Holly Toscanini: If you're in the middle of a season of life you didn't quite plan for, one where the life you thought you'd have just isn't the one that you're actually living, this episode is going to feel like maybe somebody finally said the quiet part out loud. Because today I'm sitting down with Kim Coco, author, yogi, kinesiology expert, and womanbehindswagtail.com. Now Kim has a master's degree in sports kinesiology and two 500 hour yoga teacher training certifications. Plus she has spent years teaching people how the mind and the body move through change together. She also knows what it's like when life shifts completely without asking for your permission. After losing her husband, Steven, her partner in life and in teaching, Kim had to figure out who she was and how to move forward when everything she'd built changed. The life lessons she learned became her book, Miracle on the Mountainside. And today she's here to share what she learned about fear. focus and what it actually looks like to rebuild yourself, not back to who you were, but forward into who you're becoming. Now this is a conversation I think a lot of you have been waiting for. So let's get started. Kim, welcome to How to Lose the Weight. I'm so excited to have you here.

Kym: Thank you for having me, it's a pleasure.

Holly Toscanini: Now, ⁓ your bio has like all the credentials, all the degrees, the certifications and the years of teaching. But I want to start somewhere just a little more personal. I want to know who were you before your life really shifted and what that shift changed for you.

Kym: That's a great question. I grew up as an athlete, so my family was very into movement and health. And my father became ill when I was younger, and he actually passed away from brain cancer when I was 13. And that spurred me into this direction to really understand our body and how it worked, because I didn't want to feel like a victim to something I didn't know about. I wanted to really fine tune this apparatus as best I could. Turns out, here I am in my master's program with a lot of stress and tension and a mind I can't turn off and a lot of negative emotions that I didn't have a handle on. And they were actually hurting a lot of the people I loved. That's when I found yoga and that practice gave me a way to integrate the mind and body in a new way. in a way that I could step back and appreciate the experience, learn about my emotions, what they meant, how to process them, how to step back and not necessarily judge the thoughts, but observe them and maybe use them as information to choose differently. I found that to be one of the best tools in conjunction with meeting Steve, my late husband, around that same time. He was teaching emotional kinesiology. So I had the sports kinesiology, he had emotional kinesiology and learning even more tools to fine tune the way we approach the whole body, the mind, using tools to tell the mind to communicate with the body and the body to understand what the mind is saying and really get my system on board so that I could not only create a life I loved, but have a vibrant sense of health and well-being and have a lot more fun as I've gone through life. And in fact, that foundation gave me the courage and a lot of clarity to step into caregiving for Steve in his final days.

Holly Toscanini: emotional kinesiology. I love that. Is that something that Steve developed himself? I've never heard of that. Tell me more.

Kym: think it seems like a very fancy way to talk about understanding how the emotions take shape in our body, whether that's moving through us, whether that's getting stuck and finding that maybe they're not in alignment with the goals we have for ourselves. And he found that as a technique to start to heal because he had actually gone through a really life-changing motorcycle accident. That's how the miracle on the mountainside begins. He's driving up a mountain road one summer day and hits shale and he tries to jump the guardrail so that he doesn't get smashed between it and the bike only to find out that there's a cliff on the other side and he goes tumbling down the cliff. Well, 28 reconstructive surgeries later. three years in a hospital bed and three more to learn how to walk. That was his opportunity to say, maybe what I was doing in the past wasn't working. Maybe that workaholic patterning I had, maybe the feeling of unworthiness, all of the things almost prevented him from not healing. He had to step into...

Holly Toscanini: Mm-hmm.

Kym: not waiting for other people to help heal him, but say, okay, I'm part of this process. I do want to live again. And the tools he learned between pain management, stress management, the emotional element became the emotional kinesiology package that he started to teach around the country and use with his clients.

Holly Toscanini: Wow. So Miracle on the Mountainside is the book that the two of you wrote together about his experience.

Kym: Yes, and what's very interesting is he became ill in 2021. He went into the hospital one weekend. We didn't think he would make it. He walked out 30 pounds lighter and it was an immediate wake up call to say, While we all have a limited contract here on earth, let's re-prioritize. Yours might be up sooner than we think. And so we simplified our lives. We would spend most mornings having a cup of coffee or tea together and we would tell stories. We had books we wanted to write in the future together. And many of the stories came out in snippets over the course of those hours we would have our dialogue. And part of this was a journey for me after because as you and I know, many conversations, they take tangents and they go in wild routes to get to a certain point. And throughout those, we had two years together. I did not actually start writing the book until maybe over a year and a half ago, let's say. So it was a process of taking our audio conversations, finding the stories that mattered most, and then putting them into a format that someone who might not have ever met Steve in life could still understand these snippets and these colorful experiences and why they meant so much to him and how we could take those own principles to benefit ourselves and our relationships.

Holly Toscanini: Okay. Amazing. So what really surprised you the most about yourself while you were going through all of this? I know that your husband was experiencing his own journey through all of this, but what did you find was happening most for you?

Kym: It was a practice of scaling back, asking for more help and being willing to give myself a lot of permission to do less and be there in different ways for the people I loved a lot and still do love a lot. Can we break those down a little bit? Because I think both of the, all of those have a lot of value. So let's talk about scaling back, for example. I have two plus decades of time on the mat of meditating and working to clean my mental house every day. It's like brushing your teeth. Well, when you're caring for someone full time, you don't know when they're going to need you. You might be up many nights, most nights for weeks on end. You don't know.

Holly Toscanini: Yes. Yes, absolutely.

Kym: And so I couldn't plan. I couldn't set aside 60 minutes to do a yoga class. I couldn't set aside time to meditate. And so I was really a great way to say, yes, these tools work to help regulate my nervous system, to help me stay centered, to appreciate life, even though it could be very challenging. But it was maybe 20 minutes here. Maybe sitting in a doctor's office, closing my eyes and breathing while we waited for the doctors to come in. Maybe it was... something as simple as doing some gentle stretching at night before bed for a few minutes. And so instead of having this all or nothing approach to these practices, it was really a great way to say they do work and they can be repurposed in a way that's going to suit you where you're at in your life. So I would say that's one good thing. Yes.

Holly Toscanini: Absolutely and you something else that you said is asking for help and I know so many women especially midlife women struggle with that so much and I can't imagine doing everything on your own but my guess is for a lot of people that's their first response is I'll just do it myself.

Kym: You know what's very interesting about that is you also might have a spouse that says, I don't want anybody else to take care of me. I don't want anybody else. I just want you. And that can be heartbreaking to hear that and still acknowledge, I hear you and we'll find somebody that works or maybe we can get a team of friends that will come over for short stints of time. And so I find it really interesting that

Holly Toscanini: I didn't think about that. Yeah, that's hard. Yeah.

Kym: we can go through and ask for help from people we know and people we don't know. So for example, I got help cleaning the house. I'd have helped getting groceries. And so asking for help in different ways and part of that was saying, how can I, let me think how I wanna phrase this. Many times it's not even asking for help in things we're going to do. It's saying, I just can't do more myself. Does that make sense? So it would say, ⁓

Holly Toscanini: Absolutely.

Kym: My family and friends, for example, please send me photos, send me the videos. Let me see my niece and nephew playing in the yard. I want to see your new puppy and your new kitten. I want to be part of your life. And at the same time, there were a lot of things I didn't want to talk about in my life. It just didn't feel very sexy. It wasn't exciting. And that's OK. So feeling connected to these people and also them knowing, hey, I'm I'm not able to share in the same way, but please include me. was the way I felt I could ask for help for the emotional support and I didn't feel alone in that.

Holly Toscanini: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's brilliant actually, because what I'm hearing is not only were you willing to ask for help, but you were also advocating for yourself and for your husband by setting some boundaries about what you were capable of, what you would allow other people to bring or do or say, but also saying, hey, I need to be a part of your lives. I just need to set a way for me to do that that feels safe and comfortable for me right now.

Kym: Yes, and you know what's interesting is many times people say, ⁓ but he's gone. It's going to go back to how it was, right? And they couldn't be further from the truth. We would talk about the wrecking ball of life has come in. It took down all these walls. The tools I've used for years help me still have a foundation. So I feel connected to who I am in Kim and I can let go of all those labels and the identities and the things that I've stayed connected to. Some are easier let go of than others. And once you have that foundation, it helps to have a priority, a priority of values maybe. I knew there were three things, we would simplify our life. Okay, what are the three priorities now? What are the three values that mean the most now? Those are the three values I used when I was post Steve saying, what am I gonna do with my time and energy and how much energy do I really have to pour into these relationships? and it was a good awakening to say they're not gonna go back to the way they were, how can we navigate this? Because there are people that still mean the world to me and I wanna be part of your life and I'm still finding out how I fit. How can I connect? Many times it's taking a stack of cards when I go have dinner by myself and I write cards to people. Sometimes it's as simple as keep inviting me. I will say yes. I just don't know when that's going to be. So please keep me in mind. I appreciate the texts. I appreciate the phone calls. And so letting people know that I'm still working through it. People think even once Steve was gone, it's going to go back to normal. Then a year, ⁓ it's going to go back to normal or whatever normal is.

Holly Toscanini: Yeah.

Kym: So this communication and navigating the changing terrain of relationships is really ongoing.

Holly Toscanini: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, there's usually a moment and it's not dramatic and sometimes it's actually pretty quiet where something really shifts from I'm surviving this to I might actually be okay. Did you have that moment? And if you did, what did it look like for you?

Kym: a great question. It started with my golf adventure. That was a conversation I had with a friend. I was passing through her neighborhood on my way to Southern California and we were just having tea by the fire. Her little dog Bentley was dropping his slobbery tennis ball at my feet because he knew he had a willing guest who was excited to play. And she said, well, I know you're writing Steve's book, but you should write a book of your own. And my mind in that flashback to 2022 while Steve and I were having the discussion of structure and the importance of structure once life gets thrown into chaos. And he would recommend his clients being working with a lot of grief and loss patients or individuals in his time. saying, okay, maybe it's helping somebody, maybe it's volunteering, maybe it's something steady. And I knew for myself, I like adventure, too much structure is stifling, so what would that look like for me? So back in 2022, I actually wrote this idea of a golf adventure, 100 new courses in honor of him, but also a way to carve out my life and new so that I wouldn't be tripping on these emotional landmines of places we had visited in the past. So over that conversation with Cece that night, it brought it back to, have now let go of the guilt of planning a new life, even planting those seeds when Steve was still in his body, going from a very wild, like, let's go wine tasting and do all the things Steve doesn't want to do. That was fun. I gave myself permission to do that. It was almost like being on vacation.

Holly Toscanini: You

Kym: And that had a realization that yes, I wanted Steve's pain to be gone, but in many cases I didn't want him to be gone. So I had to work through that. So when Cece said you should write the book, was, okay, now I'm ready. I have gone through this emotional roller coaster and said, yeah, I give myself permission to do something that is meaningful. I wrote the book while I was on the trip and... And it was a way to have this sense of structure while having space for spontaneity and intuition.

Holly Toscanini: Amazing. What a great gift to give yourself too, in terms of being able to do what you love, but shift it slightly so that it's more about you and your future and not as much about you and your past. I think that's really beautiful. And you stop sort of waiting for somebody to tell you it was okay. And a lot of the women I work with are in what I call waiting mode. They're waiting to feel ready or to grieve less or waiting for some signal or permission that it's okay to want things for yourself again. And it sounds like you kind of went through a small version of that yourself. Was there anything in that period that almost kept you stuck from doing it?

Kym: It was logistical. So we had had a house in California and Florida. I had a new van being built. I had to sell the old van. There were these practical matters that took more emotional energy than I anticipated. I thought we had made decisions. I was going to be ready, but the reality of time without someone you care about. And Steve and I worked together and traveled together for 12 years. So day in, day out, we were together, which is not necessarily normal. And so there was a lot of repatterning of, okay, well, he's just not here. Now I'm not trying to put somebody else's needs ahead of mine, especially in those final years. What does that look like to pay attention to me, to take care of me? What do I want to do? So I think you're right in that this idea of giving ourselves permission to step up and own it. I think I had to find a place of inner steadiness from which to be around people on a regular basis again, because there were many days, weeks, months. I wasn't even sure how to start those conversations. And that was okay. I thrived in nature. I thrived in writing. I did have the few people I connected with, but to do the golf adventure, that required a level of confidence again to start.

Holly Toscanini: Yeah. Mm-hmm. So a lot of the work that you do. A lot of the work that you do is really at the intersection of the mind and the body, which is exactly where I think rebuilding our lives actually happens. And when someone is in this sort of transition and they can't tell if what they're feeling is either fear or intuition, how do you help them figure that out? Is there some sort of a signal in your body that you point people to or how does that look like?

Kym: I think the differentiation to me is fear is constricting. And intuition feels like a calling. It's something you might have a sense of contentment or peace about on a mild level, or it could be over the moon excitement. And so instead of trying to avoid that inspiration of the intuition I feel calls you. And so yes, you're absolutely right. think having the awareness of tapping into the body, you can get a pretty quick read on what that is from the emotional standpoint or a physiological response.

Holly Toscanini: Now, working with kinesiology and your yoga background, you understand the nervous system in a way that a lot of people just don't and can't. So what do you think is the one thing women get wrong about why they feel frozen or stuck after a major life shift? What's actually happening with them physiologically?

Kym: I think there's a lot to be said about patterning. So I'll take my time with Steve, for example. I had the tools. I understand to go from sympathetic to parasympathetic, that fight, flight, freeze, to calm, rested, clear-headed, having our faculties about us to make those really great decisions for the next moment and the next moment and the next moment. Well, caring for someone. caused me to be in that very stressed out state a lot. I wasn't sure if Steve was going to sleep through the night. Was he going to live through the night? Was he going to fall again? Could he eat? And being on hyper alert just created a sense of memory in the body. And it was a constant, okay, stress, I have tools to calm back down. Ride the wave of the nervous system in hyper speed and calm it back down. And this idea that there was something wrong with that, I don't recommend that long term. It's nice to know that your nervous system is going to change. We don't want to stay in that hyper state, that stressed out, sympathetic state. And yet I think you picture these yogis sitting there zenned out and peaceful. That's unrealistic too.

Holly Toscanini: Yeah.

Kym: finding that inner balance, finding the flow state, finding the alignment, that parasympathetic response. Yes, we can memorize it and the more we practice it, the easier it is to find, which is why I think I was able to do so well in that stressful time. But there's a really a good reminder that your nervous system helps to serve you so that if there really is something that's going to endanger us, we can respond. So we're tuning into this understanding and then being able to say, okay, I have tools now, I can calm back down. I'm never gonna stay there in that perfectly calm space. It's not like a college degree that once I found it and I have it, it's there forevermore. We're learning, we're evolving, we're getting to know ourselves in these new ways. And so once you understand that you can ride the waves of the nervous system instead of trying to have to control them to look a certain way or be a certain way, I think we have a better relationship with our mind and our body.

Holly Toscanini: Absolutely. Would you just take our listeners through what riding the wave of the nervous system is for you? Kind of explain what that looks like and how one does that.

Kym: Sure. I think I'd like to use a golf example if I could. Because I think gaming, how we play and have this lightness in our life helps in whatever capacity that is. Golf doesn't have to be your thing. But this idea of showing up and being more vibrant and being in the moment, being in a sensory rich environment, again, steps us out of a pattern that might not be serving us. So that helps.

Holly Toscanini: Sure, absolutely.

Kym: But let's say you step up to the first tee. This happened to me a few times, but I'll give you an example when I was in Oregon. I take my first drive, I'm with strangers, so there's this social pressure. You want to show up, you want to be a good golfer. I'm the only female in the group. Many times that happens. So it can be easy to get in your head or constrict, feel the pressure, want to perform, but that's not how we usually perform at our best. So let's say, I hit a drive. So not only am I aware of the thoughts, I'm aware of my body tensing up. You don't want to constrict your swings. So you relax. You can kind of get back into the body, but my shot goes right. Almost out of bounds. Okay. That's an interesting miss. You get to the sand. It's a really interesting, you're on this dune. Okay. Well that's interesting. So you recalibrate. What can I use here? How can I, I'm aware of the tension. I'm aware of the pressure now. I'm aware of the change situation, but there's still an element of wanting to perform. to have things go perfect. And interestingly, I shot a seven on the first hole. Stress, constriction, not my best mechanics. It creates this lapse in coordination. you have to, I would have to say, okay, well, just the next shot, just the next shot. Well, I could let go of the first hole and say, okay. the nervous system, I was stressed, I was tight, was in my own head, I could feel viscerally a sense of contraction, of stiffness, higher heartbeats. And so, even though I couldn't control it shot by shot on the first hole, There was a new segment, an opportunity to pick up my bags, walk to the next hole, take a couple deep rounds of breath, and say, one shot at a time. So using the breath as a way to start to bring the heart back into coherence, I started looking around what else is in nature in harmony. Look at the grass growing. How many blades of grass are on this golf course? You can hear the sound of the waves in the background. I could feel my feet on the ground. So tuning into those sensations that were different where harmony was the focus instead of performance outcome, something I couldn't control. And then what was really wonderful is I could step into those moments remembering the sensory experiences, the calm, the grounded, the breathing, the space between my thoughts, the space around me and shoot the best round of the season. So there's a resilience element in that too because things can go haywire, the system can ramp up completely and yet for the ability to come back and then sustain a more peaceful state is possible and repeatable.

Holly Toscanini: Amazing. Absolutely. And it sounds like a lot of that is based on trusting yourself because rebuilding self-trust is something I talk about constantly because when life falls apart, that's usually the first thing that goes down with it. So when it comes to self-trust, how do you help someone start trusting themselves again when they genuinely don't know what's going to come next in their

Kym: That's great. I love, I use the pivot analogy because it's golf related. You pivot to swing, you pivot, have a chance to change course every shot, but there's a pause element. So this idea of creating space in our life, whether it's those micro moments where you disconnect from whatever's around you. the idea that you can open up the gateway for inspiration and ideas or just to breathe, to re-center in whatever moment you're in. That's one of the best tools, I think. So that pause to actually hear what we need and want. That's a good element of building self-trust. Intentions. Understanding, again, what we want and what we want going forward because we are constantly becoming. So... being able to identify even the broadest sense of what we want and then let the details fill in as we start to get a feeling element of it and then taking those intentions and giving them sensory data. Like how would that feel? What does that look like? What would I hear people saying? What would I say to myself? Really bringing just an idea into the body as best as possible. So that's another way to start building trust.

Holly Toscanini: Yeah, and it sounds like a lot of what you're doing is incorporating sort of ⁓ grounding elements and reconnecting to something bigger than kind of what your mind is doing at the moment so that you can focus on really being in alignment with your body. You know, when I'm listening to you talk about golfing, it sounds like you grounded yourself, you reconnected with nature and sort of the big picture, and then you were able to focus and do a much better job kind of hitting the shot that you wanted to hit.

Kym: Yes, and what I love about that is it goes back to basics. There are so many foundational elements. The skills of golf are there. I see so many people that can warm up on the range and they hit really well and then they get to the first tee and it's like they forgot everything they knew. So instead of having that disconnect, the self-trust comes in saying, let's go back to the basics. I know I have these skills. Practice on repeat. So when I wasn't playing, I would practice 40 putts in a row making them. How boring is that at four feet? That's not that exciting. And the foundational elements of what we do day in, day out to build the trust, whether it's that time for yourself or writing in your journal or connecting in whatever way you've found those tools that you found work for you. Repeating those things that seem very simple have really profound, long lasting effects.

Holly Toscanini: ⁓ absolutely. Could you think of maybe one practice, something a listener could do in, I don't know, under three minutes that can genuinely help when the anxiety is spiking and maybe the overthinking just won't quit?

Kym: Yes, my favorite one, actually I was using it this morning because life happens and you get an opportunity to pivot. Our breath is so wonderful. And when you start to shift the breathing from just reactive to purposeful. So for example, I would breathe into two, I'd take another sip of air in for, so that's essentially a three count in breath, but you break it up. there's this, you're stepping in back to control and you're pausing. And then I'd exhale to six. Inhale two, sip in a little bit more air to three, exhale to six. And so then you're also lengthening that exhale, which will start to help induce the parasympathetic nervous response and get you back into a calmer state. So something as simple as being aware of how you're breathing and start to shift it on purpose really is one of the best ways, I think, to step back into control and an uncontrollable situation.

Holly Toscanini: Absolutely. And I love that because so many times I have women that say, I just don't have the time for any kind of a practice right now, right? My life is too busy. So it sounds like this breathing is sort of your minimum effective dose for staying grounded.

Kym: Yes, and I heard this the other day and I thought it was genius. It's from Jefferson Fisher. His book is called The Next Conversation. It's fantastic. And he says, let your pause be your first word or let your breath be your first word. So even in communication, it's such a helpful tool to say, Okay, I'm gonna be deliberate in how I'm approaching this next moment, which gives us again a sense of more calm and contentment, or at least poise, as we're approaching what's next.

Holly Toscanini: Right. That's so important to remember because I think so often we rush to fill the silence. You know, if something uncomfortable happens, we want to over explain, we want to complain, we want to protest. You know, there's all these things that come up for us. want to whatever it might be. But just remembering that you don't have to automatically reply. You can take a pause. You can take just a moment and compose yourself or your thoughts or your energy before you say or do anything.

Kym: I actually usually write something at the top of my scorecard when I play.

Holly Toscanini: Yeah, so what I'm hearing is be grounded, right? Learn to ground yourself, especially in nature, to pause and take a moment just to sort of, I don't know, recalibrate, and then giving yourself permission to pivot and try something slightly different. It sounds like those are the things that really kind of came together. Yes, beautiful and beautifully said. So outside of taking the breath, what is a tool or a practice that you personally come back to the most? Maybe not what you teach, but what you actually use when you're the one who's feeling a little unsteady. Yeah. Yeah, and I love that because it doesn't require anything other than yourself. You know, don't need tools. You don't need to carry anything around with you. You don't need anything, just yourself and to remember the practice. So that sounds really powerful. Yeah. Wow. So ⁓ I want go back to the book for just a moment. So Miracle on the Mountainside. When a woman reads this book, what do you most hope she feels after she reads it? Not what she learns about your experience necessarily, but what do you want her to feel when she closes that last page? in that book. And I love that you just said that you don't have to wait for something big and dramatic to happen, right? You can give yourself permission to feel love and to want change or something more for yourself just because you want it. You don't have to wait for anything big to happen to give you any kind of a permission or impetus to make big change, right? It can just be, I woke up today, I'm gonna do something different. Yeah, yeah. Now know you've created a free training for listeners on boosting focus and overcoming fear in these transactions. Tell us about that. I can you give us a little insight from that training or something somebody can take into their week today? What will we get from this? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. So it sounds like what you're talking about is sort of a ⁓ focus, ⁓ excuse me, balancing of focus and play or focus and sort of letting go of things. Is that right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ I love that. Yeah, I love trust stamina. So one of the last questions I want to ask is this because I know someone is listening right now who is right in the middle of life and all of that, all that that implies. What's the one thing you want that woman who's kind of in the thick of it right now to hear? That was beautiful and beautifully said. Yeah, I think that is a mic drop moment for the entire conversation is that people need to remember that, especially women, especially those of us in midlife is that, you you're not ⁓ past it, you know, that there's still so much life left to live, even if you have gone through a loss. So I think that's, that's really beautiful. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. So, I gave you a little heads up at the beginning of our conversation that I was going to give you sort of my lightning round questions here. So we're going to keep it light. These are no brainer, so I don't want you to overthink the answers to these questions, but I got five of them. Here we go, are you ready? Okay, this one might be easy, because I think it plays off of what you just said, but what's a belief about rebuilding you wish women would just let go of? Perfect. What is the most underrated tool for a nervous system that just will not calm down? Perfect. What's one thing nature gives us that no app on your phone can ever replicate? ⁓ wow. I love that. Yes, you cannot smell through your app yet. Perfect. What is a sentence for a woman who's convinced it's too late, that there's just no hope it's too late? Done. I love it. ⁓ And finally, what is the best scenic vista that you've ever found in the Sprinter van? So if you haven't read the book, may not know about the Sprinter van, go read the book so you can get clued in. But what is the best scenic vista you've ever found in the Sprinter van? beautiful now I have to go because that was very well described. So ⁓ the whole van life is a thing that not everybody knows about or is into. I have maybe four on my block and my neighbors are very into it. So if you haven't ever considered a van, it is a combination of safety and freedom, but also getting you back in touch with nature. So yeah, all of the things about the van I'm all about here. This is great. Amazing. And I agree. Kim, this conversation was exactly what I'd hoped it would be. So thank you for being honest about the hard parts because that's where the real stuff really lies, right? I mean, that's what we need to know to get through. Tell everybody where they can find you. Perfect. Okay, everything's going to be in the show notes or the description. Kim's website at Swagtail.com. That's S-W-A-G-T-A-I-L.com. Her book, Miracle on the Mountainside and her free training at Swagtail.com slash podcast bonus. If this episode, I don't know, met you somewhere real today, I'm going to encourage you to share it with at least one woman who just really needs to hear this. She's probably waiting for permission to stop waiting. Thanks again, Kim. I really had enjoyed having you here today. Alright everybody, until next time, bye for now.