speaker-0: The problems in this world can feel so heavy, so big, that you're left wondering, can my choices actually make a difference? Hi there, I'm Dr. Rock, a lifestyle medicine physician and host of The Health Feast, the podcast where health stops feeling like a chore and starts feeling like an abundant and joyful feast. Now if you care about the health of our population and the future of this planet, and I know listeners of this show certainly do, you've probably felt this inside of you. You look around, you see a chronic disease epidemic, a food system full of processed food, a planet that is struggling, and you ask yourself, what am I actually doing? Is anything having an impact? Does it even matter? Well, I'm here to tell you the answer is a resounding yes. And if you don't believe me, I've brought my good friend, Dr. Scott Stoll on today. Dr. Stoll is a former Olympic athlete turned physician who has dedicated more than 20 years to transforming human health through the power of plants. He's the co-founder of the Plantrition Project, which has united thousands of clinicians and change makers across the globe. around the transformative power of food and medicine. He's also one of the most gifted storytellers and orators in this space, the kind of person that makes you feel and think something at the same time. So by the end of today's conversation, you're gonna have a new way of seeing your impact that feels productive, that feels necessary, and that makes the burden of all these problems seem surmountable. And to do that, Scott and I talk about why health has gotten reduced to individual willpower and personal responsibility and what that framing has actually cost us. We talk about why community is the actual force multiplier. And Scott shares a patient story I haven't been able to stop thinking about since we recorded it. We talk about the power of the plate or POP, which is Scott's new conference in San Diego this May. where clinicians, changemakers, and health enthusiasts will be coming together, including this changemaker right here. Because when we come together, that becomes the force multiplier. So if you've ever questioned whether what you're doing actually is worth the effort, well, my friends, this episode is for you. Let's do the show. So I think I was really excited ⁓ To have this conversation with you, you know, at the end of the Plantrition Conference last year, you came up to me and we were talking on at the very end and you kind of looked at me and said, you know, we're running out of time. was this sort of look on your face. It was something to that effect. And I think a lot of people listening care deeply about health, about food, about our future, and they're overwhelmed, Scott. They feel this urgency and they also don't have a clarity around sort of how we proceed. And I think that can lead to paralysis and burnout. So Scott, when you look at where we are right now, what feels most urgent to you?

speaker-1: That's a great question. I think today, thanks to social media and so many other things, it's easy to look at the multiplicity of problems and feel overwhelmed. And I'm sure, you know, all of us and the people watching have felt that sense of like, gosh, where do I start? The problem feels so big. What can I do in my own life to make a difference? And maybe later we can talk about the size and scope of the problem. But I think something that I've learned through years working on projects or taking anything on is that, you know, we can see that through the broader lens, the bigger problem. But when you are trying to do something, the goal is to break it down into smaller chunks and then come to the conclusion of what can I actively do now to make a difference. And when we think broadly about, you know, climate, the you know, Earth's natural resources that are under duress, healthcare, our friends and family that are suffering from chronic diseases, a healthcare system that's burdened, financial issues, it can feel overwhelming. But through the years, and I know that you know this as well, the one element that all of us have control over every day that can change our lives individually. And when more of us begin making different choices with what we put on our plate, that collective choice of breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day has a more profound effect on our health, the Earth's resources, and global systems than we might realize. And so for me, that feels very solid and foundational, knowing that I can make a choice today about where I spend my money. the type of food that I purchase and how that money is serving regenerative agriculture, farm families, people that are stewarding the soil, knowing that food is going to go down into my body and touch every part of my cell physiology, enhancing my health and the health of my family. And that if I can begin educating one person, two people, three people, and helping them make a different choice in my very small sphere, I know I'm making a difference. And that feels very powerful to me and hopeful.

speaker-0: Yeah, I think a lot of people feel like that what they do on an individual level, ⁓ doesn't, maybe isn't making a difference or can't make a difference. The problems are so big, but I love how you're framing this, opportunity really. It's an opportunity each time we sit down and make a choice for food. The plate is not just food that it's almost this convergence point.

speaker-1: Yes, when we think about all the systems that are connected to that plate of food every single day, you know, that's when we begin to understand that all things are connected. Chief Seattle said all things are connected, just like the blood that unites us. We do not weave the web of life. We are merely a strand in it. And whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. And I would say we also do to our world. And so it's an empowering thought to think that it's not just me. Western civilization has made us think it's all about us. And we've lost the sense of this interconnectivity of life, that we're a part of an entire ecosystem that is the earth and a global population of living beings. And that whatever we do, we have this tremendous opportunity to operate in a mindset of hope. and power and gratitude by making the different choice about what we put on our plate every day. ⁓

speaker-0: Why do you think health gets framed almost entirely as a personal responsibility?

speaker-1: Again, as I've thought so much about this, Rock, there's a Western mindset that has been a part of Western civilization going back to Greece, which is the elevation of the individual and the loss of a sense of collectiveness and wholism. And that's been multiplied as we've moved into our society. When we think about marketing as all about the individual. The healthcare system is siloed and compartmentalized to make us think, you know, it's my health, my choice. When in reality, yes, it is our individual choices, but there are so many outside forces that are also a part of our individual choices. And we forget that our individual choices also impact everybody around us. I would love to bring that messaging back into healthcare. And that's one of the values I think that like group visits, right? We bring people together and help them realize like, Hey, we're in this together. I have the same thing you do and what can I learn from you and how can we go forward and change our lives collectively?

speaker-0: Yes, it's that shared human experience. You don't feel as alone. A lot of times when we have problems, we think we're the only one experiencing that problem.

speaker-1: it's because we're not having conversations at an authentic level to share, you know, like, Hey, Rock, I've been really struggling, you know, and this is what's going on in my life. And then from an empathic place saying, Hey, me too, what can we do together? And so, you know, I would love to see that sense of community and connectedness come back and healthcare. And that's one of the things I believe that the Whole Food Time-based Movement, Lifestyle Medicine Movement, can reintroduce into medicine, more than just the six pillars of lifestyle medicine, more than just, you know, the concept of changing your plate, but the reality and the opportunity to move through life as a empowered, empathic community.

speaker-0: Why do you think food is such a powerful entry point ⁓ for that?

speaker-1: Because food touches every part of our lives in ways that we can't even understand. When I first started this journey as a healthcare professional more than 20 years ago, you know, I was trying to help an individual patient who had cried out to me for help. And they simply asked her, you know, what does falling apart mean to you? And she shared with me that it was a marriage that was falling apart because her husband was exhausted from providing care. She couldn't travel to see their grandchildren. their finances were being affected, she couldn't attend church and social activities. And so I began to realize that, you know, the chronic disease was eroding the things that are most valuable to her, which is this essence of real life, it's relationships, hope, vision, the achievement of dreams. And so I started out trying to solve it as a scientist and as a clinician, you know. Even the writing of prescriptions for breakfast, lunch and dinner was the right solution. And I saw people making changes. But then I began to realize as I pulled on food in their lives, I began to share things like, you know, these processed foods, this sugar, the animal products, you know, and they're not healthy for you. And I encountered resistance and I said, well, why would they resist me? I even had a patient and you've had them to rock that said I would rather die than change my diet. And how is that possible? But I realized like this food and his belief system. Right? Yeah, that's exactly what they're choosing. And I realized a number of things, you know, through this journey that, you know, food is much more than just meals and tastes and pleasure. It's a connection into like everything that we value in life. It's history, it's tradition, it's culture, it's comfort, it's safety, it's security, it's relationships, it's connection, it's love, it's acceptance, it's coping mechanisms. I mean, it's tied to everything. It's efficiency. And so the beautiful opportunity is that when we begin introducing this gift and offering to people to begin changing their diet, When we come to them with the heart that says, see you, I hear you, I care about you, I know this is not gonna be easy, we're gonna pull on some things in your life that may feel very uncomfortable, but I wanna show you that your life can become more abundant in everyone as I walk this journey with you. And so in that way, I think it allows us the opportunity to magnify the quality of someone's life. and enhance the connection opportunities and relationships through this process of making a lifestyle change.

speaker-0: Yeah. You know, I'm just like, I'm a big smile on my face because as you're saying that I'm reminded, like, this is why I love what we do is that you get to, you get to be with someone on their journey. And it's not just their journey. Then like you see this ripple, you talk about it all the time. Like it reverberates in their family and then in their community. And, ⁓ I think that's where we're, we're headed, right? Why, why, why do you think? That, you know, community is really the multiplier that, you know, I don't have to do this alone. What have you seen change, Scott, when you see people stop trying to do this alone?

speaker-1: Well, I mean, first we have to recognize there is an epidemic of loneliness. In this world of all the connectedness of the social media, where people want to be viewed and liked, what are they really asking for? They want to be seen and loved. But we're misconstruing views and followers for community. But real community is when you are seen and loved and accepted. the busyness of our Western civilization, the isolation that we find in our jobs ⁓ has really led to this. And I also think there's ⁓ a lack of or a loss of kind of empathic understanding of relationships and appreciation for individuals. And so the fabric of connectedness and relationships has begun to fray and fragment. And so there's this epidemic of loneliness and we know that that causes a host of chronic diseases. But I think the opportunity in this kind of movement around food as medicine and lifestyle medicine is an invitation for people to connect into a community that really understands them. A community that can meet them at a kind, caring place of acceptance of where they are. and offer them a hopeful vision for the future. And when, you know, that's another, that's a power of community is to say, here's what's possible and I'm going to love you and help you to get there. And we know that, you know, from the functional MRI studies, when somebody begins to gather hope into their life, it turns on the orbital frontal cortex. And that cortex is involved in strategic planning, is involved in problem solving, is involved in ⁓ organizing solutions to overcome challenges. ⁓ it's, it's a hopeful future view for the future. And so hope is much more than just a word or a feeling. It really isn't, ⁓ a physiologic change in someone that allows them to see a different and brighter future. And that's another place where community can inspire and assist somebody in making a lifestyle change.

speaker-0: We can tap into that from each other, That shared hope that we have for humanity. Scott, when did you start seeing the plate more as nutrition? Or more than, I should say, more than nutrition.

speaker-1: you know, think that ⁓ through this process of doing, I do one week health immersions for whole foods and I've been doing them for 16 years, two to three times a year. And early on in that process, I was so excited about the science and teaching people the wonders of how food works in your body and what can happen to every system in the body when you began eating the right food, thinking that that would be enough to help them change. And I think began to realize that's not enough. And so that led me to begin recognizing the interconnectedness of the plate to psychology, to trauma in someone's life, to relationships, to the marketing in our culture. And then from there, began to open the aperture as we all have. I started, you know, I was planting my garden, having my children out there pulling weeds and harvesting food. And we were, you know, learning about what soil is and that it's a living organism in and of itself. And then you begin to think about, gosh, the rain that falls on my soil has some toxins or where did those toxins come from? And it's, you know, the simple curiosity of a six-year-old that asks curious questions. And then you begin starting to put the pieces together and you think, wow, like food is a much bigger component of all life on planet earth than we've ever recognized. And you know, there's 24 trillion pounds of food produced in the world. And that doesn't even include all the animal products. You know, there's trillions of fish, 2.2 trillion fish that are harvested from the oceans. So I mean, it's a massive component of the global ecosystem. And every time we pull on one of those threads, it affects the global ecosystem. ⁓ I'll quick aside, you know, my, my background was in musculoskeletal and regenerative medicine. And one of the things that I learned is I was trying to help people recover and regenerate their bodies in a musculoskeletal sense is that everything is connected from the tip of your big toe to the top of your head through these interconnected facial networks. Like it's not just that the knee and hip are independent joints, but they are fully connected. And so that interconnectedness and that thought of everything being one and when you pull in one area, you create dysfunction and the other began to also help me see this widespread net over the entire earth. It's like a spider web. And when you pull on any part of that system or you exploit or deplete any one of those systems, it has far ranging effects throughout the entire web. The whole web moves and it affects really the Earth that we're stewarding for the next generation.

speaker-0: That's a powerful way to think about it. Very powerful. I've never thought of, mean, I know the fascia layer that covers the entire musculature and everything in the body. We often think of problems as isolated. My knee is hurting. There must be something wrong with my knee, but what you're talking about is so much more powerful. Is that everything is just so interrelated, not just ⁓ in our body, but this analogy follows all through nature and all through our planet and you zoom out and everything is connected.

speaker-1: I think, some of this is just overcoming the philosophy of like Greek and Roman thought, ⁓ know, dualism, things are bipolar, it's either on off, it's black, white, it's compartmentalized, reduced, it's renal specialist, you know, it is a, you know, it's gastroenterology, it's, you know, I even had a partner one time that was, I had a patient that came to see me, she saw the hand surgeon. And she said, you know, doctor, my, elbow is also hurting. know you're an orthopedic surgeon said, no, I'm a hand surgeon. My work stops right here. She said, but it's right here and it's connected. He's like, I don't take care of the elbow. You'll have to go see the elbow specialist. ⁓ but that's, you know, I think that that philosophy has become a part of medicine where it's, you know, it's many, many independent silos that forget to think everything is connected.

speaker-0: Right. So this is why I think ⁓ a new paradigm is needed. new, and I would say a new type of gathering is needed because ⁓ we're not just talking about the food we eat, we're talking about culture. We're talking about changing the culture of our society. I want you to talk a little bit about, ⁓ you know, this new, ⁓ And what gaps you're trying to fill with this initiative.

speaker-1: Yeah, thank you, Rock, for just a little bit of history for people to understand the transition in 2013. 2012, I was sitting with my friend who helped me start the conference, it's Tom Dunham, and I said, you know, we really need to start a conference for healthcare professionals to help them learn the science of food for disease reversal and prevention, and to create an opportunity for people to come into relationship and connection and build a community. So we started that first conference in 2013, and that was the International Plant-Based Nutrition Healthcare Conference. And so that conference has grown and become a part of our lives. That's where we met. And so it has definitely developed community and friendships through the years. But as you know, I've evolved and began to see that, you know, the plate is connected to all of these other important ⁓ components of our world and recognizing that You know, the people that care about oceans, the people that care about agriculture, the people that care about culture and community are still operating in their own silos doing amazing work. ⁓ I thought, well, what we should do at the conference is just simply open up the aperture. So maintain the core education, healthcare professionals, because still, you know, there's 12 million physicians in the world and people want their doctor to talk to them about nutrition and health. And as you know, We're just not trained to do that. Less than 1 % of our total education time is lifestyle medicine or nutrition. None of that is really the valuable component that we need. So we still need to maintain the education of healthcare professionals, but we're opening the aperture to include, we've kind of highlighted six different elements of that plate, which is an outreach to these other non-government organizations, NGOs, not-for-profits. change makers and leaders around the world that want to come together as part of a global convening to talk about the opportunity around the palette to transform human health and transform the area of our planet. So the six are, you know, still talking about human health and healthcare, food systems and agriculture, culture and community, the talk about the environment, natural resources, food waste, packaging and tops. know, 40 % of the food that's produced is wasted and it contributes the equivalent of eight to 10 times the aviation sector's emissions into the atmosphere. And then oceans and waterways, you know, we are pulling 2.2 trillion fish out of the ocean every single year, which disrupts ⁓ vital ecosystem for the future. So if we can begin having the same conversation, in the same location every year. And people can begin to capture instead of a hopeless vision of the future, a hopeful vision that when we gather around an absolutely delicious nourishing rate of plants, change can be possible.

speaker-0: So I've been, yeah, so this is a, tell me this is an extension or a new iteration, I would say of the conference that you have been putting on for over 10 years now, right? When was the first Plant-Based Nutrition Conference, International Plant-Based Nutrition Conference? How long have you been doing that,

speaker-1: Yeah, we hosted our first conference in 2013 in Naples, Florida. We had 180 people from 12 countries and we survived the first year financially enough to make it a year two. So it was a great success.

speaker-0: So I got into the, the, uh, I remembered wanting to go in 2018. think it was in Southern California and like, I found out about it like two days before it was happening. That was the year I like discovered all this stuff, lifestyle medicine. And, I went in 2019 because it was in Oakland and I live in the Bay area and, and I was just so blown away. First of all, I have to say there, I think there were like a thousand people that year at that conference, people from all over the world. The first person I met was this Japanese gastroenterologist. I was like, where am I? This is so cool. I met people I still keep in touch with from then. I've gone to the conference multiple times since then. It is so refreshing and the energy there is so different than other conferences that I've been to. I don't know. The sense of community is like so strong. even when you just walk in, like I said, I walked in and I met this gastroenterologist from Japan. I had never been to this conference before. And then we just started having this very wonderful conversation and exchanging information. I'm like there for five minutes and now I have a new friend in Japan. Isn't that beautiful? And you know, there's so much hugging. I've never been to a conference for everyone. Well, the first reaction you have with everyone you see is to give them a hug. that doesn't, you go to like, you know, the American Academy of Pediatrics or wherever you go and they're shaking hands at.

speaker-1: Yeah, most, It's a vastly different environment for people that have not been to a traditional medical conference. You know, the antithesis of a traditional medical conference is, you know, now the power of the plate where it is about compassion and empathy, still maintaining the highest scientific rigor and evidence-based guidance and healthcare, but really, I think, appreciating the value of friendship, relationship, and understanding that community is what drives us forward.

speaker-0: What I love is that you're also pardon the pun, but you're widening the plate. You know, you're widening the circle. Because these conversations can often be fixated, even when they're about food, they can be fixated on health in our community. ⁓ And that is to say, it's a very narrow definition of health. It's like it's health at the individual level. And you are looking at health ⁓ at a much broader. view and in that sense, like, just like everything's interconnected, like all these people, there's a power to bringing people from different industries and different, who actually on a fundamental level have the same mission. Like they have the same purpose. They just maybe haven't had the opportunity to interact and have these conversations. I imagine that's a big impetus behind this.

speaker-1: Yeah, that's exactly right. There's so much value in having a conversation with somebody that is coming from a ⁓ different sector, has gathered a totally unique body of experience and information. And that collective sharing that happens at a conference like this can instantaneously stimulate new ideas and birth new concepts, books. centers, research papers. And that's what we've seen even at the International Plant-Based Nutrition and Healthcare Conference through the years. So many new things have been birthed as people sit around a table enjoying a meal and talking for an hour and a half. You know, at the last conference I sat with two people that were veterinarians working on plant-based diets for animals and sharing their experience. And I learned so much from these veterinarians because of So that's the beauty and the wonder of this opportunity that we have to gather with people from outside of our sphere sector, even the healthcare industry.

speaker-0: My dog is not fully plant-based, I will tell you, but he eats plant-based dog food and his favorite, probably more favorite treat, most favorite treat out of anything are cruciferous vegetables. Broccoli, cauliflower, kale, cabbage. He just can't get enough. And it's funny, he like, he will get a, and a carrot and he loves carrots. And he loves carrots anyway.

speaker-1: We've given our dogs the stem of the broccoli. call them broccoli bones.

speaker-0: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, love him, love him, love him. He guards it, like that's how much he loves it. He's like, he goes into the corner and he-

speaker-1: That's beautiful.

speaker-0: I want to go back to this idea of urgency and living with urgency, but also living with urgency without burning out. I think a lot of people look around and they're just sort of like, wow, this is a dumpster fire. This is a dumpster fire. And they throw their hands up. So what helps you stay grounded when the scale of the problem feels so overwhelming?

speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, the scale of the problem is it's massive. And, you know, it would be easy to get overwhelmed when we think, you know, how can I change healthcare? How can I change culture? How can I change the culture of fast food? I can't, you know. So part of it is recognizing what I can do and what I can't do. And, you know, I can't do any of those things. But then asking the question, what can I do? And coming from a place of, you know, starting this full journey of wanting to help the next person that I saw in my office restore their lost quality of life and realizing I'm surrounded by people every single day, whether it's the Uber driver that it's picking me up from the airport, the patient that I'm seeing in my office, a colleague that I'm meeting for the first time at a conference, ⁓ a family member. I have an opportunity to share. an incredibly hope-filled message and opportunity for people to change their lives. And so I simply lead with that idea that, you know, I can make a difference wherever I am every day, sharing the hope that is within me. Knowing that each of those people, if they grab ahold of it, will also be equally inspired. And collectively, this is not going to change in one year, five year, 10 years. I mean, it's... There's a lifetime of work for you and I, you know, we'll both be sitting here with gray hair 20 years from now, talking about all the good things that have changed, but we have a lot of work to do. But it's collectively you and I, all the attendees at this conference, all the attendees of ACLM, ⁓ International Conference Nutrition ⁓ with Neil Barnard, all of us beginning to work together collectively and collaboratively. changing individuals, and over time we can move the needle. Systems do change, we've seen that historically. It just takes decades to do that. ⁓ And so the other part of that is, you know, how do we avoid burnout? And that is being involved ⁓ in healthy, inspiring relationships, like you and I, conferences, but staying, being a part of a community that can get together. And when you're feeling low, because you know, the 12th patient in a row turned you down on an opportunity to change their diet, People can say, hey, that's okay. It's happened to me, but the next one may be the one that embraces.

speaker-0: Can we reflect on that for a moment? Sometimes I feel like, well, first of all, I tell all my patients about it now, even in encounters where I may not see them again, and it seems relevant because I look at it as informed consent, if they need to know about this. And what I've learned, and maybe you can reflect on this over the years, is that I have to ⁓ temper my enthusiasts. A little bit. because it is, it's a remarkable thing. Like with this way of eating, you can prevent and reverse most chronic diseases. And why wouldn't you want to do that? And why wouldn't you want to tell people about that? But I think for a lot of people, they can feel overwhelmed. and it's a big, and it's a big change for them. And you have a lot of your deck, you know, now decades of work. working with people making change. And so I would love for you to talk a little bit about, that, like how people make change and, and, and, and what you've learned over the course of your career.

speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, thank you, Rock. That's the core question because that is right. That's the watershed area between science and translation into a life changed. I we can be masters of the science of epigenetics and angiogenesis and endothelium and all these microbiome, but if somebody doesn't actually translate that into actionable choices on a daily basis, it doesn't mean anything. So your question is so relevant. And I imagine as I've been there as a clinician, you share it with so much enthusiasm and you see people close down, put up walls, say it's too hard, I can't do that. ⁓ And you just, in some ways you're you are asking the question like, why wouldn't you do this? And sometimes it's hard to not take it personally too. So guess some things that I've learned that I'll just share with you in the audience. ⁓ I guess one of the things that I've learned is that it's the power of the story is more powerful than any information that I could share with an individual. So early on in my career, I was so excited about the science, reading papers and learning, know, digging ever deeper into cellular biology and biochemistry that's changed and sharing that with people. And their eyes would glaze over and they would be overwhelmed and they wouldn't do anything. was teaching them a brand new language. They thought I was speaking Russian, but I was... So... ⁓

speaker-0: Thanks.

speaker-1: So pretty quickly I learned like that's not going to work and giving them more information and more papers and handouts and books is not going to change them. So, you know, it's just, I'm always tinkering probably like you are because you care about people and you want to figure out how to help them the best way. So I started sharing stories with people. ⁓ I would say to somebody, you know, I just had a patient two weeks ago who was just like you. And here's where they were in life. was their medical challenge and some of the other challenges that they faced. And here's what they did to transform themselves and here's the outcome. And so I'll give you an example I'm just remembering. So I had a patient that came to one of my immersions and she had active rheumatoid arthritis. you know, extreme synovitis in her fingers, every joint was inflamed. She couldn't close her hands. Started the week at the immersion and you know, we give them a really robust nutrient dense diet for the week. By the end of the week, all of her systemic inflammation had resolved. And I saw her at the end of the week. said, Dr. Stoll, look, I have no inflammation. My hands are pain free for the first time in years. She was thrilled. So I had a patient that came in to see me and these are sometimes the really difficult cases. This was a woman that was going through a horrific divorce. She and her son were living in a borrowed camper. They had very few financial resources. Her son was 19, somebody started them on Vicodin for pain and they showed it by my office and she has active RA, so much systemic inflammation, synovitis in her hands, can't work. And she says, what can I do? And.

speaker-0: You have a story for you.

speaker-1: So, know, part of my mind is there is no way I can solve these problems. She doesn't have financial resources. She has poor health insurance. ⁓ They live in a borrowed camper. Her son's on Vicodin. You know, what am I going to do? But I could share a story and I can give hope. And hope is powerful. Sometimes we forget how powerful that is in medicine. ⁓ In fact, in medicine, sometimes we are stealers of hope. I've had many patients that have come to see me and they've said, the doctor told me this is the worst case they've ever seen. It's never going to get better. And so it's no wonder patients are hopeless. And so this woman sitting there and she doesn't have any hope. But I said, you know, your story reminds me a little bit of this woman that came to my immersion. And they began to describe to her, you know, how she felt in the beginning of the week, how much pain she had that she wasn't able to work. And that by the end of the week, her inflammation was gone. And I just shared generally, you know, this it's eating plants. You know, it's packing your plate with plants every day, the darker the color, the better. And she said, well, I don't have a lot of money. I said, well, you know, where there's a will, there's a way. And I said, maybe you can look for food pantries or donations. And she was so inspired. And I also told her, by the way, I believe that this is the key to helping get your son off Vicodin. He shouldn't be on Vicodin. I believe that we can help him reduce his pain. I'll taper him off the Vicodin. as long as you guys are willing to make that dietary change. She grabbed the whole of that hope rock and she went out and I saw her back in a few weeks and she said, Dr. Sawyer won't believe how much better I'm doing. She showed me her hands and I said, how did she do this? She pulled out her phone and she started showing me the produce that was on the counter of this little tiny borrowed camper. I mean, they had one stove, a little tiny refrigerator. I said, where did you get the beautiful produce? And she said, I was so inspired. I knew I had to do this. My son and I drove around and we realized that this grocery store throws away their produce at two o'clock in the morning. So we started going to the dumpster at two o'clock every morning and we would pull out all this beautiful, beautiful produce, make smoothies. And she said, now my life has changed. And she went on to have enough strength and resiliency to overcome the the relational and financial challenges, she was able to get a job, but we got her son off I could and their lives were changed. So it was beyond my own personal resources, but hope, support, and some love were the essence of that lifestyle change.

speaker-0: feel I'm so filled just hearing that, you know, and actually I'm reminded of why, first of all, I was excited to have you on this conversation, but also why I love going to that conference. always tell everyone I'm with, I'm like opening night talk, Scott's talk. Like it's almost like, you know, you know, I know we're both good friends with Lori Marbus and she says it's like the Energizer bunny. Uh, you, you, go to a comp, you go to that conference and you just get recharged. And you're really, you're, you're tapping into that communal hope. You're tapping into the power of those stories and you do such an amazing job setting the tone and setting us on a wonderful journey for the weekend. And so I just want to, I want to acknowledge that.

speaker-1: Thank you. appreciate that. And we all need to be recharged. that conference recharges me for the year too. Life is not easy. There are always challenges, especially in healthcare. And we need opportunities to get together. I always tell people that I work very hard to curate their content for that conference. I speak to every speaker. I ask them to shape their content in a certain way. ⁓ the content's magnificent, like maybe even more important is that hug that we get the encouragement, hearing the stories, connecting with people, developing friendships. And that's what recharges our batteries for being.

speaker-0: Yes, yes, yes. And you know what I love, especially the last couple of years, ⁓ how much now, even before it was become this power plate conference, like how, how it's expanded, how they were, I bet so many people last year that were ⁓ not necessarily directly in healthcare, but had, they were in, they were entrepreneurs or they were, I bet someone who's an engineer who Had a very strong interest in working on this in his work. So I think that's only going to grow that sphere of influence. And so that's super exciting.

speaker-1: You know, we need people from every sector to have the same vision and hope and understanding to create that change in the tapestry of our culture. You know, it's not just healthcare, but it's healthcare working with everybody in the community, from local governments to faith leaders to agriculture and farmers and everybody in between, because that shared connection of work around this concept is the only way that we begin penetrating the culture enough to begin changing and creating systems that allow people to be able to step into that stream and flow through the change. And that's why I think it's really important that we open the aperture on this conference and invite people to come in and learn something new. And to connect you, for example, I invited a speaker from Stanford University, Dr. Desiree Laboud, and she is an infectious disease specialist, but also has taken an interest in plastics and microplastics in the food system. And she heads up the Stanford ⁓ study group on plastics. So I invited Desiree and she's coming and she is very excited to come to a conference and be a part of an entirely new group. of clinicians. And the fact she said, I was just thinking about, ⁓ beginning to study lifestyle medicine. And I think that's, ⁓ kind of personifies, you know, what the conference is about is reaching out to people that are thinking this direction, but maybe not have, have taken the leap yet and inviting them to come speak, to share their research and what they've learned with us, but also for us to be able to share what we've learned with her.

speaker-0: That's incredible. It's making me really excited. I want to echo what I heard you say, which is that your conference, the content is phenomenal. it's because it's so intentional. hear you have very intentional conversations with every speaker. I've heard that you sort of ⁓ ask for original presentations and information. I'm always blown away by the content. especially too. And it doesn't go obviously unnoticed at how exceptional it is. So I just want to tell you that.

speaker-1: Yeah, thank you. That's the our science brain loves that, right? I love to sit in there and learn new things from these people in different specialties, because it helps just further solidify that that plate of plants is more powerful and exciting than I ever imagined. You know, it's I'm a bit of a nerd, maybe like you and I just love like cell biochemistry and physiology and they're just learned that those, you know,

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: polyphenols or antioxidants or anthocyanins are influencing the, you know, some aspect of a system, whether it's, know, cert one or any of these, know, mTOR, you're like, wow, that too? That's what my mind always said. That's incredible.

speaker-0: That is cool. Yeah. And not everybody has to geek out on the science. Yeah. Yeah. But, ⁓ but, know, also I will say you're the talks are it presents science in such a way that it's so approachable and digestible. especially now that the tent is growing, like, I think, ⁓ you've probably had these conversations with your speakers, like to make it in a way that it's not just, it's useful for all the clinicians in the room, but it's useful for everyone.

speaker-1: That's right, because at the end of the day, we're not only clinicians, we're people. We're members of families, we have friends. And so we have to understand that in the broader context. And our patients are people. And we have to understand the challenges that they're facing and understand how to communicate this message in a way that is really meaningful to them.

speaker-0: Yeah. And, and, and do it in a way that, taps into the power of stories taps into our shared humanity taps into love and connection. These, ⁓ these are things you don't see at the American college of cardiology. No, not that, you know, talks on the newest, like, ⁓ cholesterol lowering therapy or not important. ⁓ But you know, anyway, they're not as good as whole food plant based.

speaker-1: That's right. You know that the healthcare system serves a purpose and is valuable and, know, and to its defense, it was created to be a reactive healthcare system, take care of trauma, acute disease, know, ⁓ urgent problems, life threatening issues. And it's done an amazing job of that. It was never designed to be proactive or promote health. And we see that through the, you know, the history of medical education. And so it's right now it's trying to do something that wasn't created to do nor trained to do. And it's struggling. And you know, it's just, it's not a condemnation of the system. It's just a recognition that the system is, you know, it's trying to be everything to everyone, but it can't.

speaker-0: Well, it's, it's a misnomer. I think a lot of times I say this now that our, our frustration would go away if we just started calling it what it is, which it's an illness care system. It's a sick care system and it's illness insurance, which if you're fortunate enough to have illness insurance, we should all have it because everyone is going to get sick at some point in our life. But, ⁓ my car insurance doesn't pay for oil changes or routine maintenance. It only pays for something when it goes wrong. It's accident insurance. That's exactly what our health insurance is too. And that's exactly what our health insurance or our health system really has become too. So when we talk about health, it's, it's very different. It's, it's actually focusing on, you know, the lives that people want to live, you know, how do they want to experience life? Not just the absence of disease. think our healthcare system, like the very best you can do. And actually it's not, it's not even good for the system. They don't even like to, to, to, to get rid of disease because they like to manage disease because if you get rid of disease, you're no longer consumer.

speaker-1: Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, in my immersions, I really try to help people see the bigger picture of even talking about lifestyle and diet change and whole food plant-based nutrition. And I tell them at the beginning of the week, we're going to dive deep into the science of nutrition and lifestyle, disease prevention, disease reversal. But I said, I want you to remember that this entire conversation, everything you learn, is really designed to help you live a more wonderful life. And that's really the essence of what healthcare should be. Not managing your blood pressure, not putting stints in because you have angina, not managing your cholesterol to prevent a heart attack. If it was really designed to help people live a more wonderful life and that was our overarching ⁓ value, then I think healthcare might trend in right direction.

speaker-0: Yeah, then we have a very different system, which is the system that we're trying to create. ⁓ Scott, I ask everyone a couple of questions, before we finish one is, what mindset, so you're coming to our, you're at our health feast, but see, we're having a big collective gathering and what mindset tip or life philosophy is Dr. Skoll bringing to the health feast right now?

speaker-1: I would say a few things that I've learned. You know, one, my Angelo said, I did then what I know how to do, but now that I know better, I do better. And there's so much wisdom in that statement for people. One, it's giving yourself grace and love to recognize that whatever I did in the past, I learned from a system. learned from my family. made choices and it's okay. I don't have to condemn myself. I don't have to judge myself. I don't have to ask questions. ⁓ I don't have to blame or shame. I just, it was what I did. But now that I'm learning something new, that's exciting. I'm just going to work to do better. And again, that takes out all of the striving for perfection. The black or white lines that have been drawn around this diet industry of I was successful, I failed, I did it perfectly, I did it imperfectly. And it allows flexibility, which builds resilience into a lifestyle. The flexibility to say, you know, I'm going to a Thanksgiving dinner. This is what I'm going to eat today with my family. And tomorrow I'm going to wake up and I'm going to have a smoothie and do better. You know, and just allowing the mind, the brain to have that level of flexibility makes something sustainable. We know from human psychology, the minute you tell your brain, I can't have that. I can't do that.

speaker-0: Hence, that you won.

speaker-1: Yeah, it's exactly what you want. And then the minute you do it, the whole negative cycle of conversation starts. You're not good enough. Something's wrong with you. You don't have enough real power, you know, and we fall back into this, negative cycle that perpetuates unhealthy choices. so just giving ourselves gracing forgiveness for the past to say it was what it was. I did my best with whatever it was. Now that I'm learning something new, I'm going to just to do better and it's just a process of doing better every day. And it goes back to what Po says, I love what Po says, that it's always back to the baseline. Whatever deviation we take, we simply go back to the baseline and we know that that's where I can restore kind of a foundation and some organization in my life and find health.

speaker-0: Totally. speaking on a personal level, Scott, how do you make your own life into a health feast and meaning something that's abundant, and joyous and shared?

speaker-1: I think, I think I would start with this. One is beginning to have a healthy relationship with myself really makes a big difference. Being authentic and real, understanding my own struggles and challenges and sharing those authentically with other people to develop healthy relationship with others that has built up open, honest communication. And it really begins, I think, with identity, knowing who I am. in this world, why I'm here, who I'm connected to. know, relationships are feeling hidden in plain sight oftentimes. And once I begin to appreciate and value myself, and I always tell people at the immersion, you know, the core of all of this is identity. Relationships are second, motivation is second. But once we begin to understand who we are, and we begin to tell ourselves, you know, I really love myself. no matter what's happened, traces I've made, I love myself. And then I teach them to say, I'm a very healthy person. And we begin to understand that simple core. I love myself. I'm a very healthy person. Then we begin out of that kind of blueprint to make different choices, to begin shaping the blueprint of our environment and our ecosystem, to create a kind of an architecture around us. that facilitates health. Our pantry looks different, our refrigerator looks different, our food choices look different. We show up to relationships in a different way that all of a sudden bears, have empathy for myself, I have empathy for the other person. And we're connecting on a deeper level and that's a relationship that can start to flourish, bringing healing to both people. And then that compassion that naturally springs out of that place begins to allow us to see other people, to see the world and to look through hope-filled eyes and say, gosh, I think I can help out there. I can make a difference there. I can give this from myself to this need. And it leads to a life of abundance in a brand new way.

speaker-0: You're so prolific. I always say that after I hear you speak. that something, ⁓ yeah, how did you, clearly you've cultivated that. I'm just curious if you talk about the role of your oration and storytelling and if that's something you intentionally nurtured and think about as you do this work.

speaker-1: Yeah. Thank you for that question, Rocky. Nobody's really ever asked me that question before. I just want to tell you, I really appreciate the way that you lead a conversation. You ask really deep probing questions and I think you draw out of speakers. You're certainly drawing out of me things that nobody's drawn on before. So I really want to appreciate that. are really gifted in this place. I appreciate that. To answer your question, I think some of it comes from a sincere compassion and desire to help people and always asking like, ⁓ how can I communicate this more effectively? How can I help them to see this in a brand new way? And being willing and open to take everything that I have and not marry any of my own ideas, but to throw out the ones that don't work, to modify the ones that are partially working, and to look for new ones that might be better. And then I have a naturally curious mind. Sometimes it's to my detriment. I have a thousand questions. I'm like, huh, I wonder. And so I have a lot of like partially finished projects and started things that I've started and I'll get to them someday. And then I have a very collaborative ⁓ spirit too. I love to find places where I can work together with people. And I think that opens up a lot more opportunities rather than just, know, like I think the business mindset of our world is, you know, ⁓ copyright trademark, you know, pyramid based though one person's at the top and we build something. ⁓ but it's really an inverted pyramid where it's a person at the bottom that finds every opportunity to collaborate and uplift everybody above them.

speaker-0: Yeah, definitely. And not the inverted food pyramid.

speaker-1: that's where you can have a whole other conversation.

speaker-0: Scott, if people want to ⁓ sign up for the conference, which you definitely should, ⁓ I will see you there. ⁓ How can they find out more and tell us more?

speaker-1: Yeah, thank you. First, I would love for everybody watching this to come to the conference, whether you're healthcare professional or not. ⁓ As Brock and I have been saying, this is a community and there is no more important time than this time in history for us to actually begin gathering together as I envision this to be a global convening to share love, support, ideas, ⁓ resources, collaborations. It's not just about information or continuing medical education. Gathering together as a community is, as I said to you, Rock, like it has to happen now. This is not something that we can wait on. We have to begin gathering and having a shared conversation. And so I have, I have ⁓ like a urgency in my spirit that this has, we have to begin. moving together. And so I would really encourage you, please come. mean, the information will change your life, but even more than that, the relationships will shift you from the inside out. ⁓ So you can gather more information about the conference, PlantritionProject.org or PowerOfThePlateConference.com. And we would absolutely love for you to be there.

speaker-0: It's in May, it's May 14th to the 17th.

speaker-1: Yes, May 14th through the 17th at the Lowe's Coronado Hotel, right in beautiful San Diego. So it's a great place to visit. It's right on the water so you can sit outside, have a cup of coffee or tea in the morning with a friend. yeah, and so please register and come join us. We'll have about 20 continuing medical education credits for healthcare professionals. And we serve three fantastic, delicious whole food plant-based meals, breakfast, lunch and dinner.

speaker-0: Every day. know. I don't think any conference gives you as much or as delicious food. think that I can say with enough certainty.

speaker-1: and that's what i was rated the cost

speaker-0: Well you might is the thing, cause you're walking a lot and you're eating low calorie dense food so you-

speaker-1: You work it healthier.

speaker-0: Po actually said, I mean, Po was able to come last year, which was amazing to the conference. he said, he said at the end, said his pain was better. His, mean, I'm, maybe I'm sharing it to you. He shares this like his bowel movements were regular. I mean, it's amazing just eating that way for even a few days can, can really, so if you're someone who's even thinking like, ⁓ I would love to experience like kind of an immersion. Like the conference can almost become like a mini immersion too.

speaker-1: Yes, that's right. We hosted several Native American tribes. We gave them a scholarship to come a couple of years ago and the chief's wife was there. She had a host of medical problems, but by the end she had to call her doctor and reduce her blood pressure medication. Her leg edema was better. Her energy was better. So you're right. It is like a mini immersion.

speaker-0: Love it. Oh my god. It's so it's gonna be a therapeutic conference as well. if you're listening. All right, Scott. This was so amazing. I'm so I'm so I'm so glad that we got to do this and I'm looking forward to seeing you in May and do a first film to the camera. Boom.

speaker-1: Awesome, Rob. Thank you. I am so grateful for this. I feel fulfilled and overflowing after our conversation.

speaker-0: That means a lot to me, man. Okay, so if everyone listening, we'll see you back here next time. Until then, live well and rock on.