Parker Yablon: Elevation nation. We are back with another episode of the podcast and today is a special podcast, but we have a special guest, Betsy Kaplan, our good friend that we met at experience camps, but she's doing a lot of cool things lately and I respect the hell out of what she's doing. We'll get into all of that. She's leaving on her honeymoon in a couple of days. So we caught her at a great time. Betsy. Welcome to Elevationation, how's it going?

Betsy: Yay, I'm so excited to be here. It's going great. You definitely caught me at a right time. I feel like I'm starting to get the pre-honeymoon glow. So I'm excited to talk to you guys and I know we'll dive into grief, sweat and tears a little bit, but we just had our second ever event yesterday. So very fresh in my mind.

Sam Panitch: Betsy, you are one an incredible person. So I could care less if you were building things. I still wanted to talk to you, but not only are you an incredible person, you're just continuing to help make the world a better place. So I'm really excited to get into all that you are creating. And it's a lot. So before we do that, this is Elevation Nation. Obviously Parker and I know you pretty damn well and we love you and look up to you. But for everybody else, can we have a little elevator pitch? Who are you?

Betsy: Sure. Yeah, so I'm Betsy Kaplan. I am from the suburbs of Chicago. I grew up going to camp and so that kind of is the entryway to experience camps, but I've been living in New York for eight years now. I've been in the PR and marketing industry and I lost my dad to suicide in March of 2018. ⁓ since then and even prior to that I've always been super super passionate about mental health, awareness, support, you name it. Really been a part of my everyday purpose, I would say. And so when I got introduced to Experience Camps, which I'm sure most of your listeners know what Experience Camps is, but for those who don't, for any of new tune-ins, it is a non-profit, non- nonprofit organization for grieving children. So if kids have lost a parent, a sibling, a primary caregiver, they can come to camp for a week at no cost and just be a kid, have a good time, and also have a little grief therapy component sprinkled into it as well. ⁓ I'm gonna ramble and you can cut this down if you need to, but I actually grew up going to Lake of the Woods, which is the experience camps location in Michigan, which the three of us attend. And so being back at Lake of the Woods is such a special place and experience for me. My dad has been there. Like I said, I lost my dad in... 2018. My grandma's been there who I lost just a year prior to losing my dad who was a really big important person in my life. And yeah, I just I love community building. I love storytelling and I do coin myself as a master connector. I think just being in the PR industry, PR and communications, it's a part of the job and that's something that I really hold myself to a high standard of being that master connector.

Parker Yablon: Master connector master storyteller. I love that. Those are like two really important, you know things that you could you know have from camp ⁓ Experience camps is near and dear to Sam at my heart I mean we've only gone for two summers and all we do is talk about it all the time and whenever we're on a meeting with someone else we're like, ⁓ yeah, we Volunteer this place experiences like what and like we go on this rant. We're so excited. Obviously you get to work right next to my sister Colby on the whole thing, which is so fun and just an incredible experience for her. Betsy, how many years have you been in Experience Camps?

Betsy: This upcoming summer, 2026, will be my sixth summer. And then the past two summers I served as program director. So really leading the volunteer team, I will call it, to an incredible week. So managing 100 plus staff, most of which are grieving, and 200 plus grieving campers. So a lot of pre-camp work there, but it is extremely rewarding. This past summer I have officially retired from the program director title. but I am really hoping that I'm able to make it this year and coin my role as Boats. So if you need me, don't. I'll be wakeboarding on the lake and can support where needed, but that's a summer I'm looking forward to.

Sam Panitch: Betsy, I want to dive a little deeper into grief, something that we knew was going to happen and we all love. ⁓ For me, obviously people have heard my Experience Camp story and why I joined Parker and Miles and Colby and you now at Experience Camps, ⁓ having not gone through the same type of grief. but learn grief through different lens and how to support other people through it and Obviously you and Parker and Kolbs have gone through grief in a very different way So I want to talk about that word for a second when you hear that word What does that mean to you?

Betsy: I think grief. is very stigmatized these days and you know part of why I've really involved myself so heavily in the grief and mental health space is to try to destigmatize it a little bit. From my point of view when I hear grief I think of somebody that has gone through something really tragic in their life and stepping aside from grief and really going into loss which you know are essentially one in the same but they're a little bit different on the surface and when I you know not to jump ahead but diving into the grief, sweat and tears thing. You know, for us, it's it's if you've experienced loss, if you are grieving and we're not here to define what that looks like, think loss can mean the loss of somebody who's dead or it could mean the loss of a really special person in your life and they might still be alive or it could be the loss of a job or this really traumatic thing that happened in your life and you're just you're grieving. Grief is around us and I think we really do right now associate grief with true human death and of course that is something that I have unfortunately experienced very close to home but at the same time you know there's just there's no comparing.

Sam Panitch: glad you brought up ⁓ grief in other ways beyond just Death obviously that is the one that comes to so many people's minds and probably the majority but I think people don't realize that they feel that emotion of grief in so many other times in their life and They process it during those times and then obviously death brings it out in a much larger scale But they feel as though it's the first time they're experiencing it and when you really dig into grief I think you have that emotion or that combination of you know emotions many times throughout your life Like you said losing careers relationships moving getting out of childhood and becoming an adult and whatever that means to people obviously again not comparing the two they're very different, but I think it's good to slowly start to train people how to identify grief throughout their lives because As Parker likes to tell me inevitably we are going to have people we love die and so we have to prepare for that and I think learning that feeling of grief earlier on is a way to do that.

Parker Yablon: I think to your point, Sam, mean, prepare for that. For my own experience. I, 2023, we experienced a lot, Sam, right? Just a lot of death in myself. You know, my coworker was hit by a car and I was right there as the first responder. Our best friend, Miles, sister Hallie passed away. And then three months later, my stepdad, Philip, unexpectedly died. And so.

Betsy: For sure.

Parker Yablon: I wasn't prepared for any of that, even though to Sam's point, I had experienced that feeling of grief possibly before going from high school to the University of Maryland, from University of Maryland to my job in moving cities and lost some close family members along the way, but nothing like that. It was so dramatic. But there was something beautiful bringing it back to Experience Camps is being there, being in a place surrounded by other people. who are not in the same emotional state as you, because I don't think anyone could ever really be the same state as you, but have been through similar experiences of losing people that they love. it just, for me, changed such a perspective on life. And I mean, I want to talk a little bit more about experience camps now, Betsy, but what's some of the powerful lessons that you've learned from the magic? that is made at camp.

Betsy: I just think there's something to be said about being in a room full of people who just get it. And we don't have to wear these name tags. And I say this for grief, sweat, and tears as well. I'm not wearing a name tag that says, my dad Joel died by suicide. And here I am sharing my story. It's I know that I'm here with like-minded people who have had like-minded experiences. And that is so special. I always tell this story, especially when I'm interviewing potential new volunteers for camp. just camp is a lot. You can't sugarcoat it. You guys have been through it. We've all, we've seen some shit, we've heard some shit, whether it's at camp, outside of camp. Camp is heavy, but at the end of the day you have some of these campers walk off that bus, they look you in the eye, and they're like, my mama told me I have to be here. I don't want to be here. You see them first couple days at camp, they're not speaking. And on the last night of camp, they stand up in front of what, 150, 200 plus people and share their entire story. And the next day they're told they have to go home and they're hysterically crying because they don't want to leave. And that to me just sums up what camp is. The difference that we can make on these kids' lives, and honestly, selfishly for some of ourselves too, in just a week's time, not even a full week, is beyond belief.

Parker Yablon: It's incredible to see firsthand and I try to explain it to people. I'm like, you can't understand it unless you're there to see it. But what's also so impactful for me and through my own grief journey, Colby and I went on the year anniversary of Phillips death. And we were like, there's no other place we'd rather be, but we also have never been here before. But we know we're going to be around people who know how to handle something.

Betsy: You can't. I remember that.

Parker Yablon: around it and it was the kids that helped me the most, that helped it click in my head. I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, like you have a kid who's talking about, you know, some traumatic experience in their life and then three seconds later they're asking, hey, do wanna like go throw a baseball? And I'm like, huh, like the human mind is beautiful in that sense that we just talked about the craziest thing ever, the worst thing that ever happened and now you wanna go play.

Betsy: Hahaha

Parker Yablon: And it was like an incredible reminder for me about the beauty of life, the fragility of it too. But it was really camp that helped me take a step forward in my grief journey. Not only because I was surrounded by people who understood in a sense how I felt, but I learned that there was that community too. And I felt very isolated in that first year going through that journey because it can be very isolating. but to know that you're surrounded by such incredible adults, but also children is so freeing and so helpful. ⁓ And so my question, Betsy, back to you is, in terms of community, bringing people together, why is that so important in getting through whatever it is that you're trying to push through in that moment in time?

Betsy: It's really and I'm gonna speak selfishly at least for me, knowing that there's people that I can lean on. If I'm having a bad day, I know that this community understands. I think when you think of community, it's having that army of people behind you, no matter what you're going through in life. These are your people. And I think in the sense of camp, experience camps, I mean, if you're dedicating a week of your life to come to camp to help grieving children, you're a really, really good person. Whether it's somebody who has experienced loss directly, whether it's somebody who has experienced loss maybe a little bit more indirectly or has zero experience with loss and they're just showing up out of the goodness of their heart, those are people that I personally want to surround myself with. And I think as we get older, I'm turning 30 this year and I've noticed certain people kind of weeding out of my life a little bit and when... When you get older, when you enter these different life stages, it's time to essentially reevaluate, okay, what are my values? Are the people that I'm surrounding myself with aligning with those values or are they essentially bringing me down? And that's just a tough part of life, seeing friendships come and go. But when you insert yourself almost strategically into these kinds of communities, you know that this is, they're lifers almost.

Sam Panitch: I feel that sentiment very strongly. It is one of the reasons why I was so excited to just spend some time with you, Betsy, because we don't talk much besides the week at camp. But when I'm at camp, like you get the biggest hugs and I love you and I trust you and like you're just the best person. And I feel like that about so many of the adults as well that are at camp. ⁓ I want to talk for a minute about kind of where Parker is going with processing grief. We hit on the community piece, which I think is huge. bringing people together that understand, are empathetic and have shared energy is so important. And as Parker knows, Betsy may be new for you, I'm a new found hippie. ⁓ So I love woo woo shit now, that's my thing. And I believe that a lot of the energy that we ⁓ process at camp is released in very healthy ways. And you're doing something extremely similar with your new Are we calling it a nonprofit project side hustle? What are we officially calling it?

Betsy: It's a community, it's not a business, it's not a nonprofit. Who knows where this is gonna go, but right now it's a tight-knit community.

Sam Panitch: community. Beautiful. With grief, sweat and tears, this community, you are doing hard workouts together, processing your grief, which I think is so therapeutic to take those thoughts, those emotions, those feelings that bubble up and burn them out of your body in a very healthy way. So talk to me a little bit about that process of how you, I guess, came up with this concept. I know certainly where the grief comes from, but how did you think, all right, I love workout classes. How can I turn this into something productive? To me, it's like the perfect place to truly release grief.

Betsy: It's been, well first of all, thank you. It has been unbelievable. I, like I said, lost my dad to suicide in March of 2018, so we're coming up on eight years this March 15th we're actually having our third ever Grief, Sweat Tears class on March 15th to honor my dad Joel, which will be probably full of Pearl Jam music if you know that story. But for me, I lost my dad right after I had graduated college and I just moved to the city of New York and I was eating a lot and I just wasn't feeling myself. I slowly started to try to incorporate fitness back into my everyday lifestyle. It took a really really long time to get there. I was going to therapy twice a week actually to start right after my dad died and extremely helpful and I still see that therapist almost eight years later which is incredible but for me I needed something a little bit more on this grief journey, this journey that we call grief. And with camp, camp was filling that gap for me for a really long time. And it still does, right? It's such a fill your cup moment. It's really only one week out of the year. Of course, being program director, you get kind of that 360 or 365 experience when you're planning. But it's a quick release and reward, will call it. So being in PR and being in events and you know that master connector, master storyteller as I'm calling myself, I went to an event for a friend who runs a company called M.A.A. basically she invites people in the fashion industry. I'm not in the fashion industry. We just met through other events and she wanted to show me her space. But she connects people with brands and connects people with studios and fitness and all the things. I left that event and was like, ⁓ my god, this is amazing I in the last I would say three four years have really really upped my fitness journey I think it is such an amazing adjacent to talk therapy to just release and feel and get that serotonin boost But after leaving her class I was something just clicked for me and I was like, you know, I'm not program director anymore I've always wanted to do something here in New York. I have such a community of grieving people in New York work that we're just, you what are we going to do with that? And so I was taking a shower where all my best thoughts happen and all of sudden I was like sweating through grief. Like what, what is this? And then it came to me like grief, and tears. ⁓ my God. ⁓ my God. And, you know, to put it in chat GPT, it's such, it's such a good name. Sweating through grief would have been an interesting one. So I'm glad that I had the little brain fart of, my God, it's, it's here. But I threw it in chat GPT. made me

Sam Panitch: Which is a dope ass name, by the way. Like, that is such a good name.

Betsy: ugliest logo I've ever seen, but I was just so excited, so eager that I put it out into the world now. I think two weeks after I'd announced I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go into Canva and like make a really nice look out. So we have better branding now, but I literally thought of it in December of 2025. We had our first event in January of this year. And then just yesterday we had our second and our first event was 13 people, a very intimate Pilates class. And just yesterday we had a little over 30 people in attendance. And I just, I feel like we're gonna keep growing. It's such a beautiful thing to just as I said earlier, know that you're in this space of like-minded people, people who have experienced trauma, grief, loss, you name it, and not having to, again, wear that name tag and kind of shout from the rooftops, this is my story. And what we do after the workout class, it's nothing is formatted to talk about grief, it's really just partnering with these studios, they're hosting us, and we're, you know, doing their class format, but afterwards we give ourselves an hour, hour and a half to just be in this space together and talk. And it's not support group, it's not therapy, it's just we're here because we all know why we're here and we can talk about the people that we've lost, we can talk about the grieving that we've had during certain phases of our lives and just be present together.

Parker Yablon: It's very cool to see, first of all, your passion for it. Secondly, it come to life from a chat GBT shitty logo evolving into your 30 person class that unfortunately I couldn't make it to, but I will be at one soon, I promise. I know, I love Pearl Jam, so that's right there, easy. ⁓ But I'm curious. ⁓

Betsy: We've got to come to the next one.

Parker Yablon: How many of the people who attended, let's say yesterday, it was their first time sitting in a grief circle or a circle to talk about their grief? Because I remember that experience case was the first place I ever did that. I would never want to talk in front of more than two or three people about how I was feeling. And then I was like, ⁓ my gosh, I'm looking around. We're in a group of 25 people talking about the most vulnerable thing that I could talk about and. crying and this and letting that out. So I'm curious, of those people, how many people was it the first time and how did go?

Betsy: I don't have those stats. I truly wish I did, but I'm not gonna sit here and lie to you. But I will say, I think what's so special about this to kind of pivot from your question, but also stay on topic from it.

Parker Yablon: Yeah.

Betsy: is that, again, it's not guided conversation. And I think when you have, know, myself is really a plant and there's definitely people from the Experience Camps community who live in New York, who have also come to these events. And because we've been in those grief spaces for, you know, so, so many times and we feel super, super comfortable, it's me going up to a new face and saying, ⁓ my God, hi, I'm Betsy, remind me your name. Who died? Like who died in your life? And being that, blunt about it to the point where that person, you know, they're coming off a little shy and all of sudden you ask that question and they're like... sigh of relief, this is a safe space. She just asked me who died, who am I grieving, what's going on in my life? And it's being direct in a sense that it's comforting to a certain point where you're not, oh my God, when am gonna bring up my dead dad? Or are people gonna ask me about it? It's right off the bat and feeling comfortable. And when people go to sign up for a grief, sweat and tears class, I put together a Google form. Maybe it'll look prettier in the future, but for now, we're scrappy. And I ask a question I say one have you lost somebody close to in your life? Yes or no and to tell me the name of that person and tell me something about them and actually for the first class that we had because it was only 13 people I think my hand would have broke if I wrote 30 different notes but I wrote personalized handwritten notes to each person that came and acknowledged the person that they've lost and just basically said thank you so much for trusting the space and being here and I'm so excited for what's to come and I'm excited to learn about your mom Shelly, your dad Barry, whatever it may be. And so you know making people feel like they're in a personable experience is just beyond comforting and I've been on the other side of it so for me it's something that I want to emulate.

Parker Yablon: First of all, love the personal touch with the handwritten notes. That's something Sam and I have always leaned on. Handwritten letters are so much more meaningful than a text message, email, or, I'll see, in a case of phone call too, like there's something about holding something that someone wrote.

Betsy: Gotta do handwritten.

Parker Yablon: send it to me. To your other point, and now let Sam jump in, it's comforting to be able to have someone say, who died? And just get her out of the back, because I feel like people who haven't gone through that experience, it's kind of beat around the bush a little bit, or it's very uncomfortable. And then it makes you really uncomfortable, it puts you in space. So I mean, I love the way you break that down, is you're like, hey, let's just talk about it, and let's just get real. because this is what this space is about, authentic space to just talk and connect.

Betsy: Well, mean, Parker, as you know, there's nothing worse than hearing, I'm so sorry for your loss. And it's like, okay, thanks. So I think, you know, in these shared communities, we're again, we're all there for the same reason. It's let's just rip the bandaid off. Why do we even have to say, I'm so sorry? It's, you you tell me that your mom died and I say, that sucks. My dad died and here we are and we're. trying to not necessarily make light of a situation, but you know somebody, not somebody, I have multiple Instagram accounts, one including my dog and so you know as we're trying to build up momentum here I'm commenting from Cooper the Catan's Instagram account and I had posted this reel where it was you know working out with other grieving New Yorkers hits differently and I commented on it as my dog but again it was me saying goals Kind of because it's the same thing with camp, right? It's like this is such an amazing space to be in but god It sucks that we all have to be here in this way

Sam Panitch: It is hard because that energy that you get at camp and I imagine one of your events, which I cannot wait to come and join. There's an energy to your point that is so special that I wait a full year to feel that energy again and nothing I do gets close to that energy. And it's not always good energy, but it's emotional ups and downs of life energy that makes you feel alive. And to your point, Betsy, sure, you don't want to be in that world, of course. It is hard to grieve and to have experienced death. But when we are all together, there is something so very special about the energy in that room. And I think for Parker and myself, which we will talk to you more about afterwards, we have something that we're working on because we have been trying to create energy for people. And when we started Elevation Nation during COVID, This was how we were able to get our positive energy, our introspective energy out to the world. And you've inspired us to try to bring people together in person for the magic of interpersonal connections together in real life. And so I think you said that absolutely beautifully. I want to ask you about a concept of hanging in the darkness, right? Something that I think many of us maybe have felt with the concept of grief when we are grieving, feeling like we're in this dark place. And we like to get very tactical and tangible here on Elevation Nation. So I'm curious if you have one small piece of advice, action, tip that people who are maybe listening to this and grief is very fresh and new for them and they're not sure how to process, do you have one kind of baby step that they can take forward to help them with their grief?

Betsy: For me, it's always been writing. I find so much release in just putting pen to paper and even putting, you know, hand to keyboard, which it does hit differently, putting pen to paper. I recommend going that route. When my dad first died, I, and you can find it on media, I'm gonna leave a link. I don't know if you guys have ever read this, I'll have to link it to you, but I wrote a recount of everything that happened. My dad, as I mentioned a million times on this podcast, died by suicide and so there's so much that goes with that and the lead up to it all and my... My story was, I'll give you a little snippet of the actual day that it happened, ⁓ but I was at my first Broadway premiere. I was doing PR and marketing for Broadway shows. I had just graduated college a semester early. I was in New York. I was thriving. And all of a sudden I just kept getting these calls from my brother who was like, have you heard from dad today? And I had not heard from our dad today. And I didn't really worry. And then I started to worry and had to contact my uncle and my grandpa and all the different family members and there were you know rumors that he was flying to Denver for work that day and all these other things and at the end of the day we had my dad's friend go to his house to see if he was there and he found him in the basement and so I got that call I was at a work dinner I had to you know immediately leave of course and kind of get my shit together alert my brother alert my mother my parents were divorced it was just it was a lot ⁓ and It really all felt like it was on my plate because I was the most stable person in that moment outside of my incredible aunt and uncle who were helping from afar from LA. and I just had to take a beat and the first thing I remember doing after booking my flights, packing my bags, making sure I had contacts because in the Jewish community we move really, really freaking fast. But I whipped out my phone and I wrote a note in my phone and it was all these questions that I had around... Who's gonna walk me down the aisle? To who's gonna pay off this bill? What's gonna happen to the Xfinity account? Am I ever gonna be able to listen to Pearl Jam again? Can I watch This Is Us anymore with the whole dead dad storyline? That's what was going on. And so I think just allowing yourself even a moment to breathe and just exhale everything out, whether it's pen to paper, whether it's talking to somebody, just giving yourself that time and space. And then maybe years later you kind of regroup on it all and that's what I was able to do a few years later. I think it was the third death-aversary we like to call it of my dad is when I finally put it all together because Parker as you know I mean it happened so fast and it's just ⁓ my god okay this person's dead we gotta move. ⁓

Parker Yablon: Well, Betsy, thank you for sharing. ⁓ Just so vulnerable, especially on the podcast and it does move fast and you go into this like fire flight mode in a sense, at least from what I recall. It's weird. The whole experience is bizarre. It's like you can't believe it. You go through like all these different things and then like to your point in the Jewish community, everybody mobilizes so fast and then it's comforting.

Betsy: It's so weird.

Parker Yablon: in a sense and then it starts and like from there on, you're kind of all on your own to figure it out for yourself and whether it is writing, I will say for myself, the podcast has been an incredible outlet ⁓ and I think getting more in touch with yourself and your emotions and like you know when the feelings are coming in is, mean, I'm a more emotional guy, feel like, Sam's a pretty emotional guy. We still suppress it. And I've learned that suppressing it is not the way to go. And to your point about what you're doing with grease, sweat and tears and providing a space for people to release through physical exercise, maybe cry a little bit, be around others. It's, mean, from my own perspective, that is one of the ways that I've been able to release is running and working out and now it's basketball. But then to your other point about being with other people and listening and hearing. I mean, you mentioned Pearl Jam, music is my other way. And sometimes there's these songs and I always look at them so differently now. There's these songs and there's these few songs that were playing a lot in my life leading up and then somehow got played very recently after Philip died. And when those songs play, it's just like, That's a sign from somewhere that Parker, gotta feel what you need to feel. And that's always the reminder for me. ⁓ And so just thank you for being such an advocate for people like myself, but also so many other people out there who need to find new ways or a way to process. Because I think we're in a time where we maybe process things a little. Not the right way, AKA go to your phone, go to fast dopamine, fast hits of whatever it might be in the world, right? We have everything at our fingertips, but yet we feel less connected, less happy than ever before. So it's people like you who are making absolute change in the world. Which one is that?

Betsy: Thank you guys. I so appreciate that. And I will say on the music piece, that's been such a big part of my grief journey. I said in my note, Dave, my dad died. Am I ever going to listen to Pearl Jam again? And ever since it's been an absolute yes, I jump at every occasion to go to a concert, be in that space and feel very connected. That's the way that I feel connected to my dad. And there was actually a moment at camp this summer where I was sitting on the boat. The lake is my absolute happy place, especially the Lake of the Woods Lake because that's the lake I grew up on and a song like a stone by Audioslave came on and if you're a grunge junkie like my dad was and passed on to me, you know that there's overlap between people in Audioslave and in Pearl Jam and Audioslave is ⁓ led by Chris Cornell who also died by suicide and that song started playing on the boat and I just started crying and I was on the boat with campers and one other volunteer and it was such an emotional meaningful moment for me because I think in the program director role at camp it's a lot of go, go, organize, gotta make sure this is on time and there's really no space for grief. And so the past two summers being program director, it's always been more of a struggle. And honestly, the past four summers, cause I started as an associate director outside of my first summer, had been very, very hard to try to find moments for myself and moments to connect to my dad. And so when that happened, it was just like, ⁓ my God, I did it. And I'm sure you guys remember at the start of camp last summer, I went in with very clear intentions. I made a speech, I'm like, this is my last summer as program director. I'm here to do X, Y, Z. And one of those was really feel connection to my grief and to my dad and also just to the people around me and feel like I was also allowing myself to be in this grief space, this grief community. And so when that happened, it was just such a beautiful moment. So I wanted to share that based on your comment, Parker.

Sam Panitch: There are so many infinite moments like that at camp that I think we've experienced. I'm not going to go into all the ones that I have in my head. We've done countless experience camp recap episodes.

Parker Yablon: You mean the time when you had to unfreeze a block of ice with your body? Is that the one, Sam?

Sam Panitch: Yeah. And I did it and we won. Damn right. Of course I won. I won. I was wearing the dang bear suit. Sweatin'. ⁓

Betsy: I was gonna say, did you win?

Parker Yablon: He did win, but he was wearing that damn costume in like a hundred degrees.

Betsy: But that's the beauty of these communities is going from this really griefy moment to, my god, I'm body slamming a pack of ice, or I'm punching a bag right now. And then afterwards, I'm going to go talk to people about the loss in my life. And that's reality because she's

Sam Panitch: It is special.

Parker Yablon: Or dump ice cream on your head. Never forget that.

Betsy: Yeah, shit happens and we move on but we don't forget and everybody processes in different ways too, to your point earlier Parker.

Sam Panitch: It's so well said, so beautiful. I want to bring us, Betsy, into our next segment. We call it our rapid fire section. It's a couple quick hitting questions. We want to know the first thing that pops into your mind. So we love our friends at Lake of the Woods and Greenwoods. They're absolutely incredible. It's where we have experience camps in Michigan every year. We eat a lot of food there. A lot of camp classics, Betsy. What is your favorite camp meal?

Betsy: God, that's like the hardest question. Because I love Lake of the Woods so much. My favorite camp meal is actually the giant cookies. We're gonna go with the dessert.

Sam Panitch: Don't offend anybody here. Sounds delicious, maybe a little warm. Melty chocolate chips, sugar cookies, yum. Good call.

Betsy: the size of your face.

Parker Yablon: Wait, I never got a cookie I feel like that big.

Betsy: Those kids go nuts for those. I think we had them this past summer, but we hadn't had it in a while. They went away and we all fought it. We got to get the giant cookies. We need the cookies. ⁓

Parker Yablon: Maybe. Hmm. Well, we should bring that back for next year.

Sam Panitch: We need the cookies, man. Good answer.

Parker Yablon: I have a deep one. But it's like rapid fire, but it's like not okay. If you could go back and give that 22 23 year old girl Betsy who just went through a very traumatic experience advice, knowing what you know now, what would that advice be?

Betsy: Well, don't age me. I was 21. I graduated a semester early. So not to toot my own horn there at late June birthday. Anyway, advice I would give to myself. But you're gonna you're gonna find.

Parker Yablon: That's a young graduate of college. That way you didn't say that. There you go. ⁓

Betsy: a sense of healing and it's never going to get easier and it's never going to be okay but you will you will discover this army of people behind you and you will also be able to use the power of what you've gone through to help impact the lives of other people whether that's grieving children or hopefully through this new initiative called grief sweat and tears.

Sam Panitch: and through you sharing your story on the podcast. Having the bravery to come on and get vulnerable with us. I know you've done this.

Betsy: and the pod.

Sam Panitch: for so long. But I don't want just because you're good at it for you to think that it's not a big deal. Because it is. It's scary to open up and share your vulnerabilities and share your stories and share your traumas with the world. It took a very long time for Parker and I to get comfortable with it. And just because Betsy, you are a master storyteller does not mean that you still do not get credit for this. So thank you for coming on and sharing your story. ⁓ I'm going end with one more rapid fire here. We've talked a lot about music, something we absolutely love. I want to ask you, you mentioned a song that brought you to tears. What is a song that brings you just immense joy every time you hear it?

Betsy: Squirm by Dave Matthews Band. And that's all you need to know about me.

Sam Panitch: There you go. ⁓

Parker Yablon: Well, Sam, the way you worded that question, sometimes when you have a man's joy, you go back to tears. That's for me.

Sam Panitch: It's a good point. It's a really good point, Parker. That's because we're emotional, you know? Some people just dance and smile, not us. We dance, smile, and then cry.

Betsy: That's true. Hey, crying is a sign of, and I hate saying strong, especially in the context of grief, but I'm gonna use it.

Sam Panitch: You're allowed.

Parker Yablon: It is the absolute most important, one of the most important emotional things that we have, like that God gave us the ability to do, to heal as just beings. And yeah, I feel like we could talk a whole podcast on that alone. But we got one more question for you, Betsy. Wrap up the entire podcast. We ask every single person, over 250 people on the podcast. tens of thousands of people across the globe at our speaking events, what their mental motto is. That is a phrase, a quote, a slogan that you lead your life by. So Betsy, what is your mental motto?

Betsy: I'm actually gonna switch it up on you guys. ⁓

Parker Yablon: Whoa.

Betsy: My great grandfather, who really acted as a grandfather to me, always said not making a decision is a decision. And to me, that has really guided a lot of my decisions. But I think there's something to be said about being stumped and you're between do I do this or do I not? And when you're in that moment, you have your answer. And so I think it's really in line with trusting your gut is what I'll say.

Sam Panitch: a beautiful mental motto. And Betsy, just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart, beyond the podcast. Thank you for just being a great person. You were one of the first people I met when I came to camp and I was very, very nervous, not feeling like I fit in. And I believe when I said that to you, you gave me a hug and said, you are exactly where you need to be. And I don't know if I made that up or... I think you did. might have. think it's, think I, I'm pretty sure that you said that something similar or like, you know, you're going to be fine. You're needed here too. Something like that. and I just think, yeah, I was very anxious.

Betsy: You might have, but let's go with it, because it's really sweet.

Parker Yablon: Sounds cliche, but on brand or something. Yeah, I don't know.

Betsy: Wait, I do remember that, because you were anxious about the, you didn't have that direct experience to grief. And I don't know if I'm phrasing that the right way, but no, we desperately at camp need good centered people like yourself.

Sam Panitch: Yeah, I felt like a poser. I felt a little like a poser. Yeah. thank you. This was not a compliment for me. This was turning it on you saying thank you that you are an incredible human being and the fact that you built Experience Camp into what it is now. And with grief, sweat and tears, you are going to continue to impact so many lives. On behalf of myself, on behalf of Parker, on behalf of Elevation Nation, we are so honored to officially welcome you to our community, the nation, and we just can't wait to continue to support you on your incredible

Betsy: I'm always here.

Sam Panitch: Thank you for being here. We love you.

Betsy: Thank you guys so much. Love you guys. This was so amazing and I really appreciate you elevating me. And I'll elevate you right back. ⁓ say it again.

Sam Panitch: Until next week, elevation nation. Damn right. Until next.