Steve Lindsey: Deep in the Peruvian desert lies the message carved into the earth. Lines that are miles long, perfect geometric shapes, and giant animals no one on the ground could ever see. The Natsuka people drew them, but who were they drawing them for? We're diving into the theories, the rituals, and the high strangeness behind the Natsuka lines. From sacred pathways to water ceremonies to the possibility that these markings were meant for something or someone watching from above. Tonight on Newsworthy, two words and two question marks. I've a while since I've this. Just for you, man. Just for you, Brett. Just for you. Thank you, thank you. You know, we know that Brett is going to be taking a small hiatus from the show. Yeah, hopefully it's really small. So we're going to miss you. We do have a replacement for you lined up already. We do? Yeah, I was waiting for him today when he came up. Yeah, I met him. He seems like a good guy. He gives about the same amount of input. Just saying it's over there. It's just blank. It's a hand drawn picture of Brett. But yeah, it It does give the same amount of input. So I'm just kidding. Uh, we, we're going to get your, your stuff done and get you took care of, it's a, it's a good show. I do want to mention before we get started this week's exciting week, we got a lot of cool things happening. Uh, we're doing our first field trip this weekend. Woohoo! We don't know that looks like yet, but it's, watch us on YouTube and Instagram, all that stuff. It's going to be more visual experience, I think. Mainly because you get to see a lot of Jerry. So, and, ⁓ let's not run them off before they even start watching. ⁓ yeah. Our website's getting some pretty cool changes this week, hopefully. ⁓ so no, it be this week. Maybe it'll take more than one week to get that up. Maybe two weeks. Maybe several weeks. There'll be changes. There'll be changes coming. There will be large changes and we want them. It involves. I thought you said you sent this guy tomorrow. No. I thought you said too. I you never sleep. And he's retired. I don't know why he's getting out. Right? Gosh. He acts like he's retired or something. Yeah. But this is too important. I don't want to give it away, but it's too important. It's got to be done right. Otherwise bad things can happen. Right. So I've got to make sure it's done. Right. Anywho, tonight's topic, the NASCA lines. Pretty excited about this topic. I, I, there's a lot going on in today's world. It kind of relates. We're going into that a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. I will say, I want to say, come out to you guys and let you all know. Which is, well, you know, we talk politics a lot before, uh, originally that's all we talked about, but you know, at dinner, we always get into politics. I wouldn't let you know that I am changing my political affiliation. I'm going to be voting Democrat in the next election. Uh, I, I am hoping upon hope that it is a ticket of AOC and Gavin Newsom. I would be excited to support that and I can't wait to pull that lever for those guys. You suck at poker, don't you? What's your poker face is horrible. I'm awesome at poker. Thank you. He doesn't say thank you. T I four. Yes. Whenever you know he's going to do something big, I'm going to make him look a little too happy. He gives it away. April fools. ⁓ Sorry. ⁓ Yeah. I don't like any politician. Democrat Republicans, Democrats don't take heart. don't like Republicans. I'm trusting them more, less and less all the time. And it was basically zero trust. had them with them to begin with. Right. They're in the negatives. Anywho, uh, Jerry, tell us a little bit about some, uh, NASCA lines, where they come from, who were the people that you had to get into this. First, let me set the picture a little bit. Imagine if you were standing in the middle. of a huge, vast Peruvian desert. Nothing but sand, a little bit of wind, silence. And underneath your feet is a giant hummingbird, so giant it can only be seen from the sky. But don't worry, that's, as Steve said, just the Nazca lines. And the hummingbird would be one of hundreds of different figures, animals, plants, and geometric shapes. Okay, let's start with a where. They're located on Peru's southern desert plateau. They're roughly 250 miles south of Lima, the capital of Peru. They stretch across the Nazca Desert, which is an extremely arid plain. And the environment here is very important. It's very stable, almost no rain, very little wind, dark desert rocks over much lighter soil, which is perfect for preserving geoglyphs for millennia. When? These things date to somewhere between 200 BC and 600 AD, a long time ago. They weren't created at once, they were created over centuries. And they coincide with the rise and fall of the Nazca culture itself, which is known for pottery, textiles, extremely efficient, technologically advanced irrigation systems. We'll talk a little bit about that later. The who? Who made them? What was the Natsuka people in case you couldn't guess from the name? Very skilled engineers and artists for their times. They likely organized labor and ritual specialists that designed and helped maintain the lines. Their society was deeply tied to agriculture and water. Again, they were in one of the most dry deserts in the world. Their only hope of being able to sustain life there was to be able to irrigate to be able to grow crops to be able to survive it's amazing what people can do in certain situations you know what mean? absolutely is and i don't think in many cases we give near enough credit to some of the old people from the olden days we do in certain cases the pyramids is a great example right? that's still a marvel that we don't know how they did it but there's so many other things around the world like these that It's still absolutely amazing to go with your point of how they did this and they were so accurate with it. I don't understand, Brett. What Jerry was alive during this time. He probably helped with it. don't you just tell us? I would if my memory was better, but when you're that old, your memory tends to lose a little bit. It'd be like a year boat ride over there. Exactly. Yeah. These things are huge. It's over 180 square miles. The largest of the individual figures themselves span for over 1200 feet. The hummingbird that we mentioned in the beginning is 305 feet long. There are over 800 straight lines, some of which stretch for miles. Some resemble runways. I think we might hear more about that later. There are around 300 geometric shapes. That is, if you leave out the hundreds of new ones that have been found in the last decade alone. more than 70 animal and humanoid figures. Now many of these figures are visible only from above. Which begs the question, why would a culture with no aircraft design New geoglyphs are still being discovered via drones and AI mapping. We mentioned that within the last decade over several hundred have been discovered. There is a Japanese university, I'm probably massacre the name, I think it's Yamagata, that has had a team of people there investigating and researching this since 2011. And they are in large part the primary reason most of the new ones have been discovered. They have found tons of geoglyphs depicting parrots, cats, monkeys, killer whales, even severed heads. Near the Natske lines, most of them are believed to be a part of that hasn't been established in all of the cases. Many of the newer ones that they have found are smaller, older, more eroded, which is part of the reason that they hadn't been found previously, harder to spot from the ground. It also shows that the Natske lines are much larger than was previously believed. Some of the different shapes includes animals, hummingbirds, spiders, monkeys, condors, whales. are plants, some are plants, some are natural forms. There are even some humanoid figures that some say resemble astronaut-like figures. No, don't think that? No, I absolutely think they They absolutely do. Maybe. I'll be honest. we looked at. it's nicknamed the astronaut, right? I think it looks more humanoid with a little bit larger head, but I can certainly see where some would say it looks astronaut-like. There are also massive geometric shapes, trapezoids, spirals, zigzags. The who? Who discovered them? Now, obviously, they were known to locals for centuries, but they became famous around the world in the 20s. after commercial aircraft began to fly over and again as we said several times tons of these can only be seen from the sky. You see a shape you don't know what it is unless you're way up above looking down. That's when they became famous around the world. Now different people had saw them and talked about them and written about them for many years. The first published mention of the Nazca lines was by the Spanish conquistador Pedro de Leon in his 1553 book. Sixteen years later, in 1569, Luis Monzón reported having seen ancient ruins in this area that he described as the remains of roads, maybe some those long straight lines, some of which were miles long. Archaeologist Paul Kozik called them the world's largest astronomy book. We do know that several of them point to celestial bodies. which is why he was making that statement. The Nazca Lines were later studied extensively by Maria Reich, the Lady of the Lines, who dedicated her life to mapping, measuring, and protecting them, often by hand, under the desert sun. She concluded that the site was a huge astronomical calendar and that some of its animal sketches were modeled after groupings of stars in the night sky. Now, I had the easy part. I answered some of the W questions, the who, what, where and when. Brett is not going to tell us how these were made and some of the common reasons often given as to the why. What's What's that stuff? Yeah. So, first off, if you look at it closely, it looks like this was made by just displacing the dirt. So, typically they're about four to six inches deep. They range from about one to seven feet wide. And basically where the sand has got so much iron oxide, it's very red. So, just displacing a few inches of dirt, can know, exposes the lighter yellowish-gray subsoil beneath the iron oxide. ⁓ and this can be proven just by digging a little bit into the dirt around the area. One thing, as Jerry was talking about, these things have lasted for, you know, at this point, thousands of years. ⁓ But the reason most scientists believe that is because the area gets barely any rain, so there's hardly any erosion. there's hardly any wind that would displace the dirt. So somehow, and I think that was the most miraculous thing to me whenever I started researching. It's the fact that you're telling me that you just a shovel, dug six inches deep and this is still here. I mean, you build a fence, you dig like three feet deep to get below the frost line, that thing's rotted in a few years. So how do they do this? So there's definitely a lot of debate. ⁓ Steve's gonna get into more of the conspiracy type things. I'm gonna talk about some of the things that, if we assume that the Nazca people built, that they built these and they did it themselves, there's a few different ways they could have done that. ⁓ The first way is just using wooden stakes and ropes. ⁓ So there's straight lines that go on for, I think the longest one is what, about a quarter mile? As far as the picture. ⁓ And ⁓ these things go on for miles. And Jerry, we were talking about this earlier, but over a mile's distance, you're only displacing four feet, or four yards, sorry, four yards. Extremely accurate. So it's extremely straight lines. ⁓ Yeah, mean, just think about how long a mile is. And it's amazing. So basically these spirals and curves were created by tying ropes to central posts. ⁓ One of the theories is that ⁓ they would rotate around that post and then just use basic measuring cords to ensure the geometric accuracy. And there's actual wooden stakes that have been recovered at the ends of many of these lines and they are carbon dated to the exact same time period which is about 500 BC to 500 AD which proves that they were well done means they tasted like crap. I tell you what, they were probably as stiff as a hockey puck. They were probably delicious. scientists say they have zero moisture, kind of what we've been telling you. That's probably why they blacked us out. By the way, for those that have no idea where we're going with this tangent, Mr. Steve swears by and will only eat well done steaks. And by well done, we mean hockey pucks. No, we just mean not pink, not dry, zero moisture. He likes to chew that thing for an hour. I met. That's so not true. The other day. I made steak and mine was a well done New York strip and it was delicious. Smooth butter, smooth, not chewy. Y'all just going to see our advertisement for our jerky sponsors at the end of the show. So one other method ⁓ That it's theorized that they use is just using a scale design for the figures there like a lot of these pictures you can find they've uncovered ⁓ pottery and things like that that Have these same images on them like I know I know the monkey the the killer whale those can all be found on pottery basically They would use this scale design It's like a smaller picture and then use a grid system overlaid on top of that. then using both of those, they would create a bigger grid system and then that would help them keep the image more accurate. Can I interrupt for one second? Yeah. For anyone that thinks that this civilization, almost 2000 years old, wouldn't have been capable of that, these are the same people that built Puglio. an irrigation system so advanced, so well designed, built almost 2000 years ago. 36 of them are still functioning, working today. He's got a rep for his people. Yeah. No, yeah, and that's just that we talked about this last week when we were preparing for it. I feel like we as we're, you know, we're technologically advanced now. We all, we just look back to the past and all those people were stupid. They weren't stupid. They probably just as smart, if not smarter than we are now. They just didn't have the same tools that we have. So they had to be creative in what they did. And both of the, in both of these methods, it was probably, I mean, it was a combination of the two. There was actually a study done by Joe Nichols in 1982. So he had a small team of about five people. They recreated a 440-foot NASCA Condor in a Kentucky field. They started with a small drawing and then plotted points by scaling coordinates with ropes. And then they had wooden sticks similar to the ones that they found. And then They didn't have any aerial view at all for this. They completed it in just a few days. And the design that they chose to do was one of the more complicated designs. It proved that complex figures could be enlarged proportionally from the ground using only the tools that the Nazca people would have. ⁓ So, this definitely could have been done. I was telling, we were talking about it last week, this is one of the first conspiracies that we've done where, I mean, I don't want to give too much away, but after doing all the research, I was like, there's no way that, this seems super unlikely that anybody other than the Nazca people, maybe, I think. And Steve's hopefully going to prove us wrong. Because that'll make it more interesting. So there's been multiple experiments replicating the long straight lines, the trapezoids, the spirals, again using these same tools. So again, this is just something that has been repeated over and over. ⁓ Theories of... Now why, I think the big question is why do these things exist? Why did they create these things? ⁓ Because even though it can be done, I mean, this would take a lot of time, a lot of planning, a lot of effort. And for something that's not really useful, I mean, it's just a picture in the middle of desert. You can't even really appreciate it because at this time they didn't have any sort of ⁓ machine that can fly in the air. Or did they? Or did they? Yeah. But ⁓ one theory about their purpose as Jerry was kind of talking about. ⁓ Early researchers such as Paul Kosak and Maria ⁓ Reishi proposed the lines and figures aligned with the solstice, ⁓ some of them aligned with sunrises, celestial vents, and they basically functioned as a giant calendar. So that's one theory. Another theory is that it's used for religious rituals for water and fertility. ⁓ This is supported by Johann Reinhardt and Anthony Avini. Basically holds that the straight lines and trapezoids served as a ceremonial pathway where people gathered to perform rituals honoring deities, pleading for rain, or fertile crops in the arid desert. Again, these people had hardly any water. I'm reading Dune right now, and this reminds me that it's just a big desert planet, and the water is the biggest. It's the most scarce material. I interject? I watched a video the other day of and I always forget this guy's name. He's a he's kind of like Who's the one guy we talk about Neil Neil deGrasse Tyson? This is the other guy that does all the videos and the thing No, he said, you know what the rarest material is in the entire universe. What? You want to take a guess? I've heard this, but I do not. I heard it too. can't remember what it was. It's something that you would never guess if you guessed a million times. Right. It's wood. Yes. Oh, that's what it was. Yeah. Because for a planet to be able to have all the things, is crazy, wood is so unheard of. anyway, sorry, I didn't interrupt you, but no, yeah. Before you go on, would, if I remember correctly, You mentioned ritual pathways was one of the things. they, have archaeologists not found evidence that many of these lines show evidence of wear patterns, which would indicate that a lot of people have walked them? Right. Yeah. Which would kind of back that theory up. too. Yeah. And even some of the animals, like the, I know the monkey, it's got like nine fingers. And in this culture, if you're born with a deformity that was supposedly like you're blessed by a God. ⁓ I would y'all talk about these guys just taking time. We'll get into it. I'm You're just setting the stage for your conspiracy theories. I'm just telling no for, for realistic theories. So, ⁓ there's been a bunch of recent studies, especially in like the last five to eight, seven years. ⁓ and they've been using AI. as a tool to try and find more of these geoglyphs. I think they found around 400 of these. Jerry kind of talked about the institute that's performing these tests. That's just amazing to me too. Because even if you think back to the 20s, that's over 100 years ago. I know Jerry, it's gone by quick. It's over 100 years now. Just think about 100 years. Just in 100 years, we've gotten the internet. We've been through World War I, World War II. You all these other wars, we've gotten, we've gotten flight, which I guess that's one of reasons why we know about this. we found out about it. ⁓ Now we got AI. mean, the amount of stuff that's happened in the last hundred years is crazy. And yet we're still discovering more of these things. I think that's really amazing. I agree. And also begs the question, how many more are there? Yeah, right. Yeah. What have we not found? And, and it really, it seems very likely that there may have been more and they could have been damaged or destroyed. And I think that's one of the reasons AI has helped so much is because that has happened. And a lot of those that we found recently are smaller. Speaking of AI, I just want to throw this out there. Next week, we have a very special encounters. We have a one man wrecking crew trying to stop slow down. A little bit. In his own particular way. So be sure to join encounters next week. Awesome interview with a former past guest. Former past. Correct. Yeah. And so we talked about, we talked about before the episode two that there's these, ⁓ these, ⁓ geolifts, they're not isolated to this area. They can be found all over the world, which Again, begs the question, why did all these different people who'd have no communication with each other whatsoever, other than Jerry going back and forth on his boat, that's when the conspiracy theories start to, it's kind of like dragons, like how all these civilizations have pictures of dragons and things like that. I think that kind of feels like that. So what you think about that, Steve? Well, some the geolifts like we have here locally, and I say locally in the Eastern United States are different in sort of ways. These, they were made by excavating five, six inches of dirt and being done with it. If you take a place like the Great Serpent Mount in Ohio, that was a... an undertaking of epic proportions because they had to not, they didn't just move dirt. They mounted it. And to be able to appreciate how this, the great serpent mountain in Ohio is, you have to be elevated. You have to be higher than a tree to really see the vastness of this, this megalith. Yeah. So this one's a little different and there are mountains around. So maybe they went up to the top of the mountain. was like, ⁓ look what we've done over the last, however long it took them to do one. that is true to a certain extent with all of them, whether it's a Nazca lines or wherever there are certain areas that give you a better view. Even so most say that they can't be fully seen and appreciated except from the air. Right. That's true for all of them. It doesn't matter. You mentioned the, ⁓ Serpent mound, is in one South, ⁓ South central, South Eastern Ohio. I will never go to the great serpent man. Yeah. experience. On my way home from his, I wrecked my water. These things are all over the world. Uffington white horse in England, the Otakama giant and chili, the blight into lows in the Colorado desert in California, the Sahama lions in Bolivia. Brett's right. They were doing similar things. spread out over the upington white horse seventeen hundred to one thousand bc this one somewhere around ⁓ the article in giant a thousand fourteen entered a d spread out over a few thousand years but they were doing similar things around the world i agree that's what begins to make some of the conspiracy theories sound not quite as crazy So let's just get started with the big one, shall we? If you're going to make a huge creation that is only seeable from the air, the question begs, why would you make that? And wouldn't you make that for the gods? You mentioned, I think, Eric Van Daniken in his book, Chariots of the Gods. One of my very favorite books, I think he's wrong on this one. But so much of that book, if you read it is legit and it has been proven. know you, you, said that a lot of scientists are like, that whole books nonsense, it really, didn't say that. said almost all scientists say that his beliefs on the Nazca lines have been disproven. Yeah. Just for the Nazca lines, not the whole book. So the theory that refuses to die and it basically is that the Nazca lines were built as like runways or signals for extraterrestrials to bring them back. ⁓ people point to the scale about how big they are, ⁓ how perfect for the time they are. mean, obviously they're not, you know, computer generated perfect, but they are perfect for the time and that they're too aerial, which begs the question, why would you spend the time in your We have to imagine that these people were working every day to eat. So why would you take time away from gathering food, growing food, creating food, ⁓ to make hundreds of these? It's not, it's not one or two, it's hundreds. And we're finding more every day. ⁓ it's a very seductive thought, a desert full of landing strips, civilizations that are just simply carving messages into the side, the sky. ⁓ you can see some of these from the foot heels that are not far away and that's facts. There's no disputing, but the majority of these to fully appreciate the scale and to fully appreciate everything it is, you have to be above them. So one of the other theories, and this is the one that just makes Jerry's skin crawl. And I love it. That's why I had to bring it in. Is the ancient hot air balloon theory. theory that the Nazca people had actually achieved flight, not flight say, or, you know, orville and Wilbur Wright, not powered flight, powered flight, but that they had created hot air balloons from reads and cotton in the 1970s, a researcher even built one to prove that it could be done. And it did lift off, although briefly. Here's the problem with that theory. There's really no archaeological evidence that Nazca ever built anything like this. There's no remnants. There's no depictions. It would seem to me that if you were able to fly, you would put that on your pottery. They put their whale and some of the pictures from the Nazca lines on their pottery, but not a balloon of any variety of any shape. Even the Egyptians did that in their hieroglyphs. But if you want to be able to appreciate something without it being for aliens, hot air balloon is a conspiracy, or is a theory. The star maps is another popular idea. The lines are a giant astronomical carrot calendar. Jerry, you brought that up. A map of solstices, star paths, and seasonal markers. Some alignments are actually real. Others, probably not so much. What's the word Patagonia? Where humans see what they want to see as opposed to what they actually see. ⁓ so give us a few lines in the night sky and we'll find the meaning, whether it's there or not is basically that theory. ⁓ however, this theory does tap into something ancient. The idea of the early civilizations because of whatever reason, watch the heavens with a devotion that we have no idea. If I having lived out West, having lived in Idaho and driven through Montana in the middle of the night. when they say big sky country, that's not an exaggeration. I would encourage everyone to get out away from your town, go as far away from the city as you can on a clear night and just look up. We don't take time for that anymore. Back there, back then, if they couldn't sleep or they didn't have to, that's what they did was they, didn't have TV to distract them. Right. Or so right. So they, they had a lot more time for checking out the stars and such. This one is one that I'm not very much into, but I want to bring it up because it is. And that's the law of civilization and advanced tech. And I don't want to bring this up and I don't believe in it because what's wrong with the Nazca being like Jerry said earlier, smart enough to do this or just because like you said, they were ancient. Doesn't mean they were not bright, not intelligent. The belief that the Nazca lines require technology or knowledge that shouldn't have existed at the time, like advanced surveying tools, mathematical systems beyond their era. or maybe even something like a primitive GPS. This isn't really a theory about the Nazca at all. It's about us and our tendency to underestimate ancient people. They say that the pyramids were built with a plumb bob and a lever. I don't believe that, but that's what they say. And there's no reason for us to have doubt that these people couldn't have achieved this particular site. I mean all you had to do was have a shovel in a way to measure the lines. They could have had the same guy lay out in the same positions just to measure off a hill. It's doable. Have you guys ever seen the videos of those? I mean they look like they're in the middle of nowhere. I don't know, like in a jungle essentially. And they just use the clay and leave their house in the grass and sticks. They build a whole house. With a stick. Yeah. There ain't no way I'm doing that. You know what I mean? But they do it. But if it was a matter of life and death like it was back then, Yeah. Some of them would have to do it. All of your time is going to be devoted to perfecting that skill. Yeah. Well, there's also a more mystical angle. The idea that the lines were actually ritual pathways. And this is the only one where walking the things make any sense at all. Because I have a real hard time believing not that they built them. think that they did, but that they also just took the time to walk them all the time. I mean, no wonder they're no longer a people because they didn't do anything but walk these damn lines. I was going to ask that. That was kind of the question I had with the whole balloon theory. Like these people struggled just to grow their, you know, their food. They struggled to get water and they didn't have paper. So they passed all this information on through like word of mouth, know, passed it from father to son. I mean the hot air balloon technology, it's not like it's completely straightforward. Like I would have never come up with it, you know what mean? So the fact that they would have spent all that time just to look at some lines in the dirt, it doesn't seem very likely. But that's not the purpose of flight. Is that why the Wright brothers decided to invent a plane to look at some lines on the earth? No. Obviously flight... has been a dream of mankind since we birds probably. So I think there, yeah, there are many other reasons that you would try to figure out how to, but if they really didn't discover it, they would have been far and away from every other civilization. isolated civilization. How could they have kept that a secret? How would not everyone have known so far of everything? All of those were on the same. I've got to say, all the conspiracy theories you've mentioned so far, to me it's up toward the top. It's more believable. What's that? The balloon theory. That is crazy. You think this is more believable than aliens runways for aliens? Oh, just for this topic. Some of these are 80 miles long. was like, whoa. No, no. Of the conspiracy theories he's brought up, it makes more sense than the others. The spiritual theory. has a thought that these were ritual pathways and that walking them, they weren't actually meant to be seen from above at all. That they were actually been, they were meant to be felt through the ground. That it was a rite of passage, that it was a something. And the reason that there were so many is because you would advance yourself as you walk the lines, if you will. Maybe that's what Johnny Cash's whole song was about. I don't know, but. It would be a good example. Going along with that, think I've also heard that there is some evidence that there were certain religious buildings at the ends of some of these lines, which were given the reason for people to walk the lines to get to this religious ceremonial building. Basically, it kind of blends archaeology with choreography on the desert floor, which is kind of to me. The reality and the reasons that the mystery endures is what we actually know. Nazca people that created these lines did so by removing dark stones to reveal lighter stone underneath. They use simple tools, they work with precision, and they likely tied the designs to either water, fertility, or ritual, things that mattered most in the desert where survival was a daily negotiation. Truth is we don't know. We don't have Jerry can't remember. So right. And then it is that part that keeps these weird and odd conspiracies alive. You know, as humans, we try to plug in answers. Absolutely. We're curious. So I personally, uh, I don't know how I'll follow this. I have, I guess, I guess the answer is for me, I don't have any doubt that the NASCA people made them. For me, the question is why they made them. For who did they make them? And I'll bring it up because I want to talk about a couple in that are very specific. The one that Eric Vondanekin shows in his book of the runway looks like a modern day runway by all accounts. So there's any line with street blind, does it not? Would not any long straight line in the desert look like a runway? Possibly, but this one, you know, looks it is skinnier on one end, longer on the other end where you would land and take your time to at the fat end you would you would stop there. It looks like a runway. But it's like art. I'm sure there's like, you know, different theories about what alien ships could do or. But like, aren't most alien ships, they're just like so technologically advanced, just... Vertical takeoff. Yeah, vertical takeoff and landing, where they don't really need a runway. But, no, no. In this case, these aliens had the exact opposite ships. We had to build runways as long as 80 miles long. So yeah, some aliens, takeoff. Maybe, maybe the aliens that were the... depicted in some of their NASC lines were of the tick-tock variety and not the little saucer variety. And they have a required longer required landing strip. don't know, Jerry, but I agree with Brett. The runway theory doesn't make sense. And here's why. If you're going to build runways, build runways. And there's certain lines that totally agree. Kind of look like runways from above. If you're going to build runways, why did you build a runways and then think, Hmm, This was really fun. Let me build 18 times more than what I've already done in geometric shapes in condors and humming. Why? If you're building runways, why did you not stop with runways and continue and build way more than because you are trying. Here's my theory. Follow me. can do this is simply coming from me. That's all you get. Our theory is if I am a civilization. who has struggled to do all the things to exist because I live in a desert. And one day I am visited and let's just throw it out there for shits and giggles. I am visited by an alien that shows me how to do something, shows me a better way, shows me anything. And I ain't coming to ship that I, I mean, you have to understand flight was not a thing. birds flew. All they think that flew besides birds were guys. Well, how would they even know that you would need a runway? Did these people even have the wheel? I don't even know. The thing is not that I know. Yeah, I don't think so. To, to finish my thought with what Jerry was saying, even if it's not a road, you are showing. And the reason that makes the most sense if aliens are the answer and you want to know why they build a whale and all these other six, 800 different Because once those people left, left a huge, whatever they were, your civilization now has a huge hole and all you want are those people to come back. So you do these in hopes that they don't, that when they come back, they can see you and see where you're at. was part of very. Exactly. to me, part of it was trying to lure them back. Yeah. Or say, Hey, we're still here. Come see us. This is to you. The perfect example of that is what's called the astronaut. which is on the side of the mountain. There are, there are human, the Lord's human. I don't think it's human. It doesn't look human to me. If you look like that, it would be human. If you were a kid that drew a human, if you were your grandson, drew what a human looked like. That's what it looks kind of, well, guess what else looks like a tall gray. But if you look at the, like, if you look at the killer whale, for example, it's not an exact picture of a killer whale. It's kind of style. It's stylized. It's kind of like they got their own artistic flavor essentially. I do see what saying. It does not look human. It looks way more alien. As far as what we imagine aliens look like. But to these people, it's just a humanoid creature. Here's what I believe. Sorry, dinner. Here's what I believe. I believe about 75 % of what you said. All of it. Except that the aliens came. We know that throughout history, we have looked to the skies and believe there was God's. Abraham Lincoln once said, a man that can look into the skies and say there is no God is surely a fool. think that mentality has been around since the very beginning. When you look around, just kind of know we didn't do this on our own. Something had to create this. So whether they had the Bible and believed in the one true God that we believe in, or they believed that there was a multitude of God. We know that throughout history people have believed that there aren't a God or gods and It's always up in the sky. I've never heard of a religion that believes gods down on the ground They're always looking into the sky. So I think even if the aliens never came maybe it's the same deal I don't think the aliens had to actually come for them to try to attract the aliens to come and maybe this was simply that here's the one thing that tends to make me believe that maybe it was a bit more than just a, a God that lives in the sky. And it is called, and I'm sure you guys saw it, the Indian Mandela in the Nazca lines, the geometric shape of two squares, ⁓ isometrically opposed together with the circle in the center, which is by all accounts, perfect in every way, right angles. Perfect sphere in the center, perfect shapes, ⁓ whole nother blocks of boxes. These aren't almost perfect like some of the animals. These are exactly perfect. And I am all on board with the NASCA people alone can draw animals. looked like my son did, you know, my grandson did it, right? In the dirt. But when you start putting these in, and they're perfect. Well, now I'm not saying that ⁓ it's like a three year old, because if you look at Van Gogh, example, his pictures are not exactly what you would envision. If he drew the sky, just think of his famous painting, what's it called? Is it called the night sky? Yeah. That picture does not look like if you took a picture of the night It's stylized. It's got his own artistic flavor. Like the monkey. ⁓ Like, I mean, it looks like a monkey, obviously, but it's also like, not a picture perfect, like, exact replica of a monkey, you know what mean? Van Gogh isn't painting on the desert floor either. But he wasn't drawing squares either. Right. Squares are really easy to get perfect. But not the circles within them. I couldn't draw a perfect square. Well, this is where the grid system comes to make a perfect circle? You put a stick in the ground and take a... String and walk around. Yeah, it's a you a perfect circle search screen starts going around your stick and then your circle That's you do a perfect. So I'm just saying the circles and the squares are some of the easiest geometric shapes There is I'm not saying that that's the answer. I'm just saying they're not that tough to do perfect squares in perfect circles Which is kind of what you're Nick? some questions I ask you, I don't think you ever directly, yeah, you did. You kind of answered if it was runways, why, ⁓ by the others, you did answer that another question for you. Why do you think Eric Von Daniken's theory that he expoused in chariots of the gods for the Natsuka lines became so popular, even though the vast majority of scientists don't believe it? I think that in that particular case, He was the first to bring them mainstream and he answered like so many conspiracies. There's a nugget there that people can grab onto and run with. And I believe that your answer probably it's just believable enough that it makes sense. to be fair, a lot of these conspiracy theories are not mainstream. I mean, we just talked about even the script. It's just as one example. mean, scientists Widely disputed that at the existence of anything like this. So I think when you're getting into conspiracies in general, there's like a, it was like an air of like, well, you're kind of going against the grain here on these police. I will say that as we progress in 2026, it's a good year to be a conspiracy theorist because we're being right on a lot of stuff. Just bringing it up there. Like what pyramids. Take the pyramids. All the other stuff that we're not going to get into in this show today. Don't throw out a teaser of how we're conspiracy theorists are being right. I don't know of once we are one example, not one so much. So we look at aliens. Nothing's been the government is about nothing. been said. They've all been saying we just had a Harvard professor said, us that for months that all this asteroid coming in is actually a mothership of like what That you know who would say that finally walked that theory back, you know that right? Of course We all knew that it wasn't yeah, and you said that long time. Yeah, but like he Like it for somebody to say that out loud Back at 20 years ago. I it was nuts. But do you not think he was what's his name? I'll be look Yes, do you not think he was just gaslighting us trying to get more interest in the whole field? I thought that from the very beginning that he didn't believe it. He worded He was so careful in the way he worded things to word that it wouldn't destroy his reputation, even though he was making these outlandish claims. But I just thought he's gaslighting us. And I thought it was very smart of him to play it that way because him and what he had to say drew so much interest in that whole, not only the meteor, which I know you probably still don't think it is a meteor, but not only, no, he never did. Not only, it drew interest not only to that meteor, but to the entire field. Study so I think it was very smart of him to take that I think that in mua mama or whatever you want to call it both pros Absolutely, I don't think they were alien shit was a neat right like I don't think we ever seen an asteroid like it where we have is very different like this only color and Interstellar object three. I have exactly there's only the third one ever so There's only two before to go where the odds it might be different size is pretty small exactly Question for you, Brooke. I'm sorry. No, I was just saying, but only raises the opportunities because I did for me to be right. Well, yeah, anything over zero was raises the odds. So questions. How do you think they were able to do this with such precision? A couple of examples. Some of the straight lines, miles and miles long. We know that these things deviated less than four yards over the course of several miles over very uneven terrain. The monkey's tail is an almost perfect mathematical spiral. These guys didn't have GPS. These guys didn't have LIDAR laser levels. How were they so I think that the grid system definitely would help this. I don't know if you remember, I don't know if they had coloring books back when you were a kid, when I was a kid, they had these coloring books and you would, like on one page, you'd have a picture and it would have the grids and then on the other side, they would have just the grid so you could like copy. And it made it so much easier to draw this picture. think it's kind of similar in that. I think that's definitely how they. would have done it. Again, they were smarter than we often get. So clever. Even just what they did with aqueducts. These people were obviously very, very intelligent. Absolutely agree. Any questions for me on my part? do. I want to add. want to not ask a question, but I do want to say, since we're talking about seeing things from above that today was a very, ⁓ almost a lost historical day. yeah, there's just so much going on, It's just kind of, it's just kind of where you're sending our dudes. got four folks, three Americans and one Canadian. on the way to the moon right now. We're about to break a record, right? Yep. They're going farther out than any human has ever gone. Over a thousand, their entire outer loop around the out, the dark side of the moon is over a thousand miles away. They're doing that to see A, if we can go that far B to get the widest views up close of the moon as we've ever had. Um, and they're not actually landing on the moon this time. the next flight, they're checking all the systems to make sure that that's feasible and that's doable and that everything works. But man, congratulations to NASA. I hope that Artemis One comes home safe and sound. What an awesome, awesome time to be alive. We watched, if you were talking about, and you were talking about, you know, flight and the Wright brothers and these folks in NASCA who spent times looking at the obviously looking up. are our generation, us living right now have seen a sunset from a different planet. And most people don't know that that footage exists because they're so wrapped up in their day, you know, going to work, raising their kids, paying the bills. We've literally witnessed a sunset from Mars. Yeah, that's unbelievable. What? It's crazy to me, but I just wanted to bring that up. Congratulations. I did find it a bit funny and I'm sure there's going to be a conspiracy theory about it because it launched on April 1st, April Fool's day. you know, leave it to NASA. You admit that it takes so little to start your conspiracy. just takes a great, let me ask you all real quick. If you had the opportunity to kiss mutually effect conversations about this, you had the opportunity to like say they were like, all right, You're where you're out. You guys are being picked for this this Artemis to flight. Are you would you do it? Absolutely. We didn't even we didn't even think twice. That's how I so I actually like what if you died? Well, I'm to die. None of us. Yeah, I'm like young kids at home. Yeah, I still think I would. It would be hard to turn down. It would. Absolutely. You're nobody is getting out of here a lot. Why would John if I'm going to die, I would much rather be such a cool way to die. Wouldn't it though? mean, hey, you're going to be immortalized. mean, it's suffering, but like it would be if I'm dying, that's the way I want to go. You wouldn't know it before you were dead. You know, you know, unfortunately it would be very similar to what happened on that little submarine. Those guys didn't have, they had no clue. It instantaneous at least. had no clue that they were dead before they were. So let me ask you both this. Do you think that. Does discovery from these Nazca or of these Nazca lines from the sky, do you think that changed how we view ancient civilizations at all? Or do you think it really, it really didn't change since we had, you know, things like the pyramids? think the answer is yes and no. I'll explain it like this. Before we did Natsuka lines, before you started your research, how much did you know about the Natsuka lines? Barely anything. So if you know barely anything, and I'm not picking on you, that's all three of us, that's the vast majority of the world. So if the vast majority of the world doesn't know anything about it, how could it have changed the opinion? For those who did take the time to look into it and had read, I'm sure they're like, dang, how could they have done Some of these people have devoted their whole lives to So for those that looked into it, probably hugely changed our opinion of the older people. vast majority of us, as Steve just said, we're too busy living our lives and putting food on the table to even wonder about the Nats. As an example, and I'll go back to the Great Serpent Mountain, it's less than two hours from Cincinnati. It's a city of 30 million people. And when I went there, I was probably one of 10 people there. How many people do you know that's even been there? Or even heard of it? Yeah. And that is a, that is a unbelievable, like you see it and you walk it. can walk around the whole thing. They have a walking trail and you're like, many freaking people did it take with a pickaxe and a shovel to make this thing? live in Kentucky close to the man with cave. How many people do you know? It's never been there. majority of the people I know have never been there. ⁓ hard of it. Been able to go. Never have. That's sad. We too caught up in the minutia of life. I absolutely got freaking Isaac Newton's signature on the wall, which is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, Brett will start, since you, this is your last show for awhile. Thumbs up, thumbs down. So when he talked more about the Nazca line, think thumbs up and the framework of like ancient civilizations and just understand what these people did, what these people were capable of. think thumbs up in that regard. All the conspiracies big thumbs down. I know. I agree. The main reason I have to give it a thumbs up overall is we still don't know the why. So until then it days more discussion, but I agree also that I don't believe in the conspiracy theories. We don't, we don't know the why and we don't know how many are there. We're still discovering them every day. mean, it's, know, there's hundreds. I'm going to say thumbs up and thumbs up because I'm a big believer you don't do something for no reason, especially when you're fighting for survival. There's a reason that they put them out there. Do we have that conspiracy? Did we cover that conspiracy yet? Maybe not. Does it mean there isn't one? Maybe not. So thumbs up both ways for me. Since we were talking about Peru Peru today and, the Nascar lines, I thought it'd be a great opportunity to talk about the Peruvian mummies. They captured the global attention in the last decade, even though they weren't traditional, well documented, Indian mummies found in archeological context. Instead, they were a set of unusual small body remains presented as non-human or alien. by fringe researchers and media personalities. These figures were known to sh- are shown with elongated skulls, three-fingered hands, and pale plaster coat-like coating that immediately raised questions. Peruvian archaeologists, forensic experts, and government officials quickly pushed back stating that the remains appear to be heavily altered, a combination of ancient human bones rearranged and modified to create the sensational appearance. Multiple scientific reviews concluded that these specimens lacked proper excavation records, legal providence, and credible anatomical consistency. Despite the scientific consensus, the mummies became a lightning rod for conspiracy theories. Some people claimed that they were evidence of extraterrestrial contact, suppressed archaeology, or a lost species hidden by government. Others argue that the controversy reflected a deeper cultural issue, the exploitation of indigenous heritage for viral spectacle. What makes these mamey so compelling isn't their authenticity, it's the psychological cocktail that they stirred up. They sit at the intersection of mystery, distrust, and our fascination with the unknown. In a way, they function like modern folk folk art artifacts that reveal more about our hopes, our fears and our imaginations than about ancient Peru itself.