Miriam Susan: You're listening to the Catholic Wives with Toxic In-Laws podcast. Today's episode is the conclusion of a series I've been doing this month and is titled Protecting Your Marriage from Toxic In-Law Intrusion. Hi, I'm Miriam Susan. Welcome to today's episode. This is, like I said in the intro, the final episode in this series I've been doing on emotional energy and how toxic in-laws really drain and kind of suck the life and the energy out of our marriage and of our families. And if you're listening to this and thinking, my in-laws don't really do that, well, then I would perhaps question whether your in-laws are really toxic. And if they're not, that's fantastic. And you don't need to be listening to my podcast. ⁓ But so many of us are dealing with these things and we are experiencing them. and yet we don't have a name for what it is or we kind of play it off as being normal or that's just how she is or that's just how they are or he is and ⁓ we just kind of give it a pass and we turn a blind eye without realizing the real damage that it can cause in our marriages. So before we get too far down into the content, I want to share our scripture reference for today. And it is from the book of Ephesians chapter five, verses 28 and 29. And this is from the New Revised Standard Version Catholic edition. And it says, "in the same way, husbands should love their wives as they do their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hates his own body, but he nourishes cares for it just as Christ does for the church." So the overarching, ⁓ know, 40-foot thousand view of today's episode is going to be all about how ⁓ marriages, especially a Catholic marriage, requires ⁓ nourishing and tender care. Just like the scriptures say ⁓ Ephesians how a husband should care for and nourish own body, he should do that for our marriages. And of course, it's not just our husbands, so we both have to do it. And it's not just love, and it's not just ⁓ finances, but it's also protection. Our marriage requires protection. So in family, and again, I forgot to create my sign. I really have got to make a note. ⁓ The symbol of Really what is my core message is the proper order of a Catholic family. And that is God first, God at the center, your spouse in that next ring outside of it. If you're managing a Target logo, your children in that next ring out or a bulls-eye logo, and then all the rest of your relationships, including those with your parents, your extended family now, they come outside. So when your extended family, or even any other outside forces start to intrude on your marriage emotionally, physically, or through demands on your husband's energy or your own, the marriage bond cannot be properly nourished. Even when you can't control your toxic in-laws behavior or immediately change your husband's loyalty patterns, What you can do is you can start recognizing what your marriage needs to thrive and advocating for the protection that your marriage deserves. So I want to walk you through a scenario that I went through when things were just really, intense ⁓ my in-laws. ⁓ that was that ⁓ stopped being truly honest ⁓ vulnerable with my husband because he didn't feel like a safe person anymore. Because at that time, it felt like his desires to make his parents happy, to do whatever he could to please them was far greater than his desire and his commitment to love me and to protect me and to nourish our relationship. So if you're in that space ⁓ ⁓ You have toxic in laws. Again, all of this really focuses around relationships where there is this toxic parent of your, you know, of you as adult children in the picture. We're not talking about parents who, you know, make mistakes every once in a while who are just human and, you know, sometimes they fly off the handle. Sometimes they do things that they shouldn't do and then they apologize. They ask for forgiveness and then they repent. That is a totally different podcast. That is not my podcast because I talk about specifically toxic dynamics. So if you are in that space, it is really important to to really recognize what is going on and to take some time and think about have I gotten to that point where I no longer feel safe being vulnerable. because my husband has demonstrated through choices he's made, through just the way he acts, that I am not as important to him as his parents are. So what does nourishing and caring mean in this context of a Catholic marriage when you have toxic in-laws? Well, marriage in general requires nourishing. which means active protection and care. If you think about nourishing plants in your garden. I am a amateur gardener. I fail a lot. Hopefully, hopefully this year, this year is going to be my year when I actually have a watermelon and a pumpkin. I'm claiming it now. Probably won't happen, but having plants in a garden requires effort. It requires me to go out and make sure that the squirrels aren't getting to my plants like they did last year and mowing them down. It requires that if we have a cold snap, I cover them up. It requires that I make sure that they get fed and they get watered and they're getting adequate sunshine. So our marriage requires similar kinds of nurturing. So when Ephesians tells husbands to nourish, and tenderly care for their wives, We're supposed to do that just as Christ loved the church. Christ nurtures, protects, cares for the church. So to nourish means to feed, to sustain, to provide is needed for ⁓ And then to tenderly care for something means to ⁓ it, to protect it, to keep it warm, to keep it safe. And like I said, it's not passive. You cannot protect and keep something warm in a passive way. Even if you have a security system, you still have to pay for monitoring. You still have to look and see what the notifications are when your camera turns on. This nourishing and tender care is active protection and cultivation. You want to cultivate a relationship and it takes work. It takes effort. It takes focus. Just like you can't nourish a plant if it's constantly being trampled, if squirrels are constantly coming and nibbling on its leaves like they do in my garden, drives me crazy, or like hornworms. I don't know if... If you're not a gardener, you won't understand, but there are these awful green caterpillars called hornworms and they will completely decimate a tomato plant like overnight. And it's really hard to nourish a tomato plant with hornworms that are actively trying to destroy it. And our toxic inlaws are like those hornworms and they will completely decimate our marriage if we don't pick them off and throw them to the chickens or get rid of them in some other way. You cannot nourish a marriage that is constantly being invaded by toxic influences, even if those toxic influences are your in-laws or your parents. So what damages our marriage bond? Like what prevents it from being nourished? So again, you can't... nourish what's constantly being trampled, constant communication that interrupts couple time and steals away your emotional energy, that damages the bond you have with your spouse. When we lived very close to my in-laws, there was a time that was just, it was truly hell on earth for our family. And During that time, my mother-in-law specifically would call my husband every single day and yell at him for two or three hours a day. Now, to put this into context, my husband was underemployed. He was picking up odd jobs from very kind and generous people at our church just to basically keep our family fed and housed, like the bare minimum. And we had five young children around 10 and under. Five. And we had this intrusion every single day of two to three hours during like the middle of the day when my husband could have been productive, when he could have been working on a business, when he could have been helping with the children, where his energy was completely turned away from our family. and on his mom because she demanded it. And when my husband would try to hang up the phone, end the call, she called him disrespectful, she flew off the handle. It was, like I said, was ⁓ hell for our family going through this time. And so we could not ⁓ or protect our family during this time because It was such a drain. It was such an emotional drain. So not only was it a time suck, but after my husband got off these phone calls, he felt like he had literally been punched in the stomach over and over and over again. And so he needed time to emotionally recover from these phone calls and could not function as a husband and a father. So if this kind of thing is happening to you, Your husband is, he literally will not have the emotional energy to be the husband and father that he needs to be. Now, another way that our toxic in-laws can damage this, this bond that we have in our marriage is when they are given information about our marriage, about our finances, about our parenting decisions, about conflicts, because that violates ⁓ the privacy needed for us to feel that intimate connection with our husbands. If we feel like our lives are just out there on the clothesline for everybody to see, anybody driving by can see our dirty laundry, that erodes trust. Because we feel like anything we share with our husband, anything that's going on behind closed doors is not. It's not behind closed doors because it's for everyone else to... ⁓ know about. And usually toxic in-laws, when they get this kind of information, they don't generally keep it to themselves. So then there's that that, you know, all of our personal private information is going to be spread around to the whole family. Another thing that damages this bond that we have and what prevents our marriage from being nourished is these expectations and demands from our toxic in laws that steal time and energy that belong inside our marriage. Again, that proper order of a Catholic family, when you have people that are putting themselves in a position of importance that is not theirs to take, theirs to be in, then all that energy is going to somebody else and not into your marriage, into your family. And then, Another thing that damages this bond is this feeling that you're never really alone as a couple. His parents are always kind of hovering nearby, like right over your shoulder, either physically or emotionally. And that is exhausting. It's exhausting and erodes trust. So you have this, all these scenarios that damage trust. And so get to where you're not sharing with your husband because you know it's not going to stay just between the two of you. And when you can't be vulnerable with each other, your intimacy dies. Because intimacy relies heavily on trust and trusting that you can be vulnerable and it not leave that relationship. So I want to shift and now talk about what sacred space looks like which is really the protection that our marriage needs. Remember, marriage is a sacrament. It is a sacred institution established by the church for its good, for our good. The church needs our marriages to be strong. And so this sacred space that needs to exist within a marriage not about shutting people out. It's about protecting what needs room grow. So just like in a garden, not ⁓ certain things together. I don't know if you know this, but you're not supposed to plant tomatoes and bell peppers. Do I know why? No, because I'm just an amateur gardener. ⁓ there are ⁓ to gardening in order to yield the best fruit. So if you don't understand those rules... you're not going to know what needs to be done in order for things to grow. And some of the boundaries that we need to have in our marriage to protect it and give it room to grow include information boundaries. You may have heard some things like, you know, they need to go on an information diet. And that means that some things stay between you and your husband only. Period. That's it. Like, I'm not going to plant my tomatoes with my bell peppers, period, because neither one of them are gonna grow. Okay? The second boundary that you might need to put into place is a time boundary. And that means protecting date nights, protecting your bedtime routines with your children, protecting family rituals. Maybe you just go to mass at the parish that you wanna go to. every Sunday. And we have to protect our calendar, our schedules family interference. We have to remember ⁓ focus is our families, our relationship with God first, yes, of course, ⁓ then with our spouse and with our children, which means sometimes relationships with other people suffer. But we have to nurture those primary relationships first. We made a covenant with our spouses in that sacrament of marriage that they would come first and that any children that were brought into the family would come next. And so sometimes you might not have as close of a relationship with your mom as you did before you got married, but that's normal. That's kind of how it's supposed to go. Now, if it's a good relationship with your parents, then that relationship does grow and it does get better and it does improve because there is an understanding of boundaries, like information boundaries, time boundaries, and then emotional boundaries. Emotional boundaries is when you process conflicts together before involving your parents. Now my mom is not a Christian. She's a fallen away Catholic. I would appreciate your prayers for her to come back to the church. But she was very wise when my husband and I were first married and she told me not to ever come to her to complain about my husband. Why? Because she knew that she would hold a grudge far longer than I would against my husband. So she's saying, she'd be upset ⁓ because I got upset, but she would be upset a whole lot longer after my and I forgave each other and made up. But she would still be holding onto that. And toxic in-laws can ⁓ use that in a different way, right? ⁓ They can ⁓ use that to ⁓ of drive a wedge. That's a very popular saying my mother-in-law. to drive a wedge between you and your husband. And what does a wedge do? It goes in and it splits apart. And so my mom, her, in the wisdom that God gave her, knew that it was not her place to be the person that I aired out all of my grievances against my husband with because she didn't want to damage that relationship with him. So. just a different perspective from toxic in-laws versus non-toxic in-laws, non-toxic adult parent, ⁓ adult child and parent relationships. Now, another boundary that you probably need to put into place for some sacred space for your family is a physical boundary. That means your home. And if you can't, if you're not in a place right now where you can live on your own, ⁓ for whatever reason you are living with your in-laws or with your parents, then your bedroom. That needs to be a physical boundary. Your parenting decisions. That's kind of, it can be a physical boundary in the sense that your parents and your in-laws should not be physically disciplining your children. So those are more boundaries that you need to have in place to have the sacred space for your marriage to grow and then mental space. I don't even know what this is like truly to have this mental space where I'm not constantly anticipating my in-laws' reactions, their opinions when my husband and are making decisions together or just going about our day-to-day lives. when we decide that we're gonna spend Christmas at home. The mental space is probably the hardest one, the hardest line to draw because it's right here. It never leaves. And it's been the hardest one for me to deal with and it's getting better. I mean, we're seven years, no contact. And, you know, we had our hearing last year and things have gotten better since then, but there are patterns that have been developed over 30 years. that make it very difficult to be in that state I am constantly having to think about what is their next move, what is their next play. And that is ⁓ very And it does ⁓ eat at that sacred space that we have ⁓ in marriage. ⁓ So teaching says that marriage as a sacrament requires exclusivity, devotion and protection, just like Christ nourishes the church. Just like we can't have any other gods. just the one true God. Our marriage can only have one human as the focus. That's our spouse. And then our children come outside of that. Now, this is all kind of depressing. It's kind of frustrating because it is so hard, but there is hope for rebuilding your marriage. Intimacy within the marriage requires privacy and safety from outside interferences. So if you have intimacy that has been damaged by interference, it does not heal instantly. You cannot erase five, 10, 15 plus years of damage in a weekend retreat. It just doesn't happen. It needs constant protection over time. So it's going to take time for this damage to be repaired. Just like any kind of wound, needs time to heal. Your marriage is going to need that time as well. And I'm sure there's some kind of formula where it's like if you've spent, you know, 15 years in this kind of toxic dynamic with your in-laws, it might take that long to heal. Hopefully not. We can always pray for things to heal more quickly and rejoice when it does, but These things take time to get established and ingrained into our families. And so it takes time to get rid of them as well. And you can't force your husband to create these boundaries. You can't. Otherwise then you're just being like his toxic parents. But what you can do is you can protect your own heart while you advocate for your marriage. Now sometimes you are the only one that sees the problem right now and that can feel extremely lonely. But recognizing that your marriage needs this is the first step. And you can't make progress towards a goal without taking that first step. Just like you can't make it to your final destination if you don't get in the car and turn it on. So you have to identify what's going on in order to begin that healing process. And again, it is slow, it can be painful, it can be frustrating, it can be, you know, one step forward and two steps back. You're just looking for little tiny bits of progress. The Catholic perspective on all of this is that our marriages mirror Christ and the Church, His relationship with the Church. And Christ did what he could and still continues through the Holy Spirit to protect and nourish and love the church. And that's what our marriages need as well. We need protection. We need a nourishing love for our relationships and our marriages and our families to grow. Now protecting sacred space might mean, chances are it will mean disappointing people who are used to unlimited access. Toxic people like unlimited access. They don't like to know that you're not going to go over to their house whenever they call. That you're not going to respond immediately to texts. That you're not going to show up at every family function just because you're somehow related by DNA or legally. But your marriage is worth protecting. So even though these people are going to be disappointed, even though you're going to feel like you're letting them down, That's not your job. Your job is not to make sure you don't let everybody else down when you're married. Your job is to have some space to rebuild and to nurture and to love your spouse and your family. So if the intimacy in your marriage feels damaged or distant, family interference is probably a bigger factor than you realized, especially again, if you have toxic in-laws or If toxic is too strong for you, which I get it, a lot of people don't like to use that word. My husband ⁓ not very fond of it until he came to the realization that ⁓ that his relationship with his parents were like a poison. It was like a poison to ⁓ us. You ⁓ maybe you just feel like they're just controlling or they're just ⁓ manipulative or they're just demanding. If your intimacy feels damaged, it's very likely something has to do with your in-laws influencing it. Now, the nourishing and the tender care that your marriage needs cannot happen in a space that is constantly being invaded. If you think about these poor families that are in war-torn areas. Their children probably have a really hard time feeling safe when there's explosions and gunshots going on all outside their home. And the same thing happens with us. We can't feel safe. We can't feel nurtured if there's a constant threat of something coming in and disrupting our family. Now, you're not wrong. for wanting your marriage to feel like it's actually yours. Just you and your husband. That's not wrong. That's not wrong. But yet so many of us feel like that. We feel like we're in a competition with our in-laws. We feel like, you know, ⁓ three-way relationship where it's ⁓ and your husband and his parents, or maybe one of his parents in particular. And you might be the only one who sees the need for protection right now. But your awareness of what is going on really, really matters. So I want you to think about, you know, what is one step, one area where your marriage needs more protection from intrusion that feels doable? Is it saying, you know, no phone calls after 7.30? Maybe no phone calls after dinner. Does that feel doable where you can talk to your husband and say, you know, I know you love your parents, but the time after dinner gets really chaotic because we've got to clean up the kitchen. The kids need baths. Homework needs to be finished. Maybe you need to prep for school tomorrow or you've got just bedtime stories and prayers and routines that your kids need for a sense of stability that when your in-laws call, it disrupts everything. Maybe it's that, or maybe it's a information boundary where you say, you know what, honey, I really don't want to share our financial information with your parents anymore. It's none of their business, but probably don't say that because it probably won't go over very well if that's something that your husband is used to doing. But find something that you can work on with your husband to set that line in the sand where it's like, no, this is where we're gonna hold back and not share everything with them because your marriage needs that. Your marriage needs that space so you can feel vulnerable, so you can feel safe, so that your marriage can grow. And if this has resonated with you today, I would really appreciate a rating, a review of the podcast so that other women who are going through very similar struggles, because there are thousands upon thousands of us all over the world that are dealing with this. Please do that. I would so appreciate it because it helps these platforms, know, YouTube or Spotify or wherever you're listening to know that this was helpful. And so by you helping the podcast, you're helping other women find this information. And then if you feel alone and isolated like you are in this weird competition that you never signed up to be in with your in-laws, I'd like to invite you to come join the Catholic Wives Plus Toxic In-Laws community at ToxicInLaws.com. No dash, just ToxicInLaws.com where we just have a free community where you can connect with other women who get it, who are in very similar situations, sometimes eerily so, because toxic people have patterns and they show up in a lot of the same ways. So I invite you to come to ToxicInLaws.com, join the community. There is a paid upgrade if you would like to go deeper into certain topics. I've covered legal protection, something that my husband and I have had to learn a whole lot about. There is information on boundaries, like we talked about today. There's information on self-care, on handling the holidays with toxic people. You know, we've got Easter coming up before too long, and you're probably already feeling some pressure from your in-laws to perform, to show up and be at things that maybe you'd rather opt out of. So... For all the information, that is part of the paid upgrade of the Catholic Wives Plus Toxic In-Laws Community, ⁓ the community is absolutely free and I would love for you to join it. God bless you. Go in peace.