Steve Lindsey: The Epstein files were supposed to bring clarity. Instead, they brought chaos. Millions of pages released late, redacted badly, and in some cases removed entirely. Victims names exposed, evidence mishandled, and a government scrambling to explain why 47,000 files suddenly disappeared. We're breaking down the facts, the fallout, and the conspiracy theories that grew out of that vacuum. And we're joined by an award-winning author who specializes in human trafficking to help us understand the system that Epstein exploited to not only newsworthy, to words and to question marks. Well, I love the bass in that new intro. Welcome in guys. Angie Van Sise, welcome back to the show. We are so honored to have you here today. Angie: Thank you very much. I'm honored to be here. Thanks for having me back. Steve Lindsey: Awesome. So normally our show is very PG-13. I think that tonight's episode will be the same, but we do have people who listen with their kids in the car. Although this isn't going to be a graphic show, the content within the show in and of itself can be disturbing. So I did want to put it out there. Very first, at the very beginning, parental. discretion is strongly advised. With that saying, ⁓ Angie, you recently said that you had a bad experience. We're glad that you persevered and decided to join us regardless. ⁓ As Jerry said in the teaser, we're talking about the Epstein files today and what we know and what we don't know and what all this means in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, I'm excited to get into it. I've wanted to do this for a while, but all these files coming out here recently, we kind of have to do it. Exactly. So let's just go ahead and get started. I'm going to just to understand the files and why they're important and who Jeffrey Epstein is. The one thing we don't want to do, and I mentioned it before we went on the air is we are not here tonight to sensationalize the files. Most certainly not to sensationalize Jeffrey Epstein. He's a despicable, deplorable human being. But we do have to understand them to understand how a system like this begins and works. So, Jeffrey Epstein did not come for money. He wasn't born into power and he never earned a degree from any of the schools he ever attended. But somehow he managed to climb from a working class apartment in Coney Island to the inner circles of Wall Street, politics and global wealth. He started in the halls of Dalton School, where a young man with no formal credentials found himself teaching children of New York's elite. From there, he moved into Bear Stearns, then launched his own financial firm, one that claimed to only serve billionaires. What made Epstein influential wasn't documented financial genius. It was the network he built, the mystique he cultivated. and the doors that opened mysteriously for him. Tonight, we're looking at how that rise happened, what we actually know, and how someone with so few qualifications became a figure with so much access and so many secrets. To understand how Epstein became Epstein, you have to look at the people who opened the doors for him because he didn't climb the ladder. He was ushered up the ladder. His first big break came from Donald Barr, the headmaster of the Dalton School who hired him to teach despite having no degree. This job for Epstein was not about teaching or education. It was about proximity. Suddenly Epstein was surrounded by the children of New York's wealthiest families. Then came the introduction that changed everything. A chance meeting that led him to meet Ace Greenberg, CEO of Bear Stearns. Greenberg brought him in to one of the most powerful banking systems on Wall Street, giving him instant credibility that he actually hadn't even earned. Inside Bear Stearns, senior partners took him under their wing. They opened their Rolodexes to all you young people. Rolodexes is a phone, basically with addresses and phone numbers. ⁓ Introduced him to high net worth, yes, yes, ⁓ high net worth. ⁓ Angie: you on a desk. Steve Lindsey: high net worth clients and helped him build the image of a financial wizard. And that's the pattern you see over and over with Jeffrey Epstein. People giving him the power and the access, giving him trust, giving him opportunities that didn't match his qualifications. Understanding who lifted him up isn't about evaluating him. It's about exposing the network that helped protect him, helped enable him. and ultimately allowed him to harm so many people. Yeah. Imagine this dude teaching your kids. Gosh. No, what he is now, this is definitely one of the reasons why we've chosen to homeschool our kids. But good choice. well, just the, mean, you hear about all the time with teachers. I think we being a teacher for a year, I saw some things that were weird. I think that the reportings we get of teachers having a relationship with students is very under reported. Angie: Yeah. Steve Lindsey: I feel like it happens all the time and it's just not caught. Wow. yeah, we'll get into kind of how Jeffrey Epstein got caught, I mean. Repeatedly. Jerry, what do we know about Jeffrey Epstein? too much and not enough at all at the same time, think. I want to cover a little bit more in the background. Sure, please do. ⁓ He should have been stopped so far earlier than he was. Back in 1996, young lady by the name of Maria Farmer reported to the FBI that Epstein had stolen naked photos she had of her underage siblings. I have no idea why she had naked photos of her underage siblings. She reported in 1996 that he had stolen photos of her naked underage sisters. It was a decade later before they began to investigate and do something about it. Ten years, ten years from the time that the FBI was first notified. That's a huge problem in and of itself. Today, I'm going to be covering. The first part of the Epstein files and what I'm gonna be covering is the facts, as Steve said, what we know, not the theories, the speculation. That's gonna be for Brett, Steve, and Angie. And when people talk about the Epstein files, we often imagine a single document. The client list is one that comes to mind. But in reality, the files themselves are a massive archive. It consists of court documents, deposition. evidence lists, flight logs, financial records, email, correspondence, investigative materials that came from multiple agencies over a period of many years. So that's what the Epstein files are. I think that's why there's not been a ton. I mean, there's been a lot that's come out, but I mean, I spent two and a half hours, I think I told you guys last week, two a half hours just looking through all references to pizza. You know what I mean? It just like, was one little aspect of it. There was like 900 files. Angie: Yeah. Steve Lindsey: And just going through that took over two hours. So to go through all three and a half million documents. Well, no one asked. I mean, there's organizations that has teams of people that they, you know, and the team may get through it, but one individual, would take you years to go through it. It took them years to build it. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's also important to talk about why these files were unsealed and made public. I say... Angie: We out. Steve Lindsey: make public even though there's a ton of it that's still redacted. In a speech at the Turning Point Action Convention in June of 2024 when he was still running for office, Donald Trump accused the Biden administration of keeping the list secret to protect pedophiles. Early in 2025, Donald Trump and his attorney general, Bondi, both said that the files were going to be released very shortly that year. In an interview with Fox News in February of 2025, Bondi was asked specifically about a client list. She said the files were sitting on her desk to be reviewed and would be released shortly. Seemingly inferring, although I want to make it clear she didn't specifically state, but with the question she was asked, she seemingly inferred that an actual client list existed was on her desk. No, that she didn't she say that it was like over 10,000 videos and images of like child porn basically. I would like to see part of that announcement was like I mean it seemed like there was a lot of stuff that they were looking through and then they released You know what they've released and it doesn't Well, I mean I mean makes sense but There should still be like a description of what the videos contain I think Because like right now we're looking at the three and a half million documents Angie: Mm-hmm. Steve Lindsey: And everybody's like, well, I mean, there's not like serious evidence to be, well, what about all those videos you were talking about? Like they haven't been released, but apparently there's a lot of evidence suggesting that this guy was, mean, if you look at all of his houses, they're all bugged. They all have hidden cameras. I know. We're getting into all that, but I just, just, I'm sorry. As someone who's kind of a neat freak when it comes to my desk, I can't imagine my desk piled with 10,000 anythings. Sorry. When she says it's sitting on my desk, just kind of makes me like, ⁓ why? Why would you put that on your desk? Sorry. Thumb drive. Yes. Right. But in my brain goes to a bunch of bunch of nevermind. Please continue Jerry. In July, 2025 last summer, the department of justice released a memo in which they concluded that no client list existed, that no credible evidence supporting claims that Epstein had blackmailed anyone much less prominent. Angie: Yeah. Yeah What? Steve Lindsey: powerful individuals and that his death was a suicide. They further stated that no further information would be released. Now isn't that a hell of a reversal from going back to when he was running to ⁓ repeatedly insisting that prior administrations had hidden the files to protect pedophiles to insisting that the files would be released to early in January, February, yes, they're going to be released. to suddenly, well, we've looked at it, there's nothing there. It's a hoax. Yeah. He repeatedly criticized what he called the Democrats Jeffrey Epstein hoax that was being perpetuated by, in his words, the lunatic left and the fake news in an attempt to distract from his political successes. His words, He continued to fight the release of the documents until it was obvious that Congress was going to force the release. November 19, 2025, Congress did just that. They passed the Epstein-Calls Transparency Act. By the way, that bill passed in the House, 427 to 1. The one that voted against it said that he was afraid there wasn't enough protections to protect the victims. That's the only person that voted against it. In the Senate, it passed unanimously. When's the last time you heard of any... Right. anything being passed on a basis like this. I do want to say, for the record, real quick, this is also a good example of how both Republican and Democrat in the American system can work together. Our Congressman, Thomas Massey, was the spearhead on this. And kudos to Thomas Massey and Ro Khanna, a Democrat, I believe, from California, ⁓ absolutely worked together to get this law passed. So kudos to both of those gentlemen for standing up for victims and for the people who are on the wrong side of the Epstein's box. And for being independent enough to not tow the party line and to say, folks, this is right. is important enough to make it We need more people in Congress to do that. Sorry. don't want to make it political, but those guys needed a shout By the way, when they passed this Epstein Files Transparency Act, it required the full release within 30 days. Trump signed the bill the following day, and by the way, ever since, has attempted to take credit for releasing the files in the first place. But as I said, the bill required full disclosure within 30 days. And then, that didn't happen. The Department of Justice claimed that they were still redacting the files to remove victims' personal information. child sexual abuse material, whether it's images or videos, as well as privileged information, which is the very things that the Transparency Act allowed to be withheld to be redacted. The act expressly prohibited redactions based on embarrassment, political sensitivity, or reputation harm to anyone. Now these files were released in batches. should have been released... The law passed on November 19th, 30 days, should have been December 19th. That didn't happen. They released in batches by March 5th, the sixth batch. The Department of Justice once again claimed that all files are now public. At that point, there were over three million pages of documents, over 2,000 videos, over 180,000 images that had been released for the tech nerds. That's over 300 gigabytes of data. It's gonna take a heck of a flash drive to even hold all of that. It's also, I think, important to consider the names that appear in the files. Not everyone named in the files are bad people. There's a lot of good people. There's a lot of innocent people. Epstein hobnobbed with the rich and powerful. If you were wealthy, if you were politician, anyone that Epstein thought might be able to curry favor with now or at some future time, you probably were in the files. He was either already hanging out and partying with you or was trying to get you to come so he could hopefully. curry favor from you in the future. Some of the names that appear in the file, they're accusers, survivors, witnesses. They're associates, people who interacted with Epstein socially as well as professionally. Employees, people mentioned in passing, people with no allegations against them at all. Some people seem to think that just because your name appears in the Epstein files means that you were guilty. were one of his co-conspirators. That's not the case. Angie: . Steve Lindsey: To be honest, I think that's Trump's problem. I think it's one of the biggest reasons why Trump has fought to release. In my opinion, that's all it is. I don't think Trump was guilty. I don't think he was partying with these underage girls. I could prove him what we wronged. There's no evidence that I've solved that leads me to believe that. But for some reason, Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths along with many other people. He's gone to extraordinary lengths to try to prevent the full disclosure of these files. I think it's because he- thinks that if it came out that his name was in the files, that he had any association with Epstein, that it would look very bad. And the point is, if you were rich and powerful, you were in the files. Especially from New York. ⁓ absolutely. And the fact that he came out and was like, well, there's no list, there's nothing to all this. All it does is make everybody think you're guilty. That's all you're doing. If there's nothing in the files, go ahead and release it. There's nothing to lose, but it Angie: I had somebody say to me one day that sort of interrupt, but this is also another take that I've never looked at before, but it was kind of interesting to me. ⁓ I was sharing something about our prime minister and one of my brother's old friends was not happy about that because he doesn't see the world the way I do. And he said something about, why aren't you posting about Trump? And I said, because everybody already hates Trump. I don't need to post about him. Steve Lindsey: No, no. Angie: He said, well, I can tell you this. If you have, I said, I have all the files. And he said, well, I can tell you this. If you have all those files and Trump doesn't appear in there as a pedophile, then it's all a lie. And I was all of a sudden going, holy shit, is that why Trump didn't release them? Because if Trump himself had released them, they're not the right files. He's not in there. So he's falsified those files. Right? Like I was just like, ⁓ okay. Well, that explains part of it. Steve Lindsey: Hahaha Angie: Right? I don't know, maybe. It was an interesting take. Steve Lindsey: Yeah, well, I think that, and I have people in my family that are the exact same or the exact opposite. And I think that you're going to get people on the far left or the far right that nothing is going to please them regardless. But the truth is always usually somewhere in the middle. And that's, you know, that's the thing. Trump, President Trump did no favors to himself by Angie: Yeah. Okay. Right. I agree. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: the way that this has been handled, especially after he had talked about it in his campaign that this was like, was going to release the FC files, right? And everybody's behind that. You know, everybody's behind protecting the borders and releasing the FC files. And for him to just come out and be like, Oh, there's nothing to it. That's not what you guys have been saying first off. now that yeah, it's furthermore, if that's what you truly believe, release the files and prove that you're right. There's nothing there. Sorry, Angie, go ahead. Angie: Yeah, that was part of his campaign. Like, yeah. Right. Totally agree. No, I totally agree. But that was just an interesting take, felt that, you know, maybe that was part of it. I really don't know. I'm not sure, but. Steve Lindsey: Yeah. I do. Well, that definitely could be like him just being fearful of, if it, like you were saying, if his name's in there at all, you know, him, cause he obviously did hang out with Epstein. Right. And so he's, I mean, I get that. I get that. He's probably scared that him just being there at all, it's going to, but he's going to think he's a pedophile, ⁓ yeah, I don't know. I just feel like you should have, and, you know, of all the presidents in the world, Trump has. Angie: Yeah. Hmm. Steve Lindsey: hamstringed his own presidency the most by not listening to his advisors. Cause I'm sure that there was an advisor somewhere saying, just put this out. Just, this is a single stroke of your pen on day one. And it just goes away. The easiest way is a politician or a Angie: Yeah. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: for anything to go away is to hit it head on and just go on about your day like it's nothing. If you make it something, it becomes something. And he made it something again, making it appear that he was doing everything in his power to prevent the release. Right, true. We talked about the redactions that the Transparency Act allowed and the ones that they prohibited. Seemed pretty cut and dry, but that hasn't exactly been the case. In a January 26 release, the files contained dozens of unredacted nude images of young women, some underage. A Wall Street Journal review found at least 43 victims names were exposed, including more than two dozen of those that were minors at the time. Home addresses were often included. Those, in my opinion, were honest mistakes. That's all it is in my opinion. They're hard to understand given the hundreds and hundreds of people that were assigned to review and redact the files and the three month delay from when they were legally required. But still, in my opinion, they were unintentional and likely honest mistakes. If only they were all that way. Now the transparency act required that all redactions be justified and published in the federal register. That hasn't happened. The Department of Justice reported that over 200,000 pages have been redacted or removed. Not a single one. have they given an explanation for it? Not a single one. Have they justified or published? That is not an honest mistake. I want to say real quick, as a shout out to our buddy Clay, because he would say this if I don't say it. If the DOJ, we did something against their wishes, they would have us so far under the jail, so fast, our heads would spin. But they get to choose to break the law because the law said 30 days. It's not it's not it said what could be redacted they didn't follow that it was very specific redact what you had to do to prove why you redacted it they didn't do that yeah so let's go on to some more things where they yeah decided to pick and choose what they were going which laws they were going to follow the Department of Justice initially identified six million pages that's potentially responsive to the Fc files transparency act they have released three and a half million and they say that they are complete Once again, representatives Thomas Massey and Ro Khanna, as well as the entire House Oversight Committee are currently demanding to know what happened to the other 2.5 million pages. That is not an honest mistake. After the Department of Justice announced that it would allow individual representatives to view files on the server, pressure once again from Thomas Massey on why certain names were redacted caused the Department of Justice to redact a few names, one of which was Les Wexner. a prominent businessman who has been cited in multiple FBI documents as a likely co-conspirator of Epstein's. Hiding the name of one of Epstein's co-conspirators certainly is not an honest mistake. In early March, 2026, journalists discovered that the Department of Justice had quietly removed 47,635 files. They had already released them. But somewhere along the line, some people said, well, Maybe part of this is stuff we don't want out. So they simply took it off. They didn't even bother to renumber. It was obvious that the files were gone. The CBS News and Wall Street Journal noticed that the total page count had dropped by more than 65,000 pages. Some news organizations reported that part of the removed files included allegations against Trump himself. The Department of Justice did not cite that as the reason for removal when confronted. They said that the files had been taken down because they contain unredacted survivor information and needed further review. Even though keep in mind, they had originally published the files. They had not told anyone they were being taken down. They didn't put anything back up until they were caught. Most of the files have since been restored. This obviously isn't even in the realm of an honest mistake. Now, guys, we've talked about, we cover a lot of different conspiracy theories on this show. We've often said that conspiracy theories often start when the government isn't forthcoming, when they're not transparent, when they're not honest in what they're telling us. Given the delays, the redaction issues, the missing files, the unexplained discrepancies, and the quiet removal of tens of thousands of documents, it's got to be surprising to absolutely no one in the entire world that the Epstein files have generated more conspiracy theories than almost anything in recent memory. Brett, think you're going to tell us about some of them. Here's the thing. I want to, I want to bring this up real quick. Back to what you were saying. When Donald Trump was elected the first time, he hired a lot of people what from within what people would deem the deep state in his first ⁓ term in office. This time he brought in people from outside. He brought in Cash Patel. He brought in Pambon. He brought in people like Dan Bongino and these people were supposed to go in and not only drain the swamp, but to blow the swamp's dam right out of the water and force these people out. He went in with a mandate to release these files, to do the things, the border protection. went in and I'm not trying to make this about Trump, but unfortunately, President Trump made this about himself. when he fought Thomas Massey tooth and nail to get this. He came to Kentucky last Wednesday to campaign against Thomas Massey in part because Massey did not go along with the narrative about the Epstein fight. That's a huge point. And quite frankly, I think that needs to be stated. Thomas Massey, even with my own, some of my own family members have gotten, has gotten such a bad rap. because he's gone against President Trump even when he's been right and can prove it on paper. Now, some of these people that we're talking about specifically, I don't know a whole lot about. Don't know a whole lot about Pam Bondi or her past or her history. I'm gonna take the president's word when he announces her to be his attorney general. Cash Patel was an outsider who had every... Interview that he'd done prior to becoming the director of the FBI said day one I'm releasing the files day two We're gonna find out who killed Kennedy day three. He was going to blow it up and He did nothing and he has done nothing and unfortunately during the Charlie Kirk assassination Was terrible as the leader of the FBI early information that was incorrect trying to grandstand on things that he didn't have factual proof on. He brought in Dan Bongino, who was a podcaster who I used to respect, who I used to ⁓ listen to and brought him in, got him in the loop. And then Bongino finally had enough quit and then came back and called us because we had, how dare us question him and the rest of the FBI and call us a bunch of grifters. absolutely don't understand what in the world is going on in those in the the in the political realm there but it is definitely in my opinion designed to protect someone something and i'm sure brett you're going to get into that angie you were going to say something Angie: ⁓ no, I was just agreeing with you, with Dan Bongino. Steve Lindsey: ⁓ sorry. I used to respect Dan. I liked his opinion. I valued it. I listened to it. I researched what he said. And a lot of times what he said was accurate. ⁓ But when you come back and you say that because we've been out here doing the same thing, we've been doing the grind and you call us grifters and nobodies and hacks because we question you. This is America. We have the absolute right to question anybody and everybody. In fact, it's not a right. Angie: Yeah. same. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: it is our job and our our mandate that we do that. Anywho, and that's why we come up. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Until we begin to be directed towards him. Exactly. Anywho, Brett, tell us, tell us that there's some, tell us about all the stuff that makes sense in the real world. Yeah. So I think one of you mentioned it, but Angie: And didn't he push that? He pushed that even on his show. Right. Steve Lindsey: There's so many conspiracy theories surrounding Jeffrey Epstein that there's no way we can cover it all, at least not, not well. So I just wanted to cover. I was just going to say there's a couple that are very big that have just recently came out in the files that we are going in. Angie, you're welcome to come back for this. Cause I know that one of these is dear to your heart. ⁓ we are going to do an entire show at the end of the month involving pizza game. ⁓ we believe that that has. Angie: ⁓ mm. Steve Lindsey: elevated itself that it does deserve us talking. We're not going to spend a lot of time on it tonight. Um, I don't think right now. Yeah. Uh, because we've decided that that in and of itself is going to be its entire own show. Yeah. There's just so much to it, especially after the fight, like I was saying, two and a half hours and I still didn't get through all them. Yeah. so pizza, gay way, way, fair, those kinds of things. We're going to put all them in one show upcoming. So Brett doesn't touch on that tonight. Don't hate on Brett. It's coming. Very soon. I just want to break that. I think this all started with Epstein's suicide, right? Like that's when the conspiracy started to kind of snowball. ⁓ So there's a couple of things. So the original consensus is that Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide, that he had hung himself with some extra sheets that were, shouldn't have been in his room. And from what, whether you believe that he committed suicide or not, I think both sides acknowledge that this was just a ⁓ storm of failures across the board as far as, you know, the, guards and I'm to get into all that, but yeah. You want to say something? I am. I just want to know how a grown ass man can hang himself from the top bunk of a bunk bed. It just doesn't make a lot. That is a horrible way to go. I'm just saying. Anyway, we'll get into it, I'm sure. Angie: The other thing is, I don't know if you saw the recent Jimmy Dore show, but apparently Jeffrey Epstein did not have a prostate. But in the autopsy report, the gentleman that they worked on had some enlarged prostate. Steve Lindsey: ⁓ wow. Yeah. Some of those pictures do not look like Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah. Right. So, ⁓ so Jeffrey Epstein, his brother, it basically saw the same things that we're all seeing. Right. So he actually had a, another autopsy performed by a man named Dr. Michael Baden. ⁓ he performed an autopsy. Angie: Hmm. So I didn't know they grew back. Steve Lindsey: And he said that the neck injuries suggested that he was strangled and he didn't die from hanging. That's probably the biggest piece of evidence that we have so far. Another thing, the prison security failures that happened. So ⁓ there was no cellmate with him at the time, despite the psychology department at the facility stating that he needed to be housed, quote, needs to be housed with an appropriate cellmate. ⁓ Angie: Mm. Steve Lindsey: That was not. I think they also had a policy that stipulated if you've been on suicide watch for a certain amount of time, you were not allowed to be by yourself. You had to have a cellmate. Right. This was against the jail zone policy. Yeah. And within the cellmate was removed, I think the same day or the day before. So yeah, that's the first thing. There was no rounds or inmate counts throughout the entire night. that ⁓ the night before Jeffrey Epstein's body was found. So starting from about 10.40 PM, August 9th until the body was found about 6.30, August 10th, ⁓ there was no rounds or inmate counts performed when there should have been. There was some records, but the guards all admitted to falsifying those records. ⁓ Like I mentioned earlier, his cell contained excess blankets and linens and rip sheets. ⁓ that weren't discovered until his body was found in the morning. Those all should have been, ⁓ should have been taken from him. That's not something that should be allowed. In most jails, you're not even allowed shoe strings because of that. So again, and this is what is building this conspiracy. And I really hate the, whole, ⁓ stigma with, with conspiracies like, it's just a bunch of coops. mean, this is all stuff that has been. admitted has been proven and I mean, yes, there's just such thing as a coincidence, but when you start stacking up all these things on top of each other, it's, it seems like it's very hard to explain away. But, Cash Peltel, Cash Patel and Dan Bongino said there's no way that he committed murder or suicide. Well, we'll keep getting into it. So another thing, the security system, the camera system malfunctioned and from July 29th to the, to this to this point was never fixed. They did have live footage of the area, but that was not being reviewed. So basically there was no security footage supposedly that we could find to see if somebody did. ⁓ There was a camera view, one of the cameras that was working. ⁓ And this has been ⁓ admitted, there was a flash of orange that is seen going up some stairs going towards Epstein's. I have seen sell but again, it's it's so blurry that it's kind of been rushed under the rug, you know, it's ⁓ Anybody have any more comments on the Angie: Wasn't there a time that was as well? Wasn't there like a time? Steve Lindsey: Yeah, see, there was Angie and what it was was a time break in the footage and it was only a few seconds according to the timer. But anybody, I did a splice tonight, right before we came on the air of how easy and I'd never done it before. To me, that's all bunk. It was... Angie: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Steve Lindsey: And I don't know if you're going to have my question to you, Brett, is have the guards in this case come under any kind of punishment? Have they been prosecuted? mean, I think they were. did. But you want to know the kicks out of that? They ⁓ were originally charged and they did some training and then all charges were. See, I have a- But they were only charged with falsifying documentation. See, that's all they were charged with. I have a, one of my realtor friends used to, he is a retired corrections officer. had that happened on his watch, we talked about it. He would be serving a very long prison sentence. Because that is dereliction of duty from everything that you've laid out so far, Brett, from the- Angie: Hmph. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: The fact that even if those officers came on duty and saw that he was alone, knowing the rules about suicide, their first question should have been, is there someone else not in there with him? Why is these things the way they are? And by not doing that, they are derelict in their duties. I would add this on the flip side. Angie: Yeah. Steve Lindsey: There's a lot of accusations that they were paid off. I all that. And there's a ton of evidence that makes it look like something happened. On the flip side. These two officers in this particular area slept through most of the night. Wouldn't you know ahead of time if something was gonna happen and one of the most, if not the most. known person in the entire world sitting in a jail is discovered dead, that they are going to critique every moment of every video. Why in the world would you turn around and be so nonchalant? You're sleeping half the night. You're obviously guilty of all these charges that you wish were normally saying would give you a long prison sentence. That almost makes it look like they didn't know what was going on, even though I don't see how that's case either. Well, here recently, just in the last couple of weeks, some more stuff has come out about the guards. And one of them, Tova Noel, uh, was one of the correctional officers working that night at 5 42 and at 5 52, which was about 40 minutes before, uh, Epstein was found. Uh, she Googled latest on Epstein in jail, which is weird. Oh my God. This just came out in the last couple of weeks. Are you kidding me? Oh, you're going to get some things worse than that. uh, Let's see. There was deposits, several deposits, which began in April, 2018, and culminated the largest deposit, which was $5,000 on July 30th. They totaled to about 11,000 in total and was actually flagged and sent to the FBI by the bank. I think it was Chase Bank. Again, this was one of the guards that was working that night. I mean, this is just in the last couple of weeks, so who knows what more information we're gonna get from that. Again, if it was just one thing, one coincidence, you're a little bit, you you could be on the fence, but when you start stacking up all of these things at once, it becomes very hard to refute. I think it's important to note there and the original reports didn't. The original report simply said Epstein guard $5,000 cash deposit 10 days before he's dead. One other thing that Brett mentioned was these payments, these cash deposits began a year prior and there was a series of them. So was it related to this? Who knows? In my opinion, it's more likely this girl selling drugs. Why mean otherwise why you having access to these huge amounts of cash, you know Which is why that they got the flag but the FBI or by the bank consent to the FBI Jerry's such a such a conspiracy theorist. I'm just telling her Googling, you know latest on Jeffrey Epstein in jail. It just makes you seem like you're expecting something to come up the the breaks in the film reek of Angie: Well, Ted. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: forgeries the orange flash going upstairs reeks ⁓ It's like an action movie. It's like they're all they cut out the cameras but go ahead go in it's it's almost like they watched a 90s action movie and thought that that would fly and it did It's insane. It sounds it Angie: You And drug the guards, drug the guards so they sleep all night. Steve Lindsey: There you go, that would explain why they were sleeping nonchalantly. That would, but if you're drugging them and making them go to sleep, then why are you paying them thousands of dollars for a year? Well, now they have, have a, what's it called? Plausible deniability. Angie: Right. Steve Lindsey: When somebody was filled out the chart that those rounds were being made, obviously they, they, it was also proven that these guards routinely did this. ⁓ it wasn't this night. These guards are just lazy jerks that sit on their butts and fake documents. Nice. And so they got charged and then went to some training and all charges were dropped. because training fixes everything. Absolutely. You'll never do that again. They work for the state. They work for the state, right? Angie: Of course. Ha Steve Lindsey: So the second big conspiracy that I wanted to cover ⁓ is that there is a secret client list or blackmail ledger of powerful people. And this includes politicians, celebrities, billionaires. ⁓ We've talked about a few, like Bill Gates, the Clintons, Trump. ⁓ All these people are being mentioned as not only ⁓ interacting with Epstein ⁓ after he was a convicted pedophile. which we'll get to that in a little bit here in a second. But also, yeah, going to these parties and then with Bill Gates, mean, there's evidence that he's like trying to slip his then wife, you know, STD drugs because of STDs he's gotten from some of these girls that Epstein has introduced him. So again, it's just... And where you're talking about, you can't redact it for embarrassment. There's a lot of people who should be very embarrassed. Bill Gates being one of the main ones, right? ⁓ he's admitted. Not that he could deny it. And by the way, that was one of the big reasons for his divorce. His wife, Melissa Gates, has said that for many years, is the fact that Bill Gates, her husband, against her wishes, continued to hang around with this Lee's back. ⁓ I've just got to say that. Angie: Yes. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: I can't hang around you anymore, Brett. Just kidding. Joking. Stop looking in the mirror. So roughly half, like we had mentioned earlier, roughly half of the 6 million pages that are supposedly, this big 6 million documents that the FBI supposedly has, about half, three and a half million documents have been released. They are all, a lot of them are heavily redacted. So even when I was looking at, like I said, I was spending a lot of time just looking into the pizza gate stuff. A lot of names are blocked out. So whether those are victims, I mean, I don't know, but ⁓ the way the emails were worded didn't make it seem like it was for protect victims. a ton of the representatives that have went and viewed files like Massey that have absolutely said, guys, there's no reason for this to be redacted. This does not fall under the stipulations, the rules that we attached of what you can redact. These are not. young girls, these are not privileged information. There's no reason to do that. And Lex Westner, the one guy we talked about was one example that they had to, okay, sorry, we made a mistake. We know there's a lot of that. The only thing that should have been redacted is victim identity. I can't think of another thing that- Pornography itself. Well, yeah, if it included a victim, if it's just some naked billionaire running around chasing a girl. Angie: 100%. Steve Lindsey: black out the girl, let them make it in the description of what is contained in that video. I mean, you don't have to release the video itself, but there should be some sort of file that we can see that, okay, yeah, we have video evidence of this occurring. know, it's so clinical. It was required by the, it's very redaction. had to say why no, was done. Not a single one. It's very telling to me that if you release part of the files and I'll give an example, Glenn Beck, who is a famous radio talk show host is in the Epstein files. His name wasn't redacted, but his name very specifically said was between Epstein and a redacted person about Glenn Beck, about how they couldn't get him to the effing island because he's such a sleazebag talking about how they didn't like Glenn Beck. If I'm in the Epstein files, I want to be Glenn Beck in the Epstein files. I want them to be talking about how bad they hate me. But there's zero reason Glenn Beck's name's not redacted. And the person that Jeffrey Epstein is emailing about Glenn Beck is. That's BS. So Epstein apparently had a 97 page address book that was stolen back in like, think the mid 2000s. Yeah. Yeah. By his butler Alfredo Rodriguez. It's been released to the public ⁓ but it lists that hundreds of elites again politicians billionaires royals scientists ⁓ And these names are alongside other contacts that are for young girls who give massages, right? It's more like a row of ducks. Yeah Which again doesn't really prove anything but he's obviously in contact with these very very powerful people ⁓ Epstein's properties when they when they raided those houses, they found hidden cameras, like I said earlier. And apparently, from those raids, thousands of images and videos were seized as a part of that. again, like we were saying, it's not been released. But like we were saying earlier, Attorney General Pan Bondi teased that there is some sort of client list, but then apparently now there is nothing. ⁓ So she said that. ⁓ The client list is sitting on her desk and then the FBI was reviewing tens of thousands of videos of Epstein with children, other child pornographic videos. And this was walked back in July of 2025, saying there was no client list or blackmail evidence at all. So again, the fact, it almost reminds me of some of the stuff we've talked about with aliens where they've come, I mean, think about Roswell, what they said initially about Roswell and then, ⁓ no, it's a weather balloon. You know what I mean? Angie: Yeah. Steve Lindsey: So again, this just, and I think the American public has gotten so used to the government lying to us that we're just looking for it all the time. So whether they're telling the truth or not, nobody is going to trust anything they say because we know that they've been lying to us for a hundred years. Angie: Yeah. Steve Lindsey: Do you have something to add to that? Well, I was just going to ask about another conspiracy. I didn't know if you were getting into the alleged allegations about graves at Epstein's Island and at Hisoro Ranch. No, mean, Jeff, you want to talk about it? Well, I was just going to bring it up because as late as 2006, 2008, Google Earth images show what they say looks to be a small mass grave that happened right before his $3,000. Angie: Definitely. Steve Lindsey: $3,000 bond release and later the secret deal that shielded him against those charges. But according to, and I'm using air quotes here because I have not verified it. I just saw it when you brought it up, that those graves were used to dispose victims and or incriminating material. In 2020, there were grave light plots that were seen on Zuro ranch in the same type deal. in New Mexico. ⁓ If that is factual, why can't we go see that? Why can't not us? Why can't the government go dig, exhume those graves if that's what they are, find the victims and put this to bed and let their families have their remains? It's ridiculous. There's so many quick, there's so many wrinkles to this story. And Angie's going to get into a little while. Angie: Mm. Steve Lindsey: about how this all works, how this mechanically works, how this becomes a thing. But I'm want to talk about us attorney Alexander Acosta for a second. This is Jerry's favorite, by the way. So the 2008 Acosta deal or sweetheart deal. the FBI and, uh, and federal prosecutors, they began investigating Epstein in 2005 and 2006. basically after an incident where there was a girl at Palm Beach High School and she got into a fight with another girl and basically the other girl was calling her like a prostitute and all these names. And when they looked into it, she had like $300 in cash and they found out that she was in contact with Jeffrey Epstein and that Epstein was paying her to do like happy ending massages essentially. So that all started this investigation. By 2007 to 2008, they prepared 82 pages prosecution memo. They drafted a federal indictment outlining the charges that were being presented, including potential sex trafficking violations. That should carry a life sentence. should carry a life Very minimal, multi-decade sentence. You would think. You would think. But what did he get? His defense team was really good. Apparently really good. They negotiated to avoid federal charges. So Epstein agreed to plead guilty in Florida State Court to two minor charges, which was solicitation of prostitution, which is a felony, and procurement of minors to engage in prostitution, which required sex offender registration. Keep in mind, this is in 2008. He was required to serve 18 months in county prison, which was the Palm Beach County facility, followed by 12 months of community control. That was his sentence. Angie: Yeah. Steve Lindsey: He only served 13 months due to game time credits and he spent most of his days on work release up to 12 hours a day, six days a week at his office. 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. Six days a week. This man left and went to his billionaire. He just went there to sleep. Yes. Essentially. In an exchange, the U.S. Attorney's Office. You'd think that that would be like, the U.S. Attorney's Office is getting something, right? No, they... Angie: Yeah. Steve Lindsey: agreed to end the federal investigation, forego federal prosecution of Epstein in the southern districts of grant immunity from federal charges to four named co-conspirators, which were all women, excuse me, alleged to have recruited or facilitated those victims, and then any other potential co-conspirators, which was a broad immunity cost. So, yeah, how did this happen? Angie: Yeah. Steve Lindsey: question. Who who did you say? You call this the Acosta deal? Yeah. Who was the attorney that Yeah. What was the guy's name? Angie Bray's receipts. That's what I like about Angie. Look at that. The lead attorney for that and on Epstein's side. Yeah. was Alan. Not on Epstein's side. The US attorney general that the brokered this deal. It's called the Acosta deal. His name is Alexander Angie: It's the non-prosecution agreement. I have it right here. Steve Lindsey: No, yeah, yeah, okay, okay. Do you know what happened to him? What punishment did he get for making this horrible deal? Oh, that's right. In Trump's first term of office, he appointed this man as Secretary of Labor. He remained in that until this deal became public and we found out what a sweetheart deal it was. We found out how that no one else in the world who's convicted of these charges gets this short time, gets to go. 12 hours a day, six days a week, wherever they want. And then his co-conspirators had immunity. At that point, he was forced to resign. yeah, this was Trump. Trump took this attorney that brokered this deal and made him the Secretary of Labor. So apparently, Alexander Acosta, so the Trump transition team, he told them that he was told that Epstein belonged to intelligence and to leave it alone. Those quotes. Who would tell you that? In the 2026 file releases so so what's been released this year? There is actually a 2020 FBI memo that claimed that Epstein was a massage agent which we're gonna get into That he was a spy trained under former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak he worked with Israeli intelligence and and this explained the 2008 plea deal Does anybody have anything to add to that sweetheart deal? I just Angie: Mm-hmm. Yeah, did you know, sorry, did you know that in that deal, right, ⁓ so if anybody, it was all kept from the public as well, right? Like it was hushed from the public, the media wasn't allowed to report on it or anything. But if say I decided to go into the Freedom of Information Act and wanna dig it up, Jeffrey Epstein had to be notified. However, Steve Lindsey: No, yeah, please. Angie: None of the victims were notified of this NPA. None of them were notified that the investigation had halted. They were still told that the investigation was going on. Is that not disgusting? Like these poor victims. Steve Lindsey: It is gross. Absolutely. And it was later deemed by a judge to be illegal. There are requirements when you have, when you make an agreement with convicted sex offenders, there are many stipulations that apply and this was completely illegal. deal itself was illegal. Well, the best things about the internet, go ahead Angie, I'm sorry. Angie: Yes. Yeah, the end. I was just going to say, yeah, it says the NPA did not require that Epstein identify or name the co-conspirators. It did not require cooperation with any ongoing in federal investigation of others. It did not require that victims be notified before or after signing. It had no restrictions on the Epstein's ability to travel internationally. No prohibition on Epstein to associate with potential victims. Steve Lindsey: What? Angie: No requirement for Epstein to serve time in a federal facility. Steve Lindsey: I want his lawyer. Good gravy. want the money to buy this agreement. Well, whatever. There's no proof of that. But in my opinion, we said many times Lady Liberty may be colorblind, but not to the color green. Ain't that the truth? money will buy you tons of stuff. And that is obvious in this case. I mean, if you just believe what they're talking about with this guard, mean, $11,000 is nothing to these people. You know what mean? But drop it to dinner. ⁓ Angie: No. Steve Lindsey: Yeah, to this lady, mean, it's, it's literally life changing, you know, so. I just want to say real quick, and I know you got a lot to get to. One of the best things about the modern internet and I don't know how my algorithms got into this, but I love the hundreds upon hundreds of groups that trap these child predators and then meet them. Angie: Pocket change. Steve Lindsey: and then just beat the snot out of them. I can watch those for hours because they think they're going to meet some little 13 year old boy or girl. And this big old dude pops up and like, Hey yo, hand or whatever his name is. I'm the guy you're supposed to be meeting. You could just see the blood run out of their face because they know they're caught. I just love it. Please continue, Brett. So let's get into Angie: Isn't it great? Isn't it great? So great. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: the conspiracy that Epstein is an intelligence asset. So we kind of touched on it with the Alexander Acosta stuff. He was told that he belonged to intelligence. So specifically with Israel, there's so much information. Excuse me. So the previous Prime Minister, Ehud Barak, he visited Epstein's New York townhouse more than 30 times. between 2013 to 2017. Again, this is after he's already been a convicted child predator, right? And this is proven by flight logs, visitor records, emails that were all released earlier this year. One email from Epstein to Barack, he said, you should quote, you should make clear that I don't work for Brassad, smiley face, end quote. Just lane's Maxwell's father. Angie: Yes. Ha ha. Steve Lindsey: who is the only person who's been convicted at this point. ⁓ His name was Robert Maxwell, was Mossad asset. He even received a state funeral in Israel. It was attended by at least six heads of Israeli intelligence. Again, the connections are just stacking up here. Former Israeli intelligence officer Ari Ben-Manash, he claimed that he and Epstein both worked for Israeli intelligence. Angie: Yeah. Steve Lindsey: and that they ran a honey trap blackmail operation using underage girls. And this is supported in the 2026 releases, excuse me, that these two people were in contact, that Epstein was in contact with Menashe very frequently. A couple other things from the 2026 releases. So Epstein's lawyers filed an FOIA request. So Freedom of Information Act. to the CIA and NSA, and they specifically asked for records that could show affiliation with those agencies. That was revealed in the documents released in February of 2026. There were emails showing that Epstein and associates discussing operations with former MI6 and Mossad figures. ⁓ These included plans to recover frozen Libyan assets using ex-intelligence help. ⁓ Epstein provided financial support to Israeli military and settler groups and his unexplained wealth rapid rise from teacher to billionaire like we said, ⁓ their side and as being consistent with he had some sort of intelligence backed honey pot operation, his house, his house is all bugged. mean, this guy and going back to what Manash was claiming this honey trap blackmail operation. I mean, if you're gonna be doing that and you're inviting all these super powerful officials, elites, and you're inviting them to your home, you're inviting them to your island to party and to supposedly, you know, get massages from these young good looking girls. I mean, this is exactly what you would expect. And, and here's what I kind of want to go into. I didn't really give it a lot of thought. I know we've talked about it a little bit off camera, but this whole war with Iran. I don't want to make anybody mad, but it seems like we're basically going into this war for Israel It seems like America is not benefiting from benefiting from this at all the fact that Israel has been working with Supposedly working with Epstein to gain all this blackmail information on all these powerful elites It seems like they could use that especially if Trump's involved not saying he is but they could use that to force America into this war that nobody benefits from. ⁓ I know we've talked about the timing of the war. Maybe it's just to distract from the Epstein files. The timing of it just seems real weird, right? ⁓ I just want to layer this for you a little bit. If for me personally, and anyone who believes in our government, believing that Angie: Hmm. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: A honey trap, as you put it, is beyond the scope of a government entity. I would look at our very own government in 1954, Operation Midnight Climax, which was a offshoot of MKUltra, where our very own government bought a red light district, brought people in, fed them without them knowing LSD just to test what it had. Angie: Yes. Steve Lindsey: how it reacted and if they could control their minds because of LSD. This is not for the uneducated or the un indoctrinated. This is not beyond the realm of scope. In fact, this is probably one of the most believable things of all the conspiracy theories is that a government had to hand an Epstein item. Ours or Israeli, take your pick. It doesn't matter to me. Angie: Mm-hmm. Steve Lindsey: That's kind of the gist of what I really wanted to cover. I know we didn't talk about pizza gate. We're going to talk about that later. Yeah. We think that one's deserving of its own episode. Well, let's listen to what Ed Locke has to say. And when we come back, we're going to listen to how all of this actually fits together and how the mechanics work. Because enough about Jeffrey Epstein. Let's talk about real life. He's dead and gone. Thank God. This is still happening. sex trafficking. Humans trafficking, sex trafficking still happens every day. We're going to talk to Angie. She's going to give us in depth. But let's listen to Ed Locke and his, what he has to say about this particular time of year. Man, I tell you that is, I have, I just want to say, because we're taking a little break here. I have two deals closing this month with Ed as you know, I'm a realtor here in central Kentucky. If you need anything, call me, I can help you out. But I have two deals closing with Ed this month. Both of them are going to close early because of his due diligence of how thorough and complete and awesome he is. you've some recent experience with him. deal with Ed is when you're talking about financing on a home mortgage that's one of the biggest purchases you'll make in your entire life, deep down you probably begin to wonder, are they giving me the best deal for me or the best deal for them? Because the way that this works is they make money, these guys make money up on successful completion of a mortgage. I can promise you that Ed Locke is the type guy And he's told us and he's not only told us, but he's backed it up with everything that he does as well as witnesses for many years. He believes that the only way to stay in business long term is to treat people right. You don't need to worry about advertising. They'll tell their friends and they'll tell their friends. And that has done that for his entire career. He looks out for you and your best interest. My daughter recently dealt with him. She didn't end up using him for simple reason. Her husband works for a local bank. Ed at one point began to question, since he works for this bank, can he not get a better rate there? It turned out that he could, and that's who they went with. Ed Locke pointed them in that direction. That's the type of guy, if you want someone like that with that honesty and that integrity, Mr. Redlock is the main one. When you are dealing with the absolute biggest purchase you will ever make in your life, you want a person that's going to be blunt with you. And Ed is like me, he believes in the long game. Okay, maybe I don't have the best deal this time, but who are you going to call the very next time? If I let you know that mine's not the best deal. Absolutely. look out for you. I still look out for your interest. You will remember that. Absolutely. remember that until the day I die. Right. Well, thank you and welcome back. Angie, we are glad. I just can't. how excited it is to have you on the show. Yeah, thankful we are to have Rebecca with us. you did as busy as you are and to take the time to join little O us. It just makes me happy. Angie: Thank you. I feel that way actually. I feel that you have on your show is amazing. So thank you. Steve Lindsey: The one thing that I will say, Angie has a best-selling book, Hidden in the Shadows. It deals with the very topics that we're talking about today. Brent is an avid reader. He reads what? Two, three books a week, probably? Something like that. No. You are... He reads a lot more than I do. Prior to having 14 children. I'm gonna get like one in every couple months. Angie: Haha Steve Lindsey: The last book that I have read to completion is Hidden in the Shadows. And I love the book. If you haven't read it, you can find it at all major book store outlets, Barnes & Noble, Amazon. And if you're an audio book guy like me, it's on AutoBell. I actually have a copy of the book. Thank you, Angie. But I also listen to it on AutoBell because I'm like you, I'm on the go all the time. And that's the best way, most convenient way for me to read a book. It is a fantastic read all the way through to the very, very end. ⁓ I'm not going to spoil it, but damn, that ending got me and I was not prepared. So if you like a great book, check out Hidden in the Shadows by A.D. Vanshies. Angie, you were going to kind of tell us a little bit. So we've heard the conspiracies and we've heard the facts and we heard who this guy was, but You know, in reality, Jeffrey Epstein is no more. He can't hurt people anymore. But this happens in every single community, every single day. And there's a, I'm assuming there's a pattern to it, that if we open our eyes, we will start to see that pattern. And hopefully we're brave enough and smart enough to see it and most importantly intervene so that this... maybe will help some young person, boy or girl. Tell us a little bit about that. Angie: Yeah. Well, I think what stands out from this case for me is that first of all, what was supposed to remain hidden did come to light, which is one of the best parts. But ⁓ if you look at the way that Jeffrey Epstein's network worked, that's how all of them pretty much work. Most people think that kidnapping is they come into a store, they take your child and they run with them, which does happen, of course, but that isn't the majority. The majority is grooming, setting them up so that they don't even know that they're a victim. I have to give you guys a plug because of your show and having me on it, I had a gentleman reach out to me ⁓ who had never told his story to anybody and he... was molested by his babysitter and then pimped out by her for years and nobody even knew. And he's given me his writings because from listening to your show he heard me speak and he felt that he could tell his story to me, which I was very honored about. But he'd send me these writings that he had done and to hear and to witness I think it was you Brett talking about schools. He was molested in his schools as well. They were by women and they were all, he was told by all of them that they are just prepping him to be able to satisfy his girlfriend or his wife or his whatever. And how it's done is just so manipulative. The first time he was nine years old and he, his babysitter took him, under her wing, if you will, she went to have a shower and casually called him and purposely left, you know, the curtain open by a little tiny bit so that when she asked him to go, she's forgotten a towel. So could you please pass me a towel? She caught him. Obviously a nine year old boy is probably going to catch a little glimpse, which she would know. And when he caught that, when she caught him catching glimpse. ⁓ Later on, she sat down and she said, now that's not allowed. You can't do that. You know, that was a one time thing, you know, and sort of made him feel bad about what had happened, even though she had set the whole thing up. And the one thing that I noticed throughout all of his writings was how he mechanically went into this when he spoke about another woman who molest him, he just mechanically went into this job mode, like it was supposed to be his job. And it was interesting to me how he was able to separate that from his regular life. It was almost like he had two people or two lives. So in the Jeffrey Epstein case, it's the same. He would get girls to come in and massage him under the pretense of, we're going to pay you, you know, this is going to be ⁓ for your benefit. because they always say that too. ⁓ And then they would have them recruit people as well. Now in this gentleman's story, he didn't have to recruit anybody, but it is a very common theme where they aren't taken off the street. They are groomed by often people they know. That is the biggest misconception. It's either a neighbor, a brother, a mother, a dad, ⁓ a friend of a family, you know, and the mother of this gentleman had no idea that even to this day has no idea what had happened in that situation. The other thing is, is that the infrastructure, always pick on or are attracted to people with less than, either they don't have a family figure or they don't have money or they don't have, you know, they'll find that nuance that is not, that's missing. and then they'll swoop in. You know, that's why Hollywood gets involved because people want to be famous. People want to have a lot of money. People want this, they want that. So they'll do things outside of their own character. And if they're groomed from young enough, they get a Stockholm syndrome, which then, and I saw this in this gentleman, he loved this woman. He protected this woman. And it's just such an interesting dynamic. that develops. And I would believe that because of Jeffrey Epstein's fame, these kids, these younger kids would be almost honored that they were invited to his place. So they use their power, they use their influence, and they groom. They 100 % groom. Which you would see on those pedophile ⁓ hunter shows too. They groom these kids. You know, it's pretty bad. Steve Lindsey: I saw a recent podcast with Sean Ryan. He had a guy on that was groomed through roadblocks. And then I guess that guy has created his own YouTube channel and he goes after people on roadblocks. ⁓ again, it just, as a parent, it's kind of scary because you, mean, we don't let our kids go on the internet at all. Of course they're all pretty young still, but. ⁓ Angie: Yes. Good. Steve Lindsey: But that's just been kind of something we, you know, we're not, we're not going to do smartphones. We're not going to do any of that because again, like not even just because I mean, there's obviously a lot of reasons why to not do that, but this is one of them. And it's really scary to know that majority of these people who, are victims it's by, it's by people who are well, it's people who are close to their parents, uncles, aunts, even, even sometimes biological parents are the cause of this. Angie: Yeah. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: I do have one question. So going back to Epstein, do you have profile cases like Epstein? it seem to, in your opinion, does it help or does it hurt the broader fight against human trafficking? Angie: believe it does both. ⁓ It brings awareness to it and, you know, awareness is how we can recognize it. So it does bring that type of awareness. ⁓ But the downfall, and I wrote it all down here. Yeah, so. And it helps to bring victims to come forward because they're afraid to come forward quite often because let's face it, they're not listened to. When they are listened to, they're told that that was incorrect, that didn't happen. Even in the Jeffrey Epstein case, I mean, you had said how many years before it had happened, you know? ⁓ But there's a cost too because it's not only wealthy men that have islands that are doing this. So what I was saying before is that you know it it makes people think that it's just happening there But it's not it's happening in your own town. It's happening right around the corner from you, and you don't even know it's happening ⁓ So it's good and bad you know And on the elite level it happens more than we even know too because they're all protected Steve Lindsey: Do you believe that? ⁓ go ahead. I'm sorry, Angie. Angie: So it does. No, I just said, it does help, but it also hurts at the same time. Steve Lindsey: Well, that's the thing. I think that in my opinion, it would help bring awareness to the situation as a whole. But in the same time, it also makes some people complacent because they think, ⁓ that only happens over there or to those people. When it could be uncle Bob there at the family barbecue, which is really terrible. I think a problem with our generation, especially this time period, I Dave Chappelle even has a joke about it, but like Angie: Exactly. Steve Lindsey: In his joke, he talks about the Challenger blowing up and it was like a huge deal because I everybody was watching across the news. He was like, now the Challenger blows up every day. So like all these people, they're just getting flooded with all this bad information. And so this is just like, just stack it on the pile, right? So like, I feel like we're just over, we're just flooded with all this negative information. Yeah, we're desensitized from it. And so when we do hear about this stuff, Angie: Yeah. desensitizes. Steve Lindsey: It's almost like, well, it's just another day. Well, here's the thing that I would challenge you or anyone else to. And this is going to sound kind of old school because I'm kind of old school. I'm kind of old. I don't care anymore. But the point is, it's a desensitization of us maybe, but for the victim who it's happening to, that's their entire life. So it's worth us paying attention. I mean, it's worth it. And I ran, we just blew up a school and 160 kids. It was obvious. I mean, it was, it was a mistake, but like, well, sorry about that. mean, it's, and they wonder why, just for, for that particular thing, I've got to say this. And anybody who wonders why people of different countries absolutely hate the United States. Angie: 100%. Yeah. Right. Steve Lindsey: This is why. If my child was at that school, I would risk life and limb to destroy every single thing that you were in your life. Any normal father would, right? Exactly. more crappy things happen. It's horrible. to add insult to injury, our official response has been, oh, we didn't do that. We think the government themselves blew it up. Right. Oh, was with a Tomahawk that they don't have? Oh, we a lot of other countries. Angie: More hate. Steve Lindsey: Yeah, only two countries in the whole area has Tomahawks. That's our official response so far. Ridiculous. But I just want to say that as someone who has had personal interest in grooming, interest is not the word, I had a situation with one of my children in an elementary school and I'm not going to name names. I'm not going to name schools. It's not important at this point. But the only reason it didn't continue was because as a parent, I paid attention to my children. How many people today have grandparents raising children because they aren't interested enough to raise their own children? That's not what scares me. It's the ones that has the neighborhood raising children. Absolutely. Same difference. think grandparents are probably a little better than some of the kids really. Jerry, in today's technology. Angie: Yeah. Steve Lindsey: technological world that really isn't the same. They're there, they're present, but they don't have a clue what's happening on the cell phone. Kids who are not only not watching, they're showing you how to do it. Right. Well, that's life in general. That's been that way for a million years, but the, the, the ultimate fit when you, I have to say this because it's my, my daddy. Angie: Yes. Steve Lindsey: my daddy jeans coming out. If you have children, you no longer have rights to your life first. Your kids come first, then you can proceed. Sorry. When they go out of the house, I'm an empty desk or I could say this. Then you get your life back. But while they're in your home, it's your job to be a damn parent. That prevents a lot of this stuff from happening. Angie: Right. Yep. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: and be a parent, not be a friend. Right. That's a whole different. Angie: It does, and that's why I think it's important. It's really important for parents to understand that. That's who they prey on. They prey on those kids that are not being watched, right? They prey on those children. Steve Lindsey: Yes. In this particular situation, yeah, Angie, in this particular situation that I'm talking about, that I was personally involved in, the teacher in this case thought that because we were poor at the time, that I wasn't involved. Because my son went to daycare, I wasn't involved. And when I got involved, that corrected the situation ASAP because... Angie: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: You know, I was willing to go to jail that day. Thank goodness for a particular principal that was smart enough to say, I think we're gonna stay on different ends of the school right now, but I'll handle it. And it was, to their credit, was handled, but it was an attempt to start that process of grooming because they thought I wasn't involved. You know why I wasn't involved? Worked two jobs. Angie: Yes. Steve Lindsey: wasn't there, didn't pick up my kids from school, they rode the bus home. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I think that it happens so much at schools that we don't even realize how common this is. So, Angie, I did have one more question too. Okay. Angie: F Yep. It It does. And they have groomers. Sure. Steve Lindsey: No, you go ahead. Angie: ⁓ I was just going to say they have groomers in schools. They have recruitment in schools, for sure. Steve Lindsey: And the school that I taught at, guess I probably shouldn't say too much, but I saw the grooming happening. Let's just say that. It's more obvious than you would think if you just keep your eyes open. Well, let me think of this step further, Brett. If knowing what you know now and you saw that same behavior, you would step in, right? Yeah. Right. Because now you know. Well, first of all, it depends on to what level. Right. Some of the Angie: Yeah. Steve Lindsey: things they might do in the initial steps of the grooming aren't illegal. It could be the beginning steps and you could step in and say, ⁓ this might be headed somewhere you don't want it to go. But there's not only so much you could do if it hasn't passed certain steps. And I have no idea specifically what you saw and if it qualifies for that or not. Yeah. I again, I think it just reinforced me as a parent not wanting to send my kids to public school or at least just knowing who's Angie: No. Steve Lindsey: who my kids are around, right? Cause even this, know, send your kid to public school, you don't really know those teachers. Like you don't know their backgrounds and they're like, and it's scary. But here's the thing, Brad. Angie: No. ⁓ Well, we see in the, sorry, Brett, sorry, I was just gonna say, and we see it in the, right? They come across as this wonderful human being carrying the foundations, they start, and all it is is a facade, and the teachers are no different. Steve Lindsey: Go ahead. The thing is though, Brett, you as a parent are going to know those teachers. going, you or your wife are going- Well, it's not going to matter. Right. Well, I'm saying in the particular case, the difference is by going to PTA meetings, by going to the conferences where you're supposed to show up, showing up will put those kids off limits to them because for the most part. I that as soon as as a parent you're there, you're present, you're in the moment, you're there and you're not on your phone the entire time. Angie: Right. Steve Lindsey: You eliminate a lot of that. The parents who just drop their kid off and drive off or don't even drop, they just make them, you know, those are the kids that are getting preyed on. Here's an example of the daughter saying, do you remember the school shooting in Columbine, Colorado years and years ago? Some of these parents, and these were very wealthy, affluent parents. were living in half a million dollar homes at the time, probably two million now. Angie: ⁓ yeah. Yep. Steve Lindsey: In many cases, they were going into the bedrooms of their kids and there's posters on the wall. There's notebooks full of writings and the parents knew none of it. That's parents who are so caught up in trying to keep up with the Joneses that you're involved with your work life, your career life. You're not involved with your kid's life at all. Back to what you're saying. You have to be involved in your kid's life. The PSA, if there is one here, and I think Angie would agree, is be present. Be in your kid's life. But instead of be aware of the reason, we probably should give him an opportunity. Sorry, Angie. did. I want to you, Angie, just in your opinion. So we see like, I mean, we've seen that the former Prince Andrew, he's been arrested and remains under investigation because of all this stuff. I'm honestly not familiar with what's been happening in Canada, but I know in America, seems just explains. Maxwell is the only one that's really been convicted. Angie: Yeah. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: So why do you think that, and we've kind of mentioned it, why do you think that nobody is being arrested for any of this information coming out? Angie: In my personal opinion, I believe no one's being arrested because in the research that I've done to this point on the elites and on this big trafficking ring, they want to desensitize people from this. They want it to almost become a normal thing. So by putting it in everybody's face all the time, it is doing that, but then they aren't going to make the arrest because It's kind of, came up with this little slogan today and I thought it was kind of good, actually my partner did, said, it's almost like they're bringing darkness into the light, but for the benefit of the dark, if that makes any sense. Yeah, yeah. So, right, and I think that's why there's not been any arrests, because if it was about stopping it and it was about ending it, then the arrests would already have been made. Steve Lindsey: Ooh, it does. Scarcely so it does. Angie: How do all these kids go missing? I think I said this on your show last time. How do all these kids go missing if the top people aren't involved? But they've got judges, they've got police, they've got FBI, CIA, they've got it infiltrated. And the reason they can't arrest anybody is because everybody's involved. They would have to, just like Pam Bondi said, the whole thing would come crashing down. Well, let it crash. It needs to crash. Put these people away, you know? But that's my opinion, I have proof, but I think that's what they're doing. I think they're trying to get it normalized. I mean, there's people in the UK that are raping children and marrying 13 year olds because this is normal now, you know? And I think that that's the end game. Yeah, it's. Steve Lindsey: Really? UK is just... Well, the UK, can be arrested for speaking your mind or protecting your body if you're a woman that happened within the last few months. It's ridiculous. I have a question, Angie. Do you think you mentioned this huge trafficking ring, but do you think that human trafficking in general happens in a big, so this Angie: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: Obviously the Jeffrey Epstein files involves a very large amount of elites. But do you think that that is the bulk of it or do you think it's more local? I mean it happens in every community. There are kids from every community on milk cartons. Angie: Yeah. Yeah. And there are kids right now that are being groomed as we're speaking. I mean, in your area, they are being groomed at this moment as we are speaking. And I think it is a big, it's a huge, I mean, you look at, I don't know, when you watch those pedophile hunter things, when we watch them, I can't believe how many second and third and fourth time offenders are there. What are they still doing out on the street? Why are they released? Steve Lindsey: Right. Right. Angie: There's no fixing it. So why, how, how is this your third offense and you still have a phone and you still have access to children? It's that part that really drives me nuts. And I think the reason is, is because of the elites, because of the judges, because of everybody being involved, they don't prosecutor, persecutor. or really slapped down on these people because then they would have to be slapped down on as well. And I think that cases like Jeffrey Epstein come out every once in a while. So it gives the false illusion that they're doing something about it when they really aren't. But it gives that illusion. There was a guy, I think I mentioned it before, ⁓ Keith Raniere, who was the head of the Nexum sex cult. Steve Lindsey: Yeah. Angie: There's a show called Seduced on, I think it's Sparks or something like that. It's worth everybody's ⁓ wait to watch that. ⁓ It shows the grooming. It shows how they did it through COVID. It shows how they groom the kids, the women, adults, how they can be sucked in. He's a Canadian guy. And actually, there's a family here right where I live who is... who funded him and they're in jail and they're all tied to Ghislaine and Ghislaine, I guess you say her name, ⁓ and her dad. Did you know that her dad was actually the publisher for all of the children's textbooks in schools? Steve Lindsey: Kind of like the, ⁓ the, the former CEO of the child pictures, the school pictures. What was his name? He w he was recently convicted of child being part of it. The Epstein files. Yeah. And I forget the name of the company. He hasn't been, he hasn't been associated with them for several years. And I remember Maxwell. Text. remember seeing Maxwell on the text. That's crazy. Angie: Yes, yes, exactly. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And you see. Steve Lindsey: It is a just. Angie: Yeah, keep it up. Yeah. Steve Lindsey: That's crazy. So do you think... Angie: It's a really, you when you start going into it, webs everywhere. Sorry, go ahead. Steve Lindsey: Right. No, no, was going to ask a very, I guess, religious question from your perspective. Is this? Obviously, this is of the devil. God, is this demonic. This has to be demonic. There has to be. Wouldn't you agree that this there's there's no way that that you don't you you don't advocate. What was what's the name of the group that is trying to normalize man boy relationships? It's some group that is legitimately in California. Try it. Angie: 100 % Maps. Steve Lindsey: Yes, they're trying to re-regulate that it's okay for men, grown men, to love boys. Yeah, they're a very little boy on the inside or little girl on the inside. I think over-headed on her show or something like Isn't that ridiculous? Angie: Mm-hmm. Steve Lindsey: It is scary. Yes, yes, she is. Because I don't have a new car under my seat. promise you. Angie, what would be the one thing that you'd want to say to finish up this show as opposed to ⁓ if somebody's if if what what is the first sign I guess? Angie: Oprah's a whole other show. Steve Lindsey: for the average listener to look for when they see or hear or even imagine that somebody is in the situation. Angie: Yeah, so I actually thought you might ask me that. So I did write down, the most important thing people can do is stay aware of vulnerability around them. Isolation, sudden dependency on an elder or powerful individual, secrecy, or drastic behavioral changes can all be warning signs. Awareness and attention are powerful tools in protecting those vulnerable people. So if some situation really drastically changes in someone that you see, say for instance, they were wearing shoes with holes in them, they didn't have a winter coat and all of a sudden they're wearing Jordans or something and they've got this big puffy down filled expensive coat, that's probably something to watch out Steve Lindsey: You can she's from Canada. Angie: Yeah, right. Or if they all of sudden come to school and they've got the latest Apple iPhone and they don't even have a lunch, there's something there, right? ⁓ If their personality changes too, if all of a sudden they were outgoing and they started to, you know, they always had good grades in school and all of a sudden their grades tank and their attitude changes, something's happened, you know? So watch out for those signs too. Those are key. Steve Lindsey: Right. Right. People who have experienced abuse have an entire mental change. Once that's happened, you don't get, that's where you stop developing as a child, I believe. Angie: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, 100%. Steve Lindsey: The innocence is gone. When you look at the Epstein files, not the rumors, not the headlines, but the actual records, a picture forms that's bigger than one man. For more than 20 years, police, federal agents, and prosecutors documented allegations from girls who were hurt, ignored, and dismissed. Their voices in those files, their fear is in those files, their courage is in those files. The evidence shows a pattern of abuse. It shows how hard survivors had to fight just to be believed. It also shows something else. How institutions meant to protect people failed to act quickly or decisively enough. Even after Epstein was gone, investigators kept uncovering missing interviews, withheld documents, and unanswered questions. And yet, through all of it, the truth kept pushing its way to the surface. The files released in recent years revealed not just what Epstein did, but how the system around him worked and sometimes didn't work in the face of exploitation. They show that the FBI gathered significant evidence against the abuse. The broader picture was complicated, incomplete, and still unfolding. So as we close tonight, remember this. Understanding the mechanics of trafficking isn't about fear, it's about awareness. It's about recognizing the signs. It's about listening to survivors and refusing to look away when something feels wrong. Human trafficking doesn't happen in the shadows because it's invisible. It happens because people aren't always believed and because powerful individuals can hide behind systems that move too slowly. But every time a survivor speaks, every time a file is unsealed, every time a community decides to pay attention, that darkness gets smaller. And if you see something that doesn't sit right, say something. Someone's very personal safety may depend on