Mike Rogers: And that's the list. 10 reasons, 2 episodes, 0 excuses. Here's the back 5. Get serve clarity and ditch the patty cake second serve. That alone might be the biggest jump from 3-5 to 4-0. Stop walking into the net like you own the place. Know whether you're the hunter or the hunted. Master the 3 returns off a weak second serve and you're playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers. Quick question before we get into it. The last time you got a short ball and came charging into the net, were you the hunter or were you the hunted? Because Peter Freeman has a very uncomfortable answer to that question and it's coming in about two minutes. Welcome back to Insider's Playbook. I'm Mike Rogers. We're going to go straight into part two with Peter Freeman, founder of Crunchtime Coaching, a USPTA elite professional and veteran coach. Start mixing doctor feel bad practices into your training because matches are designed to break your rhythm and you need to practice under that pressure. And in doubles, your number one job isn't playing well, it's making your partner feel like they can. So Peter's slice serve MD free quiz link is in the show notes. So get your free serve evaluation. Go check it out. specializing in players over 50. There's no reintroduction, no catching up, and no banter. We literally pick up at reason six of the 10 reasons, because that's where the recording starts, and honestly, Peter moves fast enough that you won't miss the small talk. If you haven't heard part one yet, reasons one through five, go find that episode first. It'll make more sense. But if you're already caught up, buckle in and let's get into it. And if you found both episodes helpful, please subscribe on YouTube or follow on your podcast platform of choice. It helps more than you think. I'm Mike Rogers, still technically a three five and still working on four. ⁓ now go out and hit some balls. So how about number six? Pete: All right. Okay, so number six is because of all this information out there, I find that a lot of seniors don't have serve clarity. Okay, and so they chase a lot of shiny objects and they're not really focused on the things that are really going to help them. develop a reliable serve. And I even watched the video today, Joel Drucker from tennisplayer.net, which I'm actually in, go read that. I'm in this month's serve thing. he was interviewing a ⁓ coach who used to coach Ronich. And as we know, Ronich has one of the best serves of all time. And he said, one of the first things that I will implement into my students is we must develop Mike Rogers: ⁓ great. Pete: a real second serve. Like that's number one focus. Okay, so be clear on that. First of all, you need to if you want to get to a four ⁓ you probably do need to ditch the patty cake second serve and develop a real second serve. That's maybe the biggest line of demarcation between three fives and four ohs. You start looking at four ⁓ serves, they look a lot better. Every now and then you'll find a four ⁓ who sneaks in with a Mike Rogers: Mm-hmm. Pete: with a frying pan patty cake second serve and they just figure out a way to just not get hurt by it and they have other tools that keep them in the game. But for the most part, a lot of people can't get to that next level with this tapping their serve and play. So you need a real second serve. The other thing that you need is with that second serve, what's a real second serve? You need spin. So there's three types of serves. So you need to decide what type of spin should I invest the most time in? Flat is flat, no spin. This game's not that complicated. Then you got kick, okay? And then you have slice. Now you decide between kick and slice. To me, slice serve all day. Because there's several things why I feel this. Number one, physicality, you need it on a kick serve. Can you get a kick serve by definition without a ton of physicality? Yes, you can. Mike Rogers: Right. Right. Yeah. Pete: Right. But I look at those as pinata serves, like they're just sitting up there waiting to be crushed. Most people who have a serve with kick that you're like, Whoa, that thing, like, I don't want to deal with that for two sets. They have physicality to them. Let's think about the best kick servers of all time. Pat Rafter. Look at that knee bend arch of the back Sam Stoser. Mike Rogers: Mm-hmm. Pete: Stefan Edberg, Boris Becker. Like if you're a fan of tennis, you have this image in your mind of how they get themselves into, right? Mike Rogers: And at our age, doing that reverse C is a little tougher. Pete: It hurts. I rarely will hit kick serves unless I am warmed up and playing for myself. And since I mostly make videos cold and have to do a lot of talking, I rarely even hit a kick serve on a video, number one, because I'm not ready to the kick serve. And number two is I don't believe it's worth the time of investment. Now, if you're out there and you're going, Pete, shut up, I got a great kick serve. I'm not talking to you, right? Keep your kicks up. I'm not trying to take things away from you guys. I'm trying to make life easier for you. yeah. And what I can do is without any warmup is I can just go grab a basket of balls beside me and start hitting slicers all over the box with a lot of action, a lot of speed. So what ingredients do you need to do that? Number one, you need the right grip. ⁓ Number two is you need Mike Rogers: add what's going to work quickly. Pete: Solid arm mechanics. You've got to have a good racket drop with your solid arm mechanics. You have to have a 360 with your shoulders, right? So study the throw. Learn how to throw. That's why I just made a course called Slice Serve MD. That's why I'm wearing this shirt. It's where I take you step by step on the arm mechanics. Because again, you have to break this thing down into bite-sized chunks, and then you stitch them together until it's a full thing. You don't need to be deciding between platform and pinpoint stance. Don't let somebody tell you there's more power in the legs than in the arm. The kinetic chain is important, yes, but trust me, this is the decider. If you do everything up in the kinetic chain right, and then you get up to your arm and you do it wrong, your serve still sucks. If you do everything right and you get up to your arm and everything is great, you've got a great serve, okay? Mike Rogers: Right. Pete: So this is a non-negotiable. And then you have to have feel. So you gotta feel what that feels like because once you start to feel what the slice serve feels like, then you're gonna have the confidence because once you develop the curse that a lot of people don't appreciate is once you develop the right grip and the right technique, there is no turning back. You cannot push your serve. When you decelerate with advanced technique, you start to play dreadful tennis. We've seen some of our pros happen. When Coco Gough was going through those serve yips at the US Open, Alexander Zarev, Sabalenka, you can see them decelerate. You can see the confidence leave the building and they cannot put that ball in play unless it's full acceleration. So once you adopt the advanced technique, You've got to work it to where you can feel what it feels like to really grab the strings of the ball and accelerate with confidence. If you can't feel that, it's going to be hard to trust acceleration. And then the final thing that you need is you need imagination. When I hit a slice serve, I try and create tornadoes above my head, right? When you see a serve move well on a slice serve, you see it curve like that. You see that. And if you feel it, Mike Rogers: I like that. Pete: then you can start to give yourself simple, manageable cues in a match that revolve around feel and imagination rather than technique. Because if you're giving yourself a bunch of technical cues as you're trying to serve at 30, 45, 6, this is where you're going to freeze up and double fault. So developing a clarity on your second serve and go, you know what? I just really need to have great arm mechanics. I need a slice serve. I get a slice serve all over the box. It's not physically demanding. And once I get the feel, I can really drive my opponents crazy from beginning to end. And when I'm in a pressure situation, what I'm asking myself to do is not that physically demanding. It's easy to do and it's effective on the other side of the net. Mike Rogers: I agree totally and trying to do that kick serve on the second and get the ball toss right and get brushing up on it. It's just so much harder to do than on the slice serve. And I loved your point about, you know, decelerating because teaching some of the beginners that I'm working with, I tell them the hardest thing you have to understand is that the harder you, you know, swing when you're serving, the more control you're going to have. and they don't understand. Pete: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It craves acceleration. Mike Rogers: Yeah. Well, cool. What is number seven? Pete: Okay, this is a big one. I think I might even give you an aha moment right here, okay? Most seniors unknowingly become the hunted and not the hunter in matches. And a lot of it comes from actually very generic, ⁓ not realistic coaching. I used to be very guilty of this. You know, when you, most coaches, look, I was pretty good, I wasn't great, but I was pretty good. And I was a very highly ranked junior player. played division one college tennis. I played number one for my college. And so when you get out as a young coach, you're like, okay, everybody needs to learn how to play real tennis. You you got a short ball, you crush it, you come in, you put away a volley. That's the way, that's what you do, right? And that's what, you normally would teach and you run drills. Here's a short ball, come on in, hit it, crush it, put the ball away, okay? Then you go, you watch your students play matches and the death trap is in mid court and volleys. How many points do you see lost with that? Especially when they're playing, let's talk, let's just break it down to singles, but it even happens if you're playing a counter punching doubles team. It's like the more you keep telling your, which would be something I would do as I was a younger coach, you know, ⁓ you're playing these pushers. You got to make them pay, man. You come to the net, you put it away. You're not going to be caught up and play their game. What are you doing? And then, and then if they can't win the match, you're just like, ⁓ they stink. Like they just, they just can't do it, you know, but it's hard to watch. It's hard. It's hard to think that you're coaching the right way. And then you keep seeing them lose over and over again, your players. Mike Rogers: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Pete: So what are you doing as a coach and what are you learning as a student? You're learning to become the target. That's what I mean by you're being hunted. Okay, especially if you're playing a counter puncher. Just let's break down the word counter puncher. What does that mean? I liked being punch hit me. I love being in the fight club and the more you hit me, I love this. So you're playing right into counter punchers hands by doing the traditional drills that you were taught, the traditional coaching, get a short ball, automatically come to the net, put the ball away. Well, they're like, ⁓ here you come again. I knew I gave you a shitty ball. knew it. In fact, I gave you a crappy ball on purpose. I know you're coming to the net. Because I want to, now I'm hunting you. Even though it doesn't feel like hunting because you feel like you're attacking, you're actually being hunted. And when you think about that, that's why I use that word hunting very carefully. Because when you think about hunters, what do they do? They run out around and like they're, no, they're quiet. They're in the, they're in camouflage. They're waiting patiently. They're bringing the, they're bringing the prey in. Mike Rogers: behind the grass. Pete: Right? They're not aggressively running around with tomahawks and right. So you need to think more like that when you're playing your matches, you need to make your opponent the target a lot more than you're doing. I'm not saying that's one of the things with online videos. Sometimes if you say one thing, they just think that I get so black and white, like you said that I shouldn't be mean. Don't come to the net on a short ball. I'm not saying that, but I'm saying be more careful. I am saying. Mike Rogers: you Pete: know your personnel who you're playing on the other side of the court and what would they rather you do right now, hit and come in or would they rather get the short ball where they got to come in and put away a volley? A lot of counter punchers, if you play the point and you bring them in when you got your opportunity versus coming in, they hate that. They're like, ⁓ now I'm a target. Now I'm going to get, like, I don't want to come to the net. I want you to come to the net. And you can do this in Mike Rogers: Right. Right. Pete: doubles as well. So mixing it up when you get that short ball, right? Just automatically hitting coming in like a robot. Sometimes, now this is one thing you can learn from Carlos Alcaraz in doubles. He sets that trap. Okay. I call it a chip trap. He'll hit the little drop shot. You come on in and then he passes or lobs you. Have you ever seen Carlos Alcaraz do Mike Rogers: Mm-hmm. Yep. I saw him do it against Seve Korter in singles yesterday. Pete: Yeah. And the pros do that all the time, more and more, because they are smart. They realize that, you know, if I just hit and come in every time, now I'm the target and the pro players are getting better and better at moving side to side and they've slowed the courts down and the players are more freak athletes than ever. So they know that, Hey, if I just keep coming in on every short ball, I'm going to get tattooed out here. I got to be more careful about when I come in. So now they've added another dimension. This is something you can learn about the singles game that will help you in doubles. They've added another dimension to tennis to where now every single player is becoming an expert at the drop shot when they get a short ball. They're just not blindly running to the net because why? They realize that if you're always the target, you're going to get lit up. So you have to be careful about when you become the target and when you make your opponent the target and you have a good mix of that and it's going to change from match to match, you're going to win. so much easier. Mike Rogers: I'm definitely going to try to do that. It's just being kind of more aware of that opponent and what they're doing to you and not reacting to it, but thinking about it. I know I played a guy that was pushing me around and I kept thinking I'm just going to hit harder and harder. And then I finally just started moon balling him and we might have 20 moon balls back and forth, but he was getting tired of it. So. Pete: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. 100%. Mike Rogers: How about number eight? Pete: Number eight, yeah, we're getting close. Seniors don't practice enough second serve domination, okay? And you only need three returns to master and dominate on second serves. And yes, even though you see a more advanced serve at 4.0, first of all, this is gonna get you from 3.5 to 4.0 so fast, right? Because 3.5s, Mike Rogers: Getting close. Okay. Pete: There's barely anybody with a great second serve. You might play, you might, of course you can always name a buddy who's got a great second serve at three, five. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I've done a lot of camps now guys. And one of the questions I ask at every camp is like, do you play people ever in your season where their second serve is very attackable? And the answer is most commonly like, ⁓ all the time, almost every match, right? I'll ask you, Mike, Mike, when you play, do you feel that a lot of people you play against their second serve is attackable? Mike Rogers: Holy, all the time. All the time. Pete: all the time. And again, talk about 10 cup. The number one 10 cup shot is this person's second serve is a joke. I should just be clobbering this all day long. And when you finally rip a couple, you're like, oh, found my timing now. This is what's going to be like the rest of the match. It might be like that for a couple of games. Then all of a sudden you get a little tight, you get a little nervous. It's hard. If you're playing doubles especially, it's hard to hit through two people when there's not many openings. Right? So you might be crushing some second serve returns. You win a couple of points. What's a couple of things going to happen? Number one, most likely you're going to start to make more unforced errors, give points right back that you just got. Number two is if you're playing somebody who has any kind of adaptation skills, even though they coughed up a couple of unforced errors or you hit a couple of winners, eventually they're going to get used to the new pace. And now it's not really giving you those returns of your investment of going for it that you got two games ago and now you're frustrated and you feel like you're in a stalemate again. So everybody here, even if you're playing big boy or big girl, three, four, ⁓ tennis, you should master a continental grip chip return on the second serve. And you should be able to do, and if you, this is one of things Or if you work hard at it, because I have people come out and they train with me. And if we work an hour or more, now again, it takes more reps before it works in matches. But usually within an hour or less even, I can get you feeling amazing on your chip short return that draws them in, makes them the target. Then once they start to cheat in, because like, I hate that this person, all they do is hit that little chip short return. So going to cheat in, I'm going take that away. Now you're playing chess, not checkers. But there's only three moves you need to win the chess match. Then you just push it deep at their feet. Now you trap, now they cough it up. Again, you could come in off that. Your partner's going to get a lot of good looks at the net because they're going to be scooping off their feet. Also, you're to get on four stairs. And then the third one is to chip right over the head, especially on big points. Because another thing that breaks down that most recreational players are terrible at is communication. You all barely talk to each other anyway in the entire match. Do think all of a sudden you're gonna have great communication, decision-making skills when you're both nervous at five, six, 30, 40? Lob right over down the line. Usually people don't shift right, get into a good defensive position. Boom, you and your partner have a great look at an overhead or a volley. You master those three looks, that's all you need. And you just rinse and repeat them and run them. And you just have to have that ability to be a little bit of a mind reader and go what they're expecting and then start to give them the opposite. And don't always overthink it. Sometimes it doesn't matter if they know exactly what you're going to do. Sometimes do it anyway until they've proven that they're on it and they're making you pay a couple of times and they look completely ready. you just get this feeling like, oh my God, they're going to start doing this all day long. then it's time to change. But if you're like, well, they know what I'm going to do, but you're still winning the points, keep doing it. You don't need to go to another shot. Mike Rogers: Right, exactly. I love the lob. If I'm the partner in the do side getting a serve, lob it over the net player's head. And then most of the time, ⁓ it's a backhand for the guy that's going to get it for the server. And if it bounces high enough, he's trying to hit a high backhand. And from the back of the court, you can't do it. Pete: Yeah, absolutely, 100%. Mike Rogers: Or I'm setting up my partner to get a nice mash. Excellent. Hey, I learned from some of the best. Pete: Yeah. You know what you're doing out there, Mike. You do, you do. Number nine, most players, and this is a huge one, because you think, I'm doing everything right. You only have doctor feel good practices. So what's a doctor feel good practice? Number one is the coach walking you through progressions, which is important. Doctor feel good practices don't think I'm taking away the value of them. Mike Rogers: You Pete: Okay, you need both. And I'm gonna tell you when you need more doctor feel bad, then doctor feel good practices. So doctor feel good practices are drills where you like hit a couple balls, come to net, put the volley away. If you're learning a new skill, the coach is taking you through progressions, gives you lots of repetition, lots of positive feedback. Let's do it till the shot feels good. You going out after a bad serving day and being a good student, you're like, I'm to go practice three baskets of serves because I'm not going to have that happen again. Now, again, that's all good. You should do that. There's a big benefit to that. However, if that's all you're doing, the matches feel completely different. Then doctor feel good. What's the best thing about Dr. Feel Good practices, the rhythm it gives you. And when you get a great rhythm, then you feel good. The ball feels good. You feel good about yourself. You start to go, I've got it. And then you get out in your matches and you're like, what happened? Yesterday I had this. It was easy. The coach was saying, I'm the greatest player ever. I'm the best student of their day. I had big smile on their face. And now, what is going on? Because it feels completely different. Why? Because matches are set up to break rhythm. Think about it. You have to go back to the fence and get the ball. You should be talking to your partner. Your opponent might not be ready, right? Most rallies are gonna end within four balls. This is all to break your rhythm. Think about, even though we make fun of Novak, think about what a super powered is. I don't think most people could do this. I don't think I could do it. Think it would drive me crazy. Novak can bounce the ball 20 times and put the ball up, serve it, and be in a beautiful rhythm. That's not easy to do, right? So what is a doctor feel bad practice, you might be asking. Mike Rogers: Yeah, how do you? Pete: You want to add time and tension and then put in a desired result that you really are trying to achieve. And that will build pressure, which you need to do. You need to also maybe add some little small punishments and not take it personally. So, yeah, one thing I've been doing lately. Mike Rogers: No pushups, please. Pete: What would be an example of a doctor feel bad practice? One thing I've been doing lately, I had a five old lady come like three weeks ago and she wanted to learn her volley and her chip, both of them. She's like, I know why I could be better than that. I love being at the baseline, but I'm not confident in my volley. And then like, I really don't know the chip shot. I just usually come over the ball, but I want to learn how to do that. Well, she was a really good player and she was a great student. So she was like a robot to me after a while. I'm like, oh my god. I can't teach you anything. Those are beautiful. mean, 80 in a row, just pssh, pssh, pssh. They're like, all right, that was Dr. Feelgood. Let's do Dr. Feelbad. Here's the rules. I'm going to feed you a ball. You either have to make one, two, or three, either a deep ball, a short ball, and a volley. OK? So deep ball, short ball, volley. That'd be if I call a three. If I call two, you gotta make a short ball and a volley. If I call one, you just gotta make your short ball. I'm feeding the ball in on a silver platter. The rules are if she makes it, she's up 15 love and has to wait 40 seconds before I feed her another ball. Every time regardless, you're waiting 40 seconds. Mike Rogers: Wow, okay. Pete: If she misses, she's down 15 love and had to run a lap around. Mike Rogers: Okay. Pete: She lost two games in a row. Mike Rogers: Wow. Pete: Right? She just was like a robot two seconds before, right? Cause I added time and tension and the more times she had to start thinking about it, but I just called one. Now I'm just like, ⁓ crap, I gotta come up and I gotta make this approach shot. But then a different pressure is three. Now she's like, ⁓ I gotta make three in a row. I could fall off the ladder at any time here. You know? So that is an example of a doctor feel bad practice and no adults that I know do it. Mike Rogers: Right. I was going to say, and I think a lot of adults, especially at least in my area, all we do is go out and play matches thinking that's practice. And it's not necessarily because you're not giving yourself time to actually work on some shots or some patterns or things like that. You're just playing all the time. Pete: Yeah. Right. Right. 100%. Yeah. Mike Rogers: So what would number 10, we're at number 10. Pete: ⁓ man, it's just gone so fast, so fun. ⁓ Okay. on how, the mistake is that people focus on how you feel about your game and your experience, which again is totally normal and natural. I I certainly, when I played, and most people who play tennis, you usually start out as a singles player. So everything's about you, you know. Mike Rogers: It's only been three hours. Pete: I hope I play good to get, hope my shots feel good, right? The real secret to winning doubles is how you can make your partner feel. That's because you need them, whether you feel like you're even with them, better than them or worse than them, you need them to feel comfortable on the court with you so that when big points happen, little points happen, they all count, they all add up, that they feel free and are having fun. Okay? It's a skill I've developed. One of the most embarrassing moments of my tennis life is at the end of my tennis career in college, my roommate who has like one of my best friends said, I didn't like playing doubles with you in college. It's like you were too intense. You should have seen that. I felt like I couldn't talk to you. Right? But I've, I've through coaching, I realized, ⁓ you know, you gotta really make your partner feel good. And last night I actually played pickleball, which was fun. Don't, don't hate on pickleball. Okay. We got, we, can't be the Hatfields and McCoys. You know, look, if it, if it involves a racket and a ball, I'm in, okay. Because of tennis, because of tennis, I love ping pong. Because of tennis, I love racquetball. Because of tennis, I love squash. Because of tennis, I even just love having a catch. Like, it's all tennis to me. And so... Mike Rogers: OK. As long as they don't take your cord away from you. Yeah. Pete: I know that's what, that's the thing. That's why, that's why, that's why it's there. But my point is, is I actually played pretty darn good pickleball last night. I was playing good. And one of the games I played with the weakest partner that was out there who was whenever he was teamed with somebody else, they barely won a point. Okay. When I played with them. To my credit, we had a great time. We had a great time. We lost to a pretty good team, 11-7. And there's no way we would have got to seven without him making a lot of shots. It wouldn't have mattered how good I played. I was going to play how I was going to play. But if I made him feel like, oh, you know, like this is intimidating. This guy is like better than me. And when I miss, he turns away and doesn't even look at me. doesn't talk to me. When I miss, he shakes his head. When he talks to me, he says, just make the ball. Right now, was like, ⁓ my God, like you're getting better. ⁓ what a shot. Like, yeah, you're on fire. Smiles, high fives. The guy played so good. Right? Because I learned that actually when I play with Mark, yeah, when I play with Mark Woodford, ⁓ a practice, a set at Newcombe's Ranch, I was so nervous. He was probably five, 10 levels better than me, 17 Grand Slam titles. Mike Rogers: You're both lifting each other up. Pete: How many levels better than that is it to me? I'm embarrassed to even try and do the calculation a lot better than me. So I'm thinking, oh, I hope I don't like suck out here. But within a game, I felt like me again, because he kept asking me what I want to do. He didn't tell me what to do. He kept asking, what do you like to do? And then every time I said what I like to do, he like said, that's great. Do that mate with a smile on his face. I'm like, ah, this is fun. This guy's not going to be judging me the whole match. I can just be me. where most of us were like match mode, like, okay, we're thinking about tonight before, I hope I play good, I hope my shot feel good, this and that. You're not thinking about how good am I gonna make my partner feel tomorrow? That should be your number one goal when you play doubles. Mike Rogers: And if both partners are doing that, you guys are just going to have a blast out there. And who knows what's going to happen because you're both feeling good. You're both lifting each other up. And and and I know because I played a. ⁓ Pete: 100 % Yeah. Yeah. Mike Rogers: eight five match and I was playing with a four or five guy and every time I missed there was a sigh and you know like what is this guy doing even my wife who was watching up on the hill she couldn't believe what was going on and finally I just said well screw him I'm just gonna play my game and I wound up hitting the winning shots and we wound up winning but I walked away saying never again never again am I gonna play with yeah so Pete Pete: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Never again, never again. Yeah. Mike Rogers: This has been great. And I see that you have something special for everybody that's ⁓ listening. Why don't you go ahead and explain that? ⁓ Pete: Yeah, so I made a video earlier in 2026 saying this is the only serve you need to focus on. And then we talked about it already, the slice serve. I want to give you guys serve clarity. So I have made a new slice serve course called Slice Serve MD. And I start you guys out by giving you a free slice serve quiz so that we can identify your number one Achilles heel together. and then fix that together. And that takes you through progressions to where you're going to master your arm mechanics, your feel and your imagination. And plus, since I have learned over the years from, I've been an online tennis instructor for probably close to 14 years now, I've learned that there is still a lot lost in translation. So I know a lot of you guys have courses that you've tried hard on, or they've just been collecting internet dust that you never really dived into, and so I also offer with this a free serve evaluation to where you can send me your serve and then I analyze it and I show you your number one Achilles heel and then I give you a drill to work on. And most of the time I'm able to just point out in the course because it is very thorough and it's really all you need. I'll just say, just focus on this video and this drill and then if you want, You can send me another video of your serve too and I'll take a look at that. Mike Rogers: Fantastic. Well, we will have the link to that also in the show notes so people can click on that and take advantage of that. And I really appreciate you doing that for everybody. Pete: Awesome. Mike. Just know I think you're a 4-0 and you're a champ. Mike Rogers: All right. Thank you. And I think I'm a 402, but then I wake up. Pete: That's funny.