Friends of Disney: Okay, welcome back friends. Hi friends. So you might notice. We're missing Jonel of all people. Yeah, I know usually I'm the one who's missing due to... But I guess if you're not watching, you may not notice until now. ⁓ now we have our guest, which is Nova, who if... Those of you who don't know, Nova's our cat. And Nova does appear in many episodes if you're watching. But... do you have anything to say? Nope, Nova says nothing. yeah, Jo-Nel is homesick, so she wasn't able to record with us. So you get me and Megan for the first time, just the two of us. The couple! Do think there's any people who watch, who think we're just friends or or something? I have no idea. But yeah, we're talking about the live action Mulan. last week, yeah. Yeah, last week we talked about the animated, so if you haven't seen that episode, check it out. Also like and subscribe and comment to all the things. this week is going to be part two or we're going to tackle this as a live versus animated, episode. So we'll be comparing the live action to the animated. And then at the end we will give our own, we'll basically see ⁓ which will break it down by category of pace slash plot of the movie characters, ⁓ music. and overall aesthetic ⁓ see how the live action compared versus against the animation and see which one ⁓ does better on qualitative standpoint. That being this was both of our first time ⁓ watching the action Mulan all the way through. ⁓ think I two run ins with movie, if you can talk about it that way. ⁓ First our mutual friend twin. Hello twin. She's not actually twin. It's a long story she pirated this movie She's I'm gonna watch it and we were like, how was it and she was like it was really bad and we were like Okay, but I remember it was also like finals week or something. So we we were just like See, my memory of this movie was the marketing around this movie because ⁓ there was ton ⁓ of ⁓ that Disney marketed hard on this movie given that it was right post pandemic during like the 2020-2021 school year. like they marketed Christina Aguilera so hard because she had an original song called Loyal Brave and True, figure, for this movie and stuff. they marketed that song so heavily. don't think I've ever heard this song. To be fair though, during 2021 to 2022, I wasn't listening to music much. We were focused on a pandemic. The other run-in I had with this movie was there is this YouTuber I watch on occasion. Not that he's bad, but just like, I have so many interests that I don't watch the same YouTuber for long periods of time. And his name is John Solo and he breaks down like... fairy tale movies or like myths. And he did Greek gods recently. And so he broke down Mulan, ⁓ the live action Mulan movie and compared it to the myth instead of like to like- The animated. The animated. And I remember him saying that there's the scene where Mulan walks in and she's like talking to her parents like right before they were like, like your match almost mate. Your match has been chosen and she's quoting one of the like their original lines from like their original Mulan English, you know if it was translated because It not it was not written in English ⁓ fun fact see I think We talked lot about it last night like we weren't prepared to have it be just us today so we talked a lot about it last night after we watched the movie because We were expecting Joannelle to be here ⁓ but We thought it was boring. Okay, so have ADHD, which comes in apparent because ⁓ media can't hold my attention for long periods of time. So like when ⁓ I'm movies for this podcast or like ⁓ most generally, I'm like either crocheting or like doing something that's like mindless enough that keeps my brain focused. But like Also like enough that my brain isn't just like basically free falling without like if that makes sense. Something to keep you from glazing over. And Sean was just glazed over. I was over for so much. actually like, cause normally I like, I haven't been diagnosed with ADHD, but like I'm similar where I need something to keep me engaged and ⁓ to prevent from glazing over. speak a little louder? Like need something to also help prevent me from getting glazed over. And ⁓ remember movie was so boring that like, I actually had to ⁓ fully everything I was doing and just stare at the screen to try and like stay engaged because I was missing so much because it was just boring. I like wasn't being able to grab my attention enough. to where even a passive activity was able to withstand it. Okay, I have two thoughts about this. First, I want to make the comment that people are like, well, things don't hold your attention span enough these days. Like we have the attention span of a TikTok. Yeah, I know Janelle has said that on a few episodes. And here's the thing. I might have ADHD, but ⁓ something has my attention, something has my attention. John can attest to this. Like despite me having ADHD. She hyper fixes. hyper fixates. not going to talk about how I researched Mount Everest for the past week. Yeah, was bad. I started watching like things before bed. But yeah, I can focus on something if I want to. Well, in Disney movies typically have a good Like I have a good like a really good at keeping our attention through humor through music through something engaging and this movie just didn't cut it Yeah, okay, so I was trying to talk to Shawn during the movie to just be like, what did you think? Like Shawn, you're you're still alive, right and he was just Gone. Okay. It took everything in me to pay attention to this movie because the problem is like with this movie They tried to make it more historically accurate, which is fine. And then like culturally accurate as well. Which is fine. I have no problems with that. They did it bad. Okay, I think okay. The script, the way the act like their script was written and the fact it's Disney and they still tried to Disney-ify it made it bad. I okay. hear me out, this is going to take a moment. I didn't really understand people when they were like, the script is bad. Because not a movie reviewer. Like I became one ⁓ slowly watching this podcast, but like that wasn't at the forefront of my brain. what really this was like to the end of the movie, I could not figure out ⁓ what the actual goodness, bad guys were. I mean, like the individual people, like who was the like enemy that they were fighting because they had three different names and they were never consistent with it. Because in the animated, like we had the Huns and it was just like, had Shanyu, Big Bad, and then the Huns. we have Bori Khan, who was like the replacement for Shanyu, but there was like the Northern territories, think it was something like something Northern was like one name, another name that started with an R, different tribes, they, it wasn't consistent, but like the characters were not introduced well at all. Like I still cannot tell you, I know all the characters, most of the characters from the animated were there, but I cannot tell you. Which one is Yao? Which one is Qian Po? Which one is Ling? I can tell you which one's Cricket. Yes, Cricket was my favorite character in the entire movie, which don't get me wrong. My favorite archetype for anything and anyone is like the Golden Retriever. I don't know why. ⁓ it's because I'm the Golden Retriever. But Cricket is definitely like, hi, I'm happy to see you. I am like very kind and very sweet. And so like Yeah, he's lucky to be alive at same. So that's why I love cricket and I like I like Mulan, but we'll get we'll get into like my I don't want to my beef with Mulan, but like thoughts on Mulan later. It's hard to talk about it in an organized fashion because I feel like the movie is not organized. ⁓ movie isn't organized well, other than like the plot does hit ⁓ of the same storyline of the animated with ⁓ Obviously some deviation and like differences, but all the main plot points are there. funniest part was the matchmaker. Like I think that's the only consistent thing from the animated to the live action was the matchmaker is the funniest scene. There was the one other scene that we thought was like kind of which was the funny one? Wasn't like. It was definitely wasn't anything in the training montage. I just ⁓ the reaction to like Ignore it. So like it was a reaction to Mulan doing something. it like her like doing like the combat and everyone was like, whoa! fact that we can't remember what the other funny scene was. ⁓ shows how boring it was. The only... I think there was only a few redeeming factors of this movie. Not like they say that they redeemed the whole movie, but like stuff that was actually done well. And I would say the instrumentals... ⁓ instrumentals were very authentic. Like they might not actually be authentic, but they sounded... They were orchestrated appropriately. And they sounded like a part of the world that they created, if that makes sense. say orchestra as in like they use like the right instruments and stuff. It was arranged appropriately. And Sean knows what he's talking about because he was a music major in college. I had to make sure I stuck the right words in there because I know what you were trying to say. But like the instrumentals were done very well and I feel like they did a good job generally. like making sure that like plot wise it still followed the animated. I think outside of those points, it really started to fail because to go into Mulan, they destroyed her. Okay. break it down this way because Sean and I had a very intense conversation and I just want to, I want to reference this movie we watched yesterday night. Yep. Last night we watched it. Yes. And then we also watched In like the same time period within 24 hours, we watched Wendy Wu, Homecoming Warrior. Two nights ago, because I like that movie. And we didn't mean for it to happen like back to back. We were watching DCOMs. And like, that's just something we do as like couples do. And the whole time I was watching Mulan, was like, I would rather be watching Brenda Song. To be fair, Wendy Wu was a great movie. ⁓ like, let's So like, more important coming up but like and the animated was so great was Mulan was a regular person she was completely just like a man's man not man's like the person of the people and only reason that she was quote-unquote special was because she had Mooshu. Tell me Okay so like We don't see the perspective of any other of the gentlemen at like the camp that during the war, but she had her ancestors guardian, guardian. wasn't supposed to go, you know, know, Mooshu. He was with her supporting her being his, her confidant and like giving her like, like companionship and acceptance during a time that like she really needed it. And the like live action Mulan has this thing called Chi, which I have to stop myself from saying chai and I want to apologize to the audience. It's because my favorite tea is chai tea and like, especially when you put it in latte form, my favorite thing. So I have to completely be like, no, chai. No, it's Chi. And I have a, I know I told you this last night, but I hate, I hate that they brought in Chi into this movie because with how it's presented, it's like the force in Star Wars and they put it in this movie as an excuse to make Mulan special because I don't, I still don't get it. Like it ruined Everything Mulan in the animated was able to present because like you said she was a normal person had hard. She worked hard had a huge drive, which was very evident in the animated movie, Mulan was, did not want to be found out that she was a girl after the initial in the mountain pass. And they found out, and it was like ⁓ crap moment. Here, she made the choice. Because they added this Chi element in and they're like, your Chi will never be fully strong unless you fully accept your identity. they add the witch? They add the concept of a witch because they believe any woman that has like a super, highly, highly concentrated Chi to be a witch. Whereas a man is like a super warrior. I mean, like the actual like witch character. Yeah. There was like The bird woman. person you described as the foil of Mulan. Yes, the foil of Mulan, which again, we'll come back to. But like they created this cheese of the plot, or I don't know if it was in the original story or not. I haven't read it, unfortunately. By original story, we mean like the source material. Like the original Mulan legend. Yes, and we're not talking about the animated just just so we're all on the same page. But they brought it into this movie because they to be more feminine and ruined it. because now she was like a hero because she accepted her identity and it made it in it because of her chi she was like a super warrior versus her having the drive in just being a good warrior ⁓ wasn't a need to ⁓ necessarily accept identity That was never a plot issue for Mulan. wasn't that she had to pretend to be a guy. That was an issue. What Mulan really great as a feminist character has to come from the fact that she went against Imperial order, something that would have caused death without fail. that was even in the animated. And in this one, they didn't put that in. They did not put that consequence in. They said that she was expelled. for like lying, being dishonest. But the animated had higher stakes, which is odd for a movie that's supposed to be more historically accurate. But her denying her true self was never an issue because she was herself the entire time, even if she didn't present herself that way. even if she didn't use the correct name. Like her name could have been Jake from State Farm she would have still been her exact ⁓ Even to the very end, was creative. Like, she used the same move at the end of the movie in the animated to like get up to save the emperor that she used to get the arrow. And that was like a huge thing. a callback. You're like, ⁓ same person. you go, babe. But here it ruined her. She was only special because she had this Chi gift versus just being genuinely good and working hard to be good. And something I want to add to this conversation is the other thing that made animated Mulan so great was in the animated when we're going against the Huns and like the Emperor's life is at stake. Mulan has the idea to basically dress in drag, to dress as the opposite sex. And that's the idea that like gets to like save the Emperor of China through like the hijinks. don't get me wrong, Mulan is a great warrior. She's a really smart person, but it isn't, but like, Any of the other soldiers could have created that, like, an idea to get to the Emperor. It just happened to be Mulan. She just happened to think outside the box. it wasn't anything like super human. And I think that's why when the Emperor is like, I want you to be a part of my council, it hits a lot harder because she was just right place. right time, and that's how life happens. Right place, right time, right idea. Well, and hearing you talk about it, I kind of realized how interesting having the three guys dress up as women in the animated one was because she pretended to be a guy and got to where she was, and then she was like, now you guys get to dress like girls to see our benefit. how that was able to help them to kind of show that like dichotomy of like being a man and being a woman has advantages. they again, they took that away in the live action. I was so excited to see them dress in drag. Like they took everything that made Mulan a feminist icon and destroyed it. And I hate to say it, the other part that made Mulan as a character suck in the live action is all of her drive is gone. Because the way I explained it to you last night was basically... The live action we want is on Disney plus labeled as a drama, which makes sense. And so the best way you can kind of compare the type of movie that it's trying to be is to a another war movie. I don't have any that I can specifically reference. So I'm to use Captain America, the first Captain American movie as like a reference, because if you take the Marvel isms out. So like the super serum and stuff. He tried to explain it to me last night as like if you take the Chris Evans out of it I'm like no, no, no, no, no the Marvel isms basically like take out the super serum leave Chris Evans as who Chris Evans is supposed to be Steve Rogers and you see a character who has such dedication to his country and it's presented well like You see that like there's the fake grenade or whatever that goes off and he's fully convinced it's gonna go off and he dives head first to save like the group of people that was around him. Yeah, during his training, which would have been like basically a suicide mission. Literally, he was like, I will sacrifice myself to protect people. And you see that drive in everything you do, even without the super serum. Captain America is still the same person without the super serum. And with Mulan, because Mushu was not in there as a confidant, no one knows or what she is and she has no one to share that to, which ⁓ get makes sense on a cultural standpoint. She had no one she could tell because the culture and stuff, but she even to explicitly ⁓ state what her was. Like Mulan in the animated ⁓ voiced her opinion. like to her family, she was always upset about it the beginning about father having to go to war, seeing him try to use his sword and everything, watching him struggle ⁓ and hurt his leg and stuff while trying to use his sword again. And it and like the character development of like reflection and the really intense scene that I acknowledged last week about like when she goes to steal the sword and how the instrumental takes over. of that drive and passion that you see in that is gone in this movie. She does not say a word about it. She remains closed and flat. And I'm sorry, that does not make a very interesting character. You don't get a sense of purpose out of her. Yeah. I know there is a way to do a serious flat character, but there has to be something to draw out that character. And there just wasn't anything. No, it's like if you were to watch a move, you were to watch Tangled, but then take out every, take out every ⁓ Rapunzel mentions the floating lights. And the character you're left with. You're like, what the hell is this? The whole is she wants to see the floating lights. That's her big thing. ⁓ Here, if wants to protect her father, that is the of who she is. And she does not talk about it once, not even like to herself. she could have totally self-monologued in this when she was like doing Nightgarden, just being like, I miss my dad. I hope he's okay. fine. Or like even a little bit more like flashbacks, like there's a, ⁓ that one flashback, hear me out. You that scene where Cause this movie has like that weird narration of like her father narrating her story. It's really weird. It was an ancestor narrating it to someone. No, cause they said it was Zhao. That's her father's name. Okay, sure. It was her father. I was actually like telling the story. was weird. Um, but you know that scene where like he's narrating his life. Hua Jun died, but Hua Mulan. lived on like is still alive or whatever or was like born again and they had like the Phoenix or whatever. think it would have been much more powerful if you want you remove the voiceover because those voiceover bits were dumb. But like if you were to have a flashbacks to her dad and have that be a symbol of strength for her to get up and continue fighting. That being said, well, The whole Phoenix thing, because it not seem like she saw the Phoenix or whatever. The whole Phoenix thing is dumb in this movie. don't understand why it couldn't still have been a dragon. ⁓ can tell you why, because I had to do research on it, but we were watching it. ⁓ is? They changed it to the Phoenix for ⁓ main reasons. OK. One, the sarcastic, comedic dragon did not make sense for this movie, which is why Mushu isn't there to begin with. OK. And they changed it from a dragon ⁓ to phoenix. ⁓ because a dragon, one is more masculine and is generally a symbol associated with the emperor. okay. I guess that makes sense. The phoenix is considered more feminine. But again, you can take the Phoenix out in the movie largely remained the same because Mushu had a place in the movie. You understood that there was a prayer to the ancestors from the grandma. The ancestors came and were like, we need to send someone to protect Mulan, send Mushu to protect her. miss the grandma. The grandma they so miss so much. but like with this movie, there like this one simple, ⁓ like didn't set up the Phoenix very well. And then it was just kind of there. It doesn't interact with Mulan at all. It's just pretty looking. Fox, the Phoenix, I told Megan, Fox, the Phoenix and Harry Potter did more in all eight movies than the Phoenix did in this one movie. like Harry interacted with Fox. He thought he killed him at one point. Yeah, that's only in the second movie. Yeah. I also wanted to add right now real quick that I thought that, Originally the first thing we see the Phoenix was a kite or something. It looks a lot like a kite. So I was like, are they flying a kite? At camp, what is happening? I how they ruined her character so And again, I like the idea of having a realistic story. ⁓ If wanted a movie like this to really work, they needed to take out the Disney-isms and have it be a direct retelling of the story. Maybe some expansion on world because we know some stories don't give the best detail, especially legends. Okay. like, me out. If they really wanted to do this movie, ⁓ they would to start with a quote from like the actual like reference material. They're actual reference material. And then they lead into the movie that way. So that way, the Disney audience comes in and they're like, oh, this isn't the same Moonlight. That like has Mushu and has everything. I find it funny that you say that when that's kind of how they opened up the light of actually Little Mermaid. Right. That's what I was expecting. It's different. Was because I was like, oh, there's a Hans Christian Anderson quote. Okay, this is gonna be different. But it wasn't. think it's a frame. It's like, there's this term called lampshading where it's like you bring something up before the audience can. Right? So if I say, ⁓ by the way, I'm wearing Wicked merch and I know that this is a Disney podcast channel, but I, need to wash all my laundry. So that's why I'm Wicked merch. No one will bring it up again. But you lampshade it, like this is going to be a different movie, then we all are prepared for a different movie. And that's easiest way to do it. ⁓ I forgot the other part I loved about this movie and it wasn't even the movie itself. The opening scene with the castle. ⁓ yes. Yeah, they did like this cast because like every Disney movie has a castle opening and for this movie they did the Shanghai Disney Castle, the Disney Castle that's in Shanghai, China, which I think is so nice because it was a completely different castle than like the traditional Cinderella castle. So. For those of you who don't know, Sean and I are huge Parks fans. We're huge Disney fans, but we know a ton about the Parks. It's a hyper focus of ours. Mostly my hyper focus, because once my brain goes into it, but it's one of Sean's big interests, because there's a difference between neurotypical and then neurodivergent brains. They're equal, but it's just a difference. Because when I go into it, I'm there for weeks. ⁓ That's she knows so much about the Haunted Mansion. But no. The castles are all different because in different parts of the world, it just makes the most sense. no, that was really cool. I to give flowers to the cast. Like we said, the writing was atrocious because you couldn't understand what was going on 90 % of the time. And like I was pretty focused on the movie for the most part, and ⁓ I lost of what was happening. I couldn't tell you the main names of the main characters. No, we couldn't keep track of the main characters other than Mulan. And I don't, I don't even remember the last name she had in this movie. Hua. Hua. Which like we found out is like the actual like last name family name that Mulan had in the legend and they changed it for the animated to make make more sense for Western audiences to Fa. the important thing. sorry. I want to give flowers, especially to the actress of Mulan and the witch and cricket because cricket was lovable with a little. That was the funniest character change out of the entire movie. like character was so lovable He so little to work with, but he was so lovable. The love interests, I think, was ⁓ decently written. for this movie. But. I found him charming, which goes to the actor. I think that Mulan's actress did a decent, like good with what she had because the difference between her and Rachel Zegler, who was just bad, Rachel Zegler's facial emotions didn't match what was happening on screen. Why? I hate that scene so much. For the actress who plays Mulan, she was like... She went hard. Like she was able to present very poised and very like controlled, which is important for the cultural context. Yes. But she was also like. was also a huge difference between when she was... was the ping name in the live action? Because it wasn't ping. ⁓ was... Hwajoon. Which is like a very generic name, by the way. Hwajoon. There was a difference between Hua Jun and Mulan. Like when she acted both of those roles, Hua Jun was more masculine, was more reserved, was more just, I don't know. But when she was Mulan, she was more expressive. She was more... Which is the complete opposite of what she technically should have been in that like because men have the ability to say whatever they want and speak their mind, women can't. And I find it funny that as a man she couldn't, but as a woman she could. I that was supposed to be like towards the movie of like, your true self. But like, just want to give her flowers because like she worked with an awful script and like Mulan was a really likable character. Like despite the flaws that Sean and I have talked about, Mulan... the actress of Mulan a decent job with what she had. She did a good job with what she had. I want to take a moment to like go around a conversation that I have a lot, like I get into some arguments with online about. Sean likes to get into a lot of Facebook arguments. This one is around the live action talk. Okay. Live actions are heavy topic. Yeah. Cause to you makes a live action good. Cause me out. The same stuff gets said about every live action. First, there's the. They'll say, it's not the original though. Like it's too different from the original. We want the original, which is great for Cinderella. Cinderella did do that, they don't like it when it's Lion King. But then they'll say, would you recop with Lion King? said, why would you just do a copy of the original? You didn't need to add some stuff that's different and stuff like Beauty and the Beast, which was great. They added stuff different and But then you have, but then you have this movie, which does every like hit, hits all the major plot points and does some stuff differently, but people hated it. Okay, let me give like you see what like it's never ending circle of like You there's no way of pleasing almost okay Let let me let me ⁓ on what you're saying first of all, I'm gonna say this now I do not like the like like the live-action Lion King. I do not like Mufasa And I wanted to say that one of my biggest pet peeves is just animals talking in movies that are supposed to be like live-action so like I grew up watching a lot of the Airbodies movies and like the mouth sinking on those dogs is atrocious. Just saying. So like I have a really big problem with it. look, the Lion King animation of those, like, because the lions aren't real, those are all CG. my gosh. just, it doesn't compute. It does not. Mm-hmm. It does not look good. Yeah, that movie looks bland I've just feel like the reason I don't like the Lion King is because if It doesn't look good. Like, I know that, like, they got a lot of big people to be singing in it, but it felt like a slog. The other animated ones that you were talking about. We all talked about how Cinderella was great. all talked about how Beauty the Beast was great. I think, hear me out. Hear me out on this one. Beauty and the Beast and Cinderella were able to be made because the story that they're trying to tell simple that you don't need a lot of bells and whistles to do it. Because in you can draw anything. You can make lions have facial expressions that don't really exist. And it will look natural. Why? Because it's animated. is a story about people. And what happens during CGI? I don't know. Those are because it's a story about people and the relationships between them. Snow White could been good because it's story about Snow White learning to come into and her power. by befriending these seven men. Six men? Seven? Seven. Seven dwarves. they basically are like, they lift her up when she was told she was worth nothing so she can face life. It go well because Disney ruined it. Along with the actors, we're gonna like, yeah. I think the important thing to me about live actions is They still have the heart of the movie. Beauty and the Beast still have the heart of Beauty and the Beast. It was updated a little bit, given a few extra like flair, but like for the most part, that was still the same at heart. Beast was better, I'm gonna say. It was great. reason. And it's kind of like what I was saying earlier, Mulan, they took everything away from her that made her great. Yeah, the problem with Mulan making it live action is because like you said Mulan is about war. The Animated tries to make you forget it's about war. the Animated did well, and we didn't bring this up on last week's episode, but the ⁓ ⁓ in the process of making the movie, could not agree on the movie should be a musical or not. Mm-hmm. And so they actually put that into the movie, which is really funny if you look at how often animators disagreements make their way into the movie, because the make it blue, make it pink argument in Sleeping Beauty was the exact same way they couldn't agree on the dress color. with Mulan, the animated Mulan, there is no musical after A Worth Fighting for, because it goes, a girl worth fighting. And that is it. There is no more music after that. They put the music in the beginning, had it be fun, it drives the plight along, develops the characters, especially the training montage. We all know we love that training montage. But then it enters the seriousness of war. It's kind of like the Haunted Mansion except reverse. Yes. Good metaphor or simile. Thank you. I do love the Haunted Mansion. And this movie, they tried to lean in heavily on the war, but they left out certain aspects that don't. I kind of added to the plot in ways we never really expected how much they hit because the doll scene in the animated movie. It's done so well. It's like the smallest detail, but it tells a thousand words and it's not more because all you see is Sean you finding a doll saying, ⁓ a little girl left her doll. Let's go return it. And like, as an adult, you're like, crap. a kid, you're either going to ⁓ ⁓ he's returning her doll or ⁓ something bad's going to happen. Cause that's the bad guy. And then you see Mulan find it. the kid is gonna ⁓ fully understand what happened, but understand, no. ⁓ That's doll we saw earlier. And the adults are crying. then the adults obviously understand what happened and it just adds that layer of depth of that this the live action took out because the live action when they got to that, what would have been that same scene, it was soldiers only. But in the animated, it added the context that it wasn't just the soldiers. Yeah, there was like civilians. Exactly. And I think that's the weird part. I don't understand. is how the animated was darker like ⁓ more, ⁓ a lot more depth and consequences than the live action. Because not only like there was that part of it, but then like I said, the animated ⁓ heavily on the fact of she be killed. Mulan will be killed if she's found out. I mean, say it in like the live action. They don't. Because... no, no, they do. Because when he finds the flower thing, beret thing, not beret, beret, that's in her hair, the mom wants to go out and he goes, if... She's like, the mom says she will die from the other side, from the huns. And then he goes, the dad goes, if I tell them, then... or people will kill her. yeah, and they say that in the animated too. But even in the animated, when she is found out, ⁓ immediately death. is treason, ⁓ not OK. they actually you think he is about to execute her. Yes, Shang. We're talking about Shang. In the live action, get noted of like a few punishments. Like if you bring a girl into camp, or have relations with a girl, like that is not okay at all. If you're dishonest, you're expelled. And And so Mulan didn't receive that first punishment of like being a girl in camp because she technically did not break that rule. No one brought her into camp. ⁓ She into camp and they were just like, you were dishonest, you're expelled. And they would, and they gave the threat, like, if you come back, then I'll kill you. But it wasn't, stakes weren't as high. And even if they wanted it to be, I, cause in the animated, they were, ⁓ way it went was Shang like was about to do it. And he like puts his sword into the snow and says, you saved my life. I will spare yours. ⁓ is that. ⁓ are lucky this time. And they leave her there. On the mountain, by the way, which is extremely dangerous. Not really wearing her, not her wearing her armor or nothing. She's in a blanket wrapped in bandages. Yeah, extremely dangerous. But in this movie, what would have made it 10 times better, at least in this moment, would have been if he was going to execute her and the replacement for Shang, who is a love interest. I don't know if he's Ling or not, would have stepped in and said, no, she saved my life. Spare hers life for a life. That would have been way better. Okay, I'm hearing you. I swear, but ⁓ had like ⁓ a light bulb moment. Another epiphany? Okay, you remember ⁓ in the day ⁓ Disney had a whole separate company that would release movies, like the one and only Nightmare Christmas. Touchmark. That was, yeah. or Touchstone, something like that. Touchstone Pictures, was like Disney being like, I don't know if this will sell well, but like these are our experimental films. The reason live action Mulan does not work is because it's trying to be serious. And Disney don't do serious. Disney can do serious, but not war movie serious. Does that make sense? if not in the way that they tried to ⁓ ⁓ can do serious. They have done serious. they to make a serious movie while still ⁓ being normal iconic self. So I what should have happened is if they ⁓ wanted to a live action Mulan, make it clear this is an experimental movie. We're going to put it under a different like company. different shell company and we are going to build it from the ground up because the part that really took me out of this movie is the same scene we were talking about with the doll and we see all this live action we see all the soldiers laying on the ground dead and I was like I do not want to see dead bodies in a Disney movie and I'm like wait a second I have seen dead bodies in a Disney movie we've seen Clayton hanging we saw Scar he gets mauled we've seen like the Like dead Mufasa dead Mufasa and I'm like, okay, why is this different? And I'm like, don't get me wrong. Those were like tragic. Those were animated. Those were animated. But it was one death. And two, those weren't live action people laying on the ground. Like, like it was ⁓ was it was a little gory. It was ⁓ little gory and I was like. I have watched my dad's favorite show was Band of Brothers, which is a war series. And I think about it and I'm like, okay, what's the difference between this? And obviously it's like the instruments use because they have like their chi and they have like their spears. There's no guns involved. Are they like bows and arrows? Yes. And then they have like the like cannon. Trebuchet. Trebuchet. There we go. I was going to say cannonball, like troubleshoot. Trebuchet. Trebuchet. There we go. And I was like, They really needed to either make it more humorous or go all in because this weird gray area that exists work. And kept toeing the line and that's why it came out so... Awkward. Awkward. It's like that awkward middle school teenage phase where you're ⁓ not a teen yet, but you're not quite a child so you're just awkwardly in the middle and no one likes that stage. The thing though, so you talked about how you had stuff that kept on taking you out of the movie. We to give credit to the two things that to got me into the movie. I mentioned earlier, the instrumentals in movie were done super well. And the reason I say that is because, as Disney has learned, can't do a live action Disney without ⁓ some of homage or connection to the animated. Excuse me, Thank you. In this, homages to the animated movie were done in a very beautiful way to me. Cause the matchmaker scene, you do hear an instrumental ⁓ bring honor to us all. and during the scenes, will hear a instrumental of reflection. Granted, not nearly as powerful. or as character and it doesn't really develop her character at all. It's just kind of just subtle undertones. And Megan can tell you I'm a sucker when there when this type of thing happens. Like whenever I this is why I have a hard time watching Mary Poppins Returns, which is such a good movie. And we will do a we'll do an episode on it someday. But like those types of homages where especially those two songs were done in. in what sounded to be like in a much more vulnerable way. Because it wasn't like, cause even though was during the training scene, reflection was not done in like a very like auspicious way. Like, um, I'll make a man out of you. word choice by the way. Thank you. It was much more raw showing that like, showing like more of like her becoming her person and accepting her chi, which you've heard her. stuff on that or like the girl worth fighting for where it like shows how heavy this is weighing on them given like it's an aging culture honor is a huge thing and in this particular instance her dad was part of it like he was there and publicly and like it was very public that like Mulan has brought dishonor to the Hua family Now you can go. Okay. I completely disagree. Listen, the instrument, like the musicians on this movie did a fantastic job. But when I heard those, I'm like, it's like Disney smacking me upside the face being like, you could have been watching the animated movie and you decided to watch this? a loser. That's what I felt like every time. And I was like, ⁓ trying. Look, I'm like, Some people. I'm not gonna name names. ⁓ and I really, really try when we are watching movies that we particularly don't know, or these live actions. We really try to give them benefit of the doubt. We like, aside own biases and we really try to be like... Which is why we've actually said some real, actual redeeming factors of the movie that are good. Because we... Like we also understand, like, for example, like, gave praises to the ⁓ who designed Snow White's clothes in like ⁓ live action Snow White, because I was like, that was really brilliant storytelling. like, just an actor or an actress or the writers didn't do a good job doesn't mean like the musicians didn't do a great job or like the artists or whatever. So we want to give flowers to people who deserve their flowers. There's a lot of people that go into making movies that are just at like the whim of those in charge pretty much and they're just doing their jobs. Like the actors don't make the script. They're working with what they got. Granted there are. That doesn't mean they're not subject to their own acting choices. Like we said, Rachel Ziegler versus this Milan who really tried. You can tell she was really trying to give it her all as Mulan. Yeah, but the other thing that ⁓ when I pointed this out to Megan like she lost her mind at the end towards the end of the movie when Mulan after she saves the emperor and like goes and is like presented to the emperor formally I pointed out to Megan that like The person who had done that was the original, like the person who said, your highness, like this is Mulan or whatever. That was the original Mulan from the animated. Megan lost her mind when I told her she's the official Disney triple threat. A quadruple threat? Now quadruple threat, because she was announced to be Hera in the Percy Jackson series. let's define what Disney's quadruple threat is. For those who do not know, she is in Marvel. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is ⁓ Star Wars. Yep. many parts of it. Yeah, so it's not just a one-off character. She's been in multiple series. Then she was obviously Fa Mulan. And now a goddess. And so literally, she's amazing. I like how Disney The more original actors. like... I also, hear me out for a moment. feel like now that's like a thing that you kind of have to do otherwise people are going to get mad. And hear me out. Like FourWicked, Dina Manziel, and Kristin Chenoweth were brought in for like a little bit of a song. in one short day of the Emerald City. And don't get me wrong, I was nearly screaming in the movie theater with excitement. She was smacking the hell out of So when I get really, really excited about something, I tend to just smack the person next to me. And it's not like I'm going to beat you up. She can't contain her excitement. literally can't. And so that's how I learned to do it. And it just happened to be Sean who got that treatment. Always. Sean. But like, people. Especially like because this is like a tradition that they've kept up like they did the original aerial I like because I want to say this like a really quick like it's really interesting because between this and the Little Mermaid I liked how it was a passing of the torch because like air Jodie Benson in the live action really likes like gave her a dinglehopper And stuff which was like a way of like passing the torch Or in this case, passing the fork. in this one, like you had the original Mulan presenting someone else as Mulan, which I just think is brilliant in like a more like culture sense, like modern culture type thing of like, I'm passing the torch. This is ⁓ now. ⁓ I think, I think it's a really nice gesture, but I think, I don't know how much of it is genuine and how much is performative at this point. Does that make sense? I, yeah. It's like, okay, it's like those like people who do charity, but like are celebrities. They're like, ⁓ I'm going to St. Jude's to like, St. Jude's versus them like going to St. Jude's on like the download. ⁓ it's still important. I it has to do with like what role they're playing because a lot of people with the tango, the live action tangled being made. I'm so excited. One of my favorite actors is playing Flynn Rider and I'm so stoked. His name is Milo and I love him. A lot of people have actually come out and said they really want the original Flynn and Rapunzel to play her parents. mean, I understand. And I think like that creative liberty of like acknowledging of them being old because like even in Wicked, the people that Adina and Kristen played were the old wise ones. Yeah. And Adina did say like once upon a time that she would want to play Elphaba, but she's older now. She can't because they're in college. so like, think having that reverence of like acknowledging them as like the superior or like being someone who's like older adds just the right touch. Like in instance, she wouldn't have known that it was the OG Mulan. Especially because the makeup that she was wearing. But like, It was just this moment, like, if you weren't paying attention, you wouldn't have guessed it her, but like, she presented her. And then like, have like the live, the old Flynn and Rapunzel being the parents of the new Rapunzel Jodie passing on the fork during a scene that's like very reminiscent to Ariel. Like, I, these ⁓ are like, seem very intentional. look, it. I get it. It's just, it's just one those things I'm thinking about right now ⁓ in culture. I just. The inclusion of the characters, whether it's performative or not, but like I feel like whether they're there or not is potentially performative, but the roles they pick are intentional. that makes more sense. There's something we need to talk about. What's the aesthetics of this movie? Hear me out. So the ⁓ animated is bright colorful. Generally. Yeah. Generally. Yeah. I just want to say that every time we come across the Huns, the bad guys, it's all like dark. Like we're filming inside of a cave. They're all wearing black, which is fine, but when all the bad guys are wearing black... In a dark scene, just makes it hard to see them. It makes it hard to see them. It also makes it hard to like... Remember? I know that like the big bad guy had like this scar across his face and I was like, that's the guy who like I'm supposed to be remembering. But every time he came on screen, I was like, who's that guy again? Oh, it's a big scar face. And I feel so bad for calling him that. I'm like, I'm sorry. Well, I think. And the other witch woman, bird lady, if you will, wouldn't have been any better. But she had like the white like. I thought it was black. the white band across her face. And I'm like, ⁓ it's Bread Lady. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to know who she was. And then our heroes were wearing red. Kind of. was red and metal-y armor. Yeah. And I was like, that's cool. But like... I think the big thing with this movie, again, I think we understand the time period it's trying to depict. I feel like I don't know if this is my own ignorance from not really being much in around like ancient China or anything like that. expect a little more vibrancy life, not so much dull wood. Okay. So this is also the problem I have with, the Lion King. Look, Savannah in Africa can be pretty We've seen that, but it can also be ⁓ super colorful. I was going to say, think of lot of foliage around Asian countries. Like if I were ⁓ easiest one to think of is like cherry blossoms. Japan. Like there opportunities to have foliage ⁓ and There's ⁓ yeah, I don't know. don't know. I don't. OK, listen, I don't know much about China. I am so sorry. Like, well, like we're making that clear. Like ⁓ there's a of stuff we just don't know. And I also want to admit that my school system dropped the ball. I remember one thing about China from my world history class. One thing. And that was that one guy got castrated. I'm not joking you. That's all I remember. This one guy did something that wasn't that bad and got castrated and that was it. My world history teacher was notoriously bad for just giving us homework and not doing anything. think the only time I learned about ancient China was in sixth grade. Yeah, so like we're just gonna put it out there. We're also not Asian. We are two white Americans. Yeah, so so like So maybe we're wrong about China and if you're from China or you know about more about China than we do leave it in the comments like specifically ancient China like what What's the landscape like what are the plants like what are the biomes? Tell me all about it, please. was the other thing that was just really weird, like during what would have been like the mountain pass battle from like the animated. The snow, like it was green and then there was just a random thing is snow. Which like, listen, we live near mountains-ish and so it's not uncommon to like have like greenery and snow. But here's the thing, this is a movie where like if you want snow, you amplify the snow. Like, it's not like two like indie people like no budget filming in the mountains because that's they have. This is Disney. They could ⁓ afford little bit more snow. The way that that scene felt in regards to the snow, because the snow is honestly a really big plot point in the animated because that's they like take out the Huns. In this movie, it was like they had this big scene in this like big battlefield full of green. ⁓ greener and then they're like, ⁓ wait, how was Mulan supposed to do this? Let's throw the snow in the back. it's like they almost forgot about it ⁓ how it felt like. ⁓ Let's talk about the fighting. Fighting was lackluster. Okay. Like, like we said, like I said, we came back to Windy Woo. I like ⁓ struggling ⁓ here's thing. I'm not a huge fighting movie person. Sean can tell you. She's not. ⁓ I'm of a musical gal. ⁓ But I was thinking like I would rather be watching Wendy Wu. And I was like, OK, well, there's got to be some some movie that I really love that has fighting in it. And K-pop Demon Hunters is in my top three movies. OK, it might be super popular right now, but it's fantastic for a reason. And all that is because it's a musical with fighting. So it's all rhythmically on beat. So it's like, OK, that doesn't count. And then I was like, OK, but there must be another movie that has has some fighting that I enjoy coming from Panda. OK, that's animated with animals. OK, try again. And I was like, Wendy Wu was not a musical, was not animated and had really fun fight scenes. The thing about it had a tiny budget compared to this. The thing is that like ruin the fight scenes is a little like what we were saying. The Chi aspect made it weird. Like the fact that. They do this weird stuff with like super fast swords and like kicking swords. And again, it's just not real fighting. They put the force in ancient China. There's a book series I've been reading recently. listening to, because audiobooks. ⁓ they described this battle scene as a dance, right? And I was about this. Realistically, you prepare for a fight scene, the actors do, like you would prepare for a, I don't want to say dance battle, but like a dancer title. ⁓ No, it a dance. ⁓ And they have left. And I'm saying this across the board either like, like, I felt like watching these guys fight, I'm like, I could throw a better punch and I don't fight. The most I do is fight a like a diaper onto a toddler. like, this is a, this should be the most exciting part to watch. in a movie about a war. ⁓ Yeah. This is like, this is the point. Well, and that's the thing. if you like watching star wars, and like the lightsabers are the boringest thing about the movie. That's just sad. And I was like, wait a second, this is not how it's supposed to But the thing is, the problem, the thing is that sucks is like Star Wars, which has the force legitimately, one unknown thing throughout the universe and it's incorporated. ⁓ and it's explained. And it's explained way better. The was like, ⁓ explained and listen we know that the I know that the Chi comes before Mulan like we know it's like it's an actual thing that exists in outside of this movie like Chinese culture and everything yeah I mean it's in D &D y'all mm-hmm so like we it exists and there's lore behind it and so we can like but they threw it in a movie that didn't need it if they were going to make something from Mulan I feel like I understand why they chose something that was already Culturally there, but I feel like they could have just done something different Mm-hmm Yeah, and I feel like again like there was weird stuff with like the family sword being Destroyed when there didn't when the sword itself didn't feel that important Maybe like they tried to force importance. Yeah, versus like a natural importance me. I have the burps cuz ⁓ The is they had this whole plot point where the mantra for the army was being loyal, being brave, and being true. was struggling because she's not being true ⁓ that's bad. Seeing that marking on the sword ⁓ almost like... almost like guilt, trying to put guilt on her, but again, it wasn't done well because that wasn't the aspect of Mulan's character originally. Okay. I'm struggling with this because I was put in a situation where I'm not going to into detail at all about where I couldn't be true to myself. it was like something that like Mulan did, had to face every moment because Mulan had to be her alter ego, if you will, for like every moment of every day when she was in that camp. Mm-hmm. And I had to do that for like half a year. Mm-hmm. Right? Yep. ⁓ the thing. When I was in that situation, did it suck? Yes. But did I feel guilty about not being able to be myself? No, because like Mulan, it could have been a really bad situation if I wasn't. And feel like ⁓ in sense of Mulan, she wouldn't have felt guilt because she knew it was protecting her father. Yeah. Like, cause that's Mulan's drive was to protect her father. a little bit. Just to see what. We're, we're going hard. I to bring up one last thing. Okay. Because we didn't talk about the other witch, the foil to Mulan and ⁓ I, need your honest opinions before we hang up this episode. What are thoughts on the witch? Confusing as heck. Cause again, She was supposed be superhuman, enhanced human abilities, enhanced speed, coordination, that type of stuff, and all of a sudden she's turning into birds. Yeah, okay. Which is why she's the nickname the Bird Lady. don't get it. Her character does not make sense. We that she's trying to be a foil to Mulan, ⁓ someone is like, I'm a woman ⁓ who they a witch, and they're using ⁓ and stuff against the army and basically called her a slave and all this and that because no one can accept a woman and then you have luan which eventually gets accepted as a woman and stuff which is what makes her change heart and whatnot but again i'm like Again, they leaned too hard on Mulan needing to accept her identity. where they again, they had to create a whole nother character versus the ⁓ Mulan which succeeded in what she was trying to do for as a feminist icon. I feel like, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I'm reading wrong into this. ⁓ the animated Mulan, I feel like she was Mulan the entire time. Sure she went by Ping, but. Mulan was the same throughout the movie with character growth. that's what we were saying. Like she didn't, it didn't matter what name she used. It was Mulan. And so, yeah, I, here's the thing. Foils usually are like my favorite characters. And for those who don't know what foil is, it's a literary term it's basically there's two characters and they're basically like they're similar, but there's one trait that makes them completely different. So ⁓ this bird lady's case, she's on the opposite side of the war. Yes, and is deemed like a witch, bad, that in people aren't accepting her. Whereas Mulan, same like level of chi and things, and is a woman, but is on a side that does end up accepting who she is as a woman. I want to like her. I want to like the bird lady. But the problem I have with the bird lady is, one, she's like in the story, she's not necessary. They made up a character. But like the actress was so good. actress was good. And the costume, like the metal wings at the end was so cool. And they didn't give her the right development. They did not. Like we don't know how she knew that Mulan was Mulan. We don't. Like she alludes to the fact that she knows that Mulan is lying. We don't know exactly how she knows. There is no explanation. I got it. I got it. This bird lady feels like she was plucked from a completely different story. Yeah. And plopped into this one. It's kind of like a fan fiction where like all of a sudden, ⁓ main character like is a normal person gets thrown into a world with full of medieval people and princesses and they're like, I have no idea what's going on. And that's kind of how it felt. Whereas this other character that Disney had rejected for some reason got thrown into this movie instead. And they were like, okay, that's cool. ⁓ don't know, I just, I wanted to the live action move on. I think when it comes to the live actions, I think that's the best way to describe it is we want to like them. But there's certain aspects about them that are just not done right that lose it. And it's always the worst things that they could lose. Right? Because they completely botched Mulan's character from what it was always known to be. I think that the problem that I've had with the most recent Disney movies that like we've watched at least. like with this one and the, I guess Little Mermaid but to a lesser extent and this one is they're trying to force immoral. And I can't remember one of my favorite like I think it's like when we talked about with Raya about the trust thing like they forced it down your throat Disney wants to make movies that have a message that speaks to people and tries to make the world a better place which I Understand and Disney has always done. Yes, but like There's something that I heard. I can't remember where where you have to trust your audience to get it. We're not making a Sesame Street episode where this is the letter A and it has to be really spelt out because we're talking to literal toddlers. Disney is for everyone. If you can't trust your audience to be like, Mulan is about finding your true self and being your true self, then you need to trust your audience more. Yeah. And that's what I feel like. You know, a story is good when you don't have to do all the work. It's like literally show, tell. Yeah. Like we'll hear from cinema therapy all the time about this idea of like, you shouldn't have to tell us everything. If it's a good story, the message will come across. you have to go as far as to make it that thick, it's not a good story. Right. But to, we to wrap up. Yeah, that was gonna be my last comment. was like, so Disney wants to make better live actions They have to trust our audience and then go to the heart of the story and trust themselves and trust themselves to tell a good story Cuz guess what? They've been doing this for a hundred years I feel like they don't trust themselves in this current climate pick a story Go to the heart of it and tell it So you just need some positive affirmations Do some positive affirmation write them in the mirror Disney the meter I can do this in true live-action versus animation fashion We like go through each of the categories even though I think we've made it pretty clear pace slash plot of the movie goes to animated Milan because we can actually tell what's happening in the plot wasn't bad of the movie but the problem is this movie was so Slow and boring. It was so slow and we couldn't tell what the characters motivations were. But plot wise it was fine, but yes, it's the pace failed. Yeah Characters Would still say give it to the animated given fact. We barely knew who the characters were. Yes, although cricket is better in this movie Yeah, like there were good one good characters ⁓ this movie. Don't get us wrong. Yes But didn't do the characters well concern. We couldn't tell who they were most of the time except for cricket and Mulan other funny part was the matchmaker at the end. Obviously going to the animated one, that was the musical. But like we said with the Beauty and the Beast, the music here wasn't bad. It just wasn't as good as the animated. I want to say that like, I was per like a musical score. So not like a musical as in like, I'm going to sing to you, but like music. We mean like all encompassing both like actual songs. It feels like a musical, but also the orchestral score that accompanies in the background. I think the orchestral score for the live action was very beautiful. It just wasn't the animated, which like gets stuck in your head. Well, again, like after that certain part in the movie, it still has orchestral parts in the background. It's just not a fun musical anymore. which I think also lends to the storytelling and ultimately puts the animated way better. Not saying that the orchestral in the live action was bad by any means, but way they told it in the animated enhanced the storytelling. And then last category is overall aesthetic, which like we said, it has to go to the animated image, again, could be to our own ignorance. just seemed like overall they felt Like they left the, left it very open and spacious without much stuff. It empty. felt like it was like in the middle of a desert is what it felt like the entire time. the entire time, except that one time they were in like the mountain, which was like a hill with some snow, which again feels like an afterthought. Like I want to comment on costumes because I'm kind of, I'm not a fashionista, but like I appreciate clothing and I feel like beginning. was fine. I'll give the costumes, again, I think they did pretty well in terms of like, the accuracy of ancient China in a village, then like, doing of the makeup and everything for the matchmaker, and then like, the more- From what our understanding is, again, we're not Asian. And then like, the grandness of being around the emperor, and even like, the armor, I thought was really good as well. I think it was interesting. I don't know how I feel about the red cloth. I get it. It's to get them to stand out, but like it's the enemy I'm having a hard time with. wish I know that would have been historically inaccurate to make them like purple or something, like, my gosh. The and the people that were basically the Huns in the live action needed to be have a little bit more to them than just dark, which I feel like is a weird trope for villains, but I get it. ⁓ also there needs to be a little. a little something to make them like not blend into the background literally in this one. So overall I would say obviously like it goes to the animated but not with that but this movie does have a fair amount of merits. would say if you want to watch an Asian fighting movie watch Wendy Wu Homecoming Warrior you will have a better time. Yeah but again like this movie has merits. Your castral suit was great and a handful of the characters did very well. actors were pretty good. All things considered. It do its job ⁓ in of being a bit more historically accurate compared to the Disney one. Like the animated one, mean. Yes. anyways, we'll see you guys next week. ⁓ Bye friends. fans.