a conversation with someone else and ask them about their path and how they did it. Or more importantly, maybe it's time to grab a piece of paper and a pen. What does that path look like for you that you want? And start outlining what it looks like and maybe start taking those steps down that path. Because, like Sam said, as simple as changing his morning routine has made some big impact and changes in his life. Hey, by the way, I ordered a new bookshelf. It's coming. Sam Panitch: Amen to that. I'm glad. I'm so glad to hear that. I might need one too. Now you've sometimes people give us book recs I don't know if it's at the library. So I just buy it. It's just easier. I got a lot of books now. Parker Yablon: Dude, it's out of control. It's out of control. Sam Panitch: nothing compared to you but it's good. Alright Parker, I love you man. Until next week. Mahala.