speaker-0: Why do some rock bands become successful when other very talented bands never make much of their careers? Is there some sort of luck or magic involved for most of these artists? Or are there much more practical steps to getting your band noticed, selling albums, and doing what you love for a career? I would love to write off every success as just being in the right place at the right time, but that luck factor that most people assume it takes to become successful is just not quite right. Maybe the idea that you can make your own luck really is true. I'm gonna be talking to an independent pop punk band named Crimson Ride today about the answer to some of these questions. And we're also gonna talk about their new album, Third Time's a Charm, that is a perfect punch of punk, politics, and harmony-laced melodies. Welcome to the Powered By Rock podcast where real rock fans come to discuss and hear stories straight from the artists who actually make the music. All right, welcome to the show. Roxy, Chris, Ryan, Jay from the band Crimson Riot. Thank you so much for being here. I've been a big fan of you guys as I think I even put you on a show of mine once a while back. I always appreciate when you guys jump on even the last minute or play shows live and you guys aren't just Crimson Riot, but also the Roxy Gunn project. You guys play a lot. So you guys are very seasoned professionals in the Las Vegas industry. And before we dig into kind of the topic that I want to talk about today. I definitely want to talk to you guys about the new music you have, but some of the things that kind of got you to this point as well. You guys are what I would consider a successful band and it's not just based on you guys releasing music and sticking around for a long time. I know you guys won, you know, the the Topgolf competition as well. That one was pretty awesome. We'll talk about that in a minute. But I think you guys just as people. have set yourself up for being a successful band. know, obviously Roxy and Chris, you guys are married. Ryan, are, it's Roxy's dad, if I'm not mistaken, right? So you guys are a family band, which I can only imagine. I can only get along with my family for so long before I get, you know, annoyed, frustrated and all that stuff. And I'm sure you guys have all the same issues that anybody's family has. And I love my family. Like we get along as long as we're not trying to, you know, be together for too long, right? Like speaker-1: Yep. speaker-0: great in short doses. So I know that there's a lot of that stuff and it takes a lot of work to kind of be a family band with all the notoriety you guys have is Las Vegas locals and the kind of extra pressure of being a rock band. Where do you guys see like as a band as people? Do you see like anything special about how you guys interact versus maybe other bands that you kind of see and how does that kind of dynamic help you guys, you know stay as a lasting band versus you know, and any any other band that could just drop a member and it'd be okay. speaker-2: think the biggest thing, mean, being a family is one thing. it's like you see a lot of bands with family members that like, kind of don't work out. Like, you you have the entire Credence Clearwater revival situation where, you know, the Fogarty brothers didn't speak to each other until one of them died and then they never spoke. It was just, it was so bad, it was over entirely. ⁓ You know, the Gallagher brothers from Oasis finally... No buried the hatchet and went on tour again and so it's not so much about being a family it's just about being. On the same page all the time you know it's like everything we do you know we do we discuss the group you know unless it's like I mean we've been playing together for so long that we all kind of know like okay this opportunity is something that everyone else would definitely go for so let's just go ahead and do it. But it's definitely just about finding people that are on the same page. the whole way. You know, it's like, we know what the goal is. We know what we want out of what we're doing and we go for it. And we all bring our strengths to the table. And I think that it's, it sounds kind of crappy to say, because, you know, a lot of people are like, you know, being in music is supposed to be fun. Like it's supposed to be like the best time ever. And it is, but we very much are accustomed to running our musical projects like a business and you want your business to be successful and you want to have fun in the process, obviously, but there are so many other things that if you're lacking, there's just a lot that you'll miss. And not to say that running it that way is a guaranteed, you're gonna be successful, no problem. But if you can balance the art and the business aspect, you're in a really good place to start from. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: And before either you guys jump in, I just want to point out, like, obviously, a lot of people who are in bands would say, ⁓ when you run it like a business, then you take the fun or the artistic integrity of it. And I think that's all complete bullshit because everybody wants to be successful to the point where they use their music to survive, live off of right. Like they want to live off their music. The only. only way you can do that is either get incredibly lucky that you know somebody at a label or you know somebody happens to spot you and sign you and make you a lot of money or you treat it like an actual business like you would a job and put in the work just like a job. Right. So I think when people hear something like that and they say, ⁓ that sounds that sounds boring. I don't want my band to be like a job. Well, then go work. Go do your job. speaker-1: and have your music as a hobby. speaker-0: Right? Like that other alternative solution. So I just want to point out that like if anybody has a problem with running a band like a business, you probably don't want to be successful. speaker-3: Yeah. And the people that are treating it that way, they're treating it not like a business or getting into it and having somebody else run it for you, then you're losing your ability to negotiate. You're losing your ability to have your freedom. And then those are the people, those are the bands, the artists that burn out faster because they're like, Well, I don't get to choose what I'm doing as us or bands that do run it like a business. Yeah, we have our integrity. We have our artistic freedom to do our things. We know what we want and it's not somebody telling us what we need or what we want. It's the that's I you got to run it like a business and yeah, it's hard going from the business side to also the artistic side, but you know, that's what will make you successful is if you're able to do both. speaker-1: Yep. speaker-0: Yeah, and I think obviously you guys have been around for about eight years just to kind of give everybody kind of like a background, quick background. You guys have been around for about eight years, I think 2018, 2017, somewhere there's when you started Crimson Riot, you've been playing a lot longer than that. You guys have been in other bands. You also have side projects and stuff like that. And like I mentioned, the Roxy Gunn project is like a cover band. think Bear Supply, I think that's also a cover band that you're in. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: So yeah, there's always and Chris, you've played with like lots of other, you know, successful bands. You've filled in musical roles of different. You need them on drums. You them on bass, you need them on guitar, singing, whatever. He'll just jump in. He'll do whatever. exactly. And he just goes in there and does it one day notice or whatever. It doesn't matter. You guys like. speaker-2: Swiss Army men. speaker-3: Yeah, a couple hours. speaker-1: Exactly. speaker-0: You guys also did win, you know Topgolf competition which was for which was called who will rock you that was back in 2018 a big you know, nice little check came along with that You guys have also toured and played and and had some cool, know experiences like you've played with the dickies mad caddies bomb pops I mean tons of other bands at this point, but you know you you have been around long enough I would say you you always no matter who in the scene comes up They kind of always fizzle out where you guys kind of, you know, I would say the cream rise at the top. You guys have been at the top of the Las Vegas music scene for a while. And I'm going to say like who's the best, who's the worst, like whatever. There's no hierarchy, but there is a clear like top tier, right? And you guys are up in the top tier of the bands in Vegas, in my opinion, and probably most people who listen to bands in Vegas would say this exact same thing. And you guys have stayed at that that level for years and years. So, you know, you do have what I would call an expertise in this area of you what does it take to be a successful band because you've been doing it you've done it and and you still continue to do it and Speaking of which you guys just are about to release your third length full length album called third times a charm I've listened to it. I like it a lot. You've already released two singles You know off of the album and the last one I think it was just came out a couple days ago when this airs It'll be probably a couple weeks before but you guys have put out a couple videos now ⁓ so Before we go into the kind of what it takes to be successful independent band, and we've already talked a little bit about it. And I appreciate your conceptual overview, talking about owning your own rights and everything. That's a huge part of, think, being successful as an independent artist as well. But I wrote a review for the album. I think everybody can go check that out. But check out the album, check out the videos and stuff. All the links to that stuff will be in the show notes. But let's talk about the process. of choosing the songs on the album because I think you know, you could have re-released some songs you could have probably, you know, because this is the first vinyl pressing for you guys. But you guys as far as I know, these are all brand new songs. I hadn't heard them before. So I mean, I've heard them maybe once or twice in concert. hadn't heard them on recording. So kind of talk with me and I did ask you about this kind of in the written interview. But what did you guys do? How did you kind of hone these songs down? And then when we talk about the recording and release of this album? speaker-1: But I speaker-0: What was different about this versus some of your previous albums? speaker-2: previous albums we recorded them way differently. took a different approach to this one and did a lot of just we weren't on a time crunch and so we were just kind of sitting there going well we should just kind we should really really make this exactly what we want it to be and what we wanted it to be was that big kind of like fill your stereo sound And so we really did the research on like how to achieve that. Like how do we achieve the sound that we're looking for? So, you know, we did the research. Went in the studio, did everything that we had learned about and, and, you know, studied and everything else. And what we came away with was a really great record that we're really proud of. And we got the sound we wanted. And I mean, the first time we got a mix back, we were just like, ⁓ shit, like this is different. Like this is really different. And. It was also an interesting process because at the time we were writing these songs, ⁓ Ryan J wasn't actually in the band at the time. My brother was playing drums for us. And so he wrote a lot of the drum parts and then Ryan J came back and we were like, okay, here's the album. have to learn it now. You get to put your own spin on it. ⁓ Which was also really cool because it was a learning process for Chris and I, especially because we'd been playing these songs for a little bit with RJ. And then they're a little bit different now. So it's like, was kind of an interesting thing to take that to the studio as well. Just like a, a different kind of energy, a different sort of style, ⁓ taking that in and, and laying it all down. But it was, it was a fun time. It's always great. I saw studios gets the best recordings out of all of us, I feel. And then Mikey Tucker mixed it like an absolute legend. So we're just really happy with how it turned out this time and taking our time and really going. Are we actually happy with this? Because we were supposed to release the record in January and speaker-3: No, we were supposed to release. were going to. ⁓ First it was November. And yeah, we yeah. Yeah. And then it was January and then and then we're like, well, we had we had a we had our very own Yoda helping us, guiding us on this release. ⁓ He our friend Dominic, he's you know, he ran a label up in the Bay Area for four years and he was like, look, I'm going to tell you straight. speaker-1: So. speaker-2: person who's speaker-3: He's like, don't release any time after he's like two weeks before Thanksgiving all the way until March. He's like, don't release an album. He's like, it's the worst time. No one's going to buy it. You're not going to get any press on it. Cause no one's and, and sure enough, like we pushed back and now it's like, ⁓ I get it. I see what he was talking about. speaker-1: People are. speaker-0: So and they just spent a bunch of money. So yeah. speaker-3: That was the thing was Christmas was right there and everyone was, you know, buying Christmas gifts. And then right after Christmas, you're paying off your credit cards, you're going back to work because you had time off and now money, you have to wait for the first couple of paychecks to come in and then people will be willing to spend money again. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, and this is the same thing with like movie releases. You don't see too many blockbusters released in January or February, right? it's media. Like people want to like even if you have, you know, just been disposable or expendable income, you know, they're probably not going to be going like, know, I'm going to put down 40, 50 bucks on, you know, a vinyl record right now because got all these other things to focus on. Right. So, yeah, I mean, that's a good it's a good idea. I still see people, you know, launching, you know, albums in January and it's it's fine. Usually. You know, it's because they pushed it back far enough already. But I'm like, honestly, what's another three months if you're just going to keep pushing it back? Like, why not just wait? And, know, I've even seen bands that push it back a year and then still launch in January. I'm like, what are you doing? and not only that, but like, and this isn't necessarily for this consideration, but, know, end of the year awards, right? If you launch in January, nobody remembers that that was in January, right? They just think that that was so long ago. That can't possibly be still this year because like anything that happens in January, that feels like it was two, three years ago by the end of the year. it's like, yeah, ⁓ it's easy to forget about really good albums released early in the year. But yeah, you're right. Like March and beyond, you know, around Easter and stuff, know, sales and stuff start picking up. I think that's a good idea. And you either need to be on it with Christmas. Like if you're going to launch in November or Christmas time, you're either really on it or just wait. Like you guys said. speaker-3: Yeah, if you're a Green Day sized band and you're going to release in December, you're going to sell. People are going to buy your album. But when you're an indie band, ⁓ especially when you're DIY releasing on your own, no, no one is looking for your album for a Christmas gift. speaker-0: released an album like I recorded it all and mixed it myself like whatever it was like seven years ago something like that 2019 or something something like that and I made the joke that I released it the same week as Weezer and they only beat me by 400,000 copies. speaker-2: So close. Only. speaker-1: 400,000. speaker-3: We just had that issue. We just released State of Despair on Friday and we're all looking at the analytics and we're like, wow, this is not performing like it did with Cross the Line. like, did we mess up? And we were talking to, have a publicist right now for this album. We were talking to him he was like, yeah, you released a single on the same day Newfound Glory released their new album. And it's like, ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: Yeah, that sucks. ⁓ speaker-2: That's happened to us in a couple different facets. So like this, this kind of thing with the single and then a couple of years ago we were on tour and in three of the cities that we were playing in, Teenage Bottle Rocket was also playing in those cities. In, when we played in New Mexico, they were literally next door. speaker-0: Now that's crazy. speaker-1: you speaker-2: I was just like, could it get any worse? speaker-0: Like stand outside and wait for people who can't get him, like, come over here, it's fine. speaker-2: Yeah, that's what we were trying to do. We were just like, okay, let's see it. Some stragglers that are like, I need tickets. It's like, come in here. We'll take care of you. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: It's like, you want to pay $30 or 10? And they paid the $30. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: this was the first time that you guys have pressed on vinyl did you think about releasing some of the kind of more hit songs that you guys have the singles that you've had before was it like hey we just want to do this completely from scratch speaker-2: It was definitely, we wanted to do it from scratch. mean, there's, there is a plan later on to re-release the first two records on vinyl. ⁓ but at this point we were just kind of like, okay, we have this new record. It sounds amazing. we, based on the recordings we got back, we decided that this was definitely the right move for our first vinyl release. It just sounds bigger than the other two albums. And if we were going to, you know, put in the effort and spend the money and all that we wanted to put our best foot forward. And we definitely feel like this is in the realm of our best foot. So we wanted to make sure that we kind of ⁓ sealed that with a vinyl release since we've never done it before. And everybody has been, you know, telling us for years, like you got to get vinyl, you got to get vinyl. We're like, you know, we know it's just it's expensive. And then COVID happened and that wax museum or the wax factory burned down. And that was the whole thing. And it was just like, were waiting a year and a half to get records. And so we decided that since everything was kind of moving, everything was going really well. This album sounded great. This was going to be the, the vinyl, which is kind of funny. So I realized that like, I'm not in the most like attractive, ⁓ video chat space. Cause all the records are like right here next to me. Looks like I'm in a warehouse. yeah, proof there. Yeah, they're just right there. speaker-3: We have a plan to either release the first two albums or do a completely kind of like, I don't want to say greatest hits because we don't have any hits. But like picking three songs of every album and making a vinyl of that kind of like a sampler, like here's what we are. ⁓ But we did on the vinyl, there are bonus tracks on the vinyl ⁓ and we actually did play their live versions of two of our older songs that are on the vinyl. They're live. ⁓ We did a show on Fremont Street. ⁓ It was blistering cold. yeah, so those two songs are on the vinyl as well. So there is a couple of older songs. speaker-1: think one of the really fun things that stick out for me about this new album is ⁓ the song State of Despair, that single we just released. ⁓ That just like kind of came out of nowhere at the end, right guys? Like that was like not one of the songs. And Chris is like, I got this riff idea? And we just like... wrote the song in one day of like jamming and it was like such a cool such a cool thing because i had just come back and like like they said ⁓ my son rj had kind of written all the parts from all the previous songs already so i was just kind of playing a lot of what he was doing ⁓ so it was kind of fun that i actually got to like have some input at least in one song there at the end when we had the State of Despair song ⁓ and it was really cool. It was super fun and we had a great time like doing that song. speaker-0: That's definitely the most stick it to the man type of song on the album as well. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, so it's. speaker-3: That's not that's about unicorns and and rainbows Everything's fine speaker-0: I'm going government at all. speaker-1: See you. speaker-2: Yeah, no, definitely not. Everything's fine. speaker-3: Everything's fine. It's on fire, but it's fine. got it. Don't worry. It's the best fire. speaker-0: One thing I think that you guys did that was a very smart thing and not every get every brand does this kind of stuff and This is kind of one of the things it takes to be successful is to think outside the box think ahead Think about your release think about the ways that you're release it. How are you gonna do it? What are you gonna offer on stuff, right? So you guys did the early bird pre-sale package bonuses where you did include extra bonus tracks on the album You did include extra goodies, you know poker chip. I can't remember all the stuff But all the stuff that you guys obviously included in the pre-sale packages, right? And that's what a lot of people I think don't really think about is like How do get people to buy early? Same thing when you talk about going to a show, it's like, ⁓ let's take $5 off of it, right? Yeah, there you go, keychain and the poker chip. ⁓ It's like just offering a discount isn't quite what people want. People want the best experience with the band and the music, right? I don't think they just necessarily want a cheaper version of something. So when you guys did that, did you guys have any instruction from somebody to do something like this? Or has it been something that you've been wanting to do? Or what kind of got you guys to bundle up these pre-sale bonuses and stuff like that to put them on there? speaker-2: It's actually something we've always done. ⁓ Ever since the first album, we always did a pre-order package that had some extra stuff in it. Because, you know, again, running your band like a business, you have to think, okay, what's going to make people go, this is worth it? So obviously, our fans think that just us releasing music is worth it, which is great, but we wanted to give them a little bit something more. So I think the every single album we put out has a patch that goes along with it. We used to do baseball cards. ⁓ We've what else have we? I'm trying to think of like what else we've done, but we've always done some sort of preorder package type thing. And it's really it's not so much about like a sales point as much as is about thanking people for like taking the initiative and believing in us enough to be like, you know what? I'm not even going to wait till the album comes out. I'm just going to get it now. And we really think that that's worth something, know, just just the support in itself is worth something a little bit extra than just like, thanks for buying our record. And so we always try to to kind of base the the extra stuff around the album theme. doing the the poker chip and doing the the motel room key along with the patch is just kind of ⁓ a little, you know. Extra thing that is with the theme, you the cover of the album is like a super awesome art piece by our friend, Johnny Larson from Kids on Fire. And it's kind of like a downtown Vegas feel. So we went with like old school Vegas vibe. So that's the motel room key and the poker chip and all that stuff. But we've always done the extra stuff in the pre-order packages. speaker-3: Yeah, I'm looking here and it took an apocalypse was a patch of sticker and a card. ⁓ that was that was and we autograph everything. speaker-1: Yeah, and on the first album, we put everybody's name inside. speaker-3: Did that on both albums. speaker-0: I assume you're saying like anybody who like purchased the album, you put them in the liner notes, that kind of thing. speaker-3: Pre-order, speaker-1: Yeah, the pre-order whoever bought the pre-order we had like a deadline. So once that was done, I put all the names of the people inside and then we sent it the CD and that was just CD. So I sent the CD off for print. But yeah, I that was just cloud. speaker-3: Now you're right, yeah, we didn't do it the second time. I've never seen the inside of it take an apocalypse. I've never seen the inside of this one. speaker-1: Because we are speaker-2: There you go. speaker-1: We try to add some value to the stuff for when people pre-order. Like Roxy said, we wanna give them a lot of love back for being a pre-order fan. speaker-0: In terms of online sale, online selling sales, all this stuff removed from music. People do this for like when they release new products, release new programs, training courses, consultation. They, you know, they call it a marketing funnel, right? And this is something that people don't realize that exists when they join a band. They have to do stuff like marketing, which. I know it sucks because like doing your own marketing is really tough because then you have to talk about yourself compliment yourself all this stuff you have to angle yourself especially as a DIY band but this is exactly how you do it you don't talk about yourself you you make the experience better for the fans you know you put them in liner notes you guys are much much more polished obviously you have a fan base you play live shows so you can bring people in right like you can say hey you know anybody who's you know on our social media on our email list whatever you can market that stuff too And that really brings, you know, the extra bit of experience, right? You can talk to them directly. speaker-2: Absolutely, and we've always tried to, you know, be very, I guess, you know, kind of fans first, like we really appreciate the support that we get from every person that's ever bothered to listen to us or bothered to buy stuff or bothered to show up to a show or speaker-0: think you mean have had the privilege of. speaker-2: Yeah, it has had the privilege. ⁓ But it's just always, because you can you can be a great band all you want. But if nobody is there to buy your records or show up to your shows or wear your shirt around, know, it's it. What are you doing? Like, it's it's not that's not what we're in this for. And we love playing live shows, which is why we tour so much. And we love being in front of people and meeting people. And it's just, it's, always a really nice thing. You know, it's like still to this day, there's places we've been that we haven't been in years and some friends will go on tour and we get some sort of message of a picture of some random person in our shirt or our hoodie or whatever. And it's like, ⁓ my God, we haven't been there in four years, you know, but people are still keeping, keeping us relevant. And that's, that's a, that's something we can't do on our own and that deserves to be rewarded. Absolutely. speaker-0: So let's talk about this because obviously part of this episode that I wanted to put out was kind of the kind of secrets to success for an indie rock band, which I think you guys are considered a successful musician, successful rock band. Even if people have never heard of you, even if you guys don't have a million streams on Spotify, I don't really think that that's ever been the classification for success because AI artists get a million streams and they're not even fucking real. what are we even talking about? Streaming is one thing. It's again. I think when you play and you can go to a show and the room is full, that is usually the sign of who's successful and who's not because those streaming artists show up, know, a town they've never been, but they've got a million streams and nobody shows up to the show, right? Cause nobody knows who the hell they are. Real people don't. So I think, you know, we'll break this down into kind of five topics. ⁓ And then these five, they're not really secrets, but they're so goddamn underrated as. terms of like what you should do as a rock band that people just overlook it and they try to shortcut that success route to the top, right? So number one, like you said, play live shows often and then actually interact with the bands and the fans there, right? Most people will, you know, kind of interact with some fans at a merch table, but they don't really try to become friends with the other bands. They don't really talk to, they don't go out. They're not friendly about it. You know, they just want people to like their music. And then if they don't, so what, fuck them, right? Like that's, kind of most, I won't say most, but let's say there's a good portion of rock musicians specifically that kind of have that attitude. Like, oh, you didn't like it. Well, I'm just going to go smoke cigarettes in the back and get drunk or something like that. And that happens like. Like you'll see a band at almost every show do that. So I think you know, the best way obviously to get yourself is to get your you know, get yourself out there get your music show all that stuff in front of people no matter how many people are there could be 10 people five people one person somebody if it's even if it's just a bartenders or whatever and like one person drinking that's better than nothing right? And I you guys play a lot of live shows. So do think there's a balance you have to find between playing too many shows kind of enough shows and then you know obviously not having people show up because you play too often, but what is your response to when somebody says you guys might play too often or somebody might play too often? speaker-3: I'm gonna answer this one, because I do all the bookings and ⁓ I manage another band, but I also offer advice, just solely based on, like you were saying, people look up to us as successful. And I tell them, it's like, something I learned a long time ago from a lot of promoters here in town, ⁓ and even touring managers and all that, it's like, Yes, there is. You want to play. You want to get out there. You want to get your music heard. You want to build a fan base. But if you're playing every week, every other week, you're going to start getting the mentality of people going, I saw them last week. I can see them again. And, you know, they're playing next week. I'll go see them then. But then next week comes around. They're like, ah, well, they're playing in two weeks. I'll see them then. And then it becomes those people don't come to see you anymore. And when you take a break from playing so much, Like we do, we don't play Vegas very often. And we get asked all the time, like, hey, you guys want to play? it's like, that shows within like three to four weeks of when we just played or we're going to be playing. It's not, we can't do it because I'm not going to promote your show. You know, I'm going to promote this other one first. And so we, just kind of tell people it's like, look, I get you want to play and you're having fun. But if you're trying to build something, playing every week, playing every other week, playing every month is not a smart idea. Let it breathe. If you wanna play every week, then take the weekend and go play Arizona, go play California, go play Utah, go to New Mexico, do those on the weekend if you wanna play every week. Because that's the only way you're going to build a fan base. If you're staying at home and just playing every week, you're not. And I'm guilty of that. My first band that I fronted, We wanted to play every single chance we got. we did, we lived across the street from, yeah, we played across, we lived across the street from the Cheyenne Saloon. You know how many times they would call us last minute, like, hey, we had a band drop off, can you guys be here? It's like, yeah, we live across the street, I was gonna come drink anyway, so. speaker-1: ⁓ speaker-0: Thank you. speaker-3: Yeah, I'm just gonna pack up my gear. But I want to go back to real quick. And then I know these guys can jump in. We have a rule with our band when we play shows. And that is you watch the other bands. Granted, like myself or Ryan, when we get off stage, all three of us get off stage because we don't have a roadie or anything like that. We carry our gear out. We'll stay in the back and we'll pack up all the stuff and let Roxy go and watch because you know, Roxy is the face of the band. We know that. But we have a rule, it's like, okay, after we're done, let's go inside, let's watch the bands. And when we're on tour, we're there, we're the first band there, we're the last band to leave. We watch everyone, we try to meet everyone, and we don't treat it as we're meeting fans, we're meeting friends. And that's, I think that's what helps us, you know, be memorable is, man, that touring band didn't sit in the green room at all, they like sat and watched our whole set, Roxy's taking pictures and. We're meeting them, talking to them afterwards. And we always, that's the rule that we have. It's, there's no going outside the smoke. There's no going and hanging out on the, on the bus. It's, just hang out and watch the bands because they're going to remember, ⁓ dude, remember that Crimson Riot band? They like watch our entire set. They were really cool. Well, they're coming back and when you guys want to play with them and it's always a yes. You know, we're getting bands begging us to come back to their cities because we're, you know, professional. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: And I think that's, you I think it was like even Sesame Street there, like, you know, people in different cities are just friends you haven't met yet. Right. Like there's this. speaker-1: This is actual way. speaker-0: They're not just strangers that are staring at you going like who the fuck are these people? They're like they want to enjoy the show. So as long as you're willing to engage with them, they're going to engage back. Right. So fans and bands alike. And that's a you know, not every band that goes on goes on a tour gets asked back or gets to go back out because they don't do this. And you know, some of the most successful punk bands and and what I would consider long term successful punk bands like a bowling for Sue less than Jay. Some of these bands are just friends with literally everybody they would know somebody in literally every city right teenage bottle rock another example like they know someone in literally every city they go to so like when they go on tour it's like we're gonna get somebody we're gonna pull a local band we're gonna pull you know this small group of people that already like pre-selling like 20 tickets just because of Friendships that they've made over the years, right? So like they kind of know that that's part of the game and I wouldn't call that part of the game I would call that like part of the privilege of being an onstage musician, right? Like you get to play for people who actually like to hear you and want to see you again Like that's got to be the ultimate reward for any band, right? I mean Album sales aside the most successful bands are the ones that keep doing it and keep actually filling rooms And that's what I consider to be a successful band that's why I have you guys on here and not Green Day because you know, they They were about to jump on, you know, last minute in replacement if you guys didn't show up. speaker-2: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's solid for sure. That's nice. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And when you when you're when you're a touring band, especially, you know, it's like you're you're hitting a city one time. And so. If you're an asshole, people are going to remember that that band from wherever they were assholes. And so your local reputation is given life by the people that you played with, that you played in front of. by how you treated the bar staff, by how you treated the door guy, or did you tip the bathroom attendant? So you have to keep all these things in mind because once you leave, your reputation is in the hands of all of those people that you met. And if you take off into the sunset and they're like, wow, those guys were dicks, never again. And unfortunately, we've had those experiences where a band has come to Vegas and we're like, okay, cool, awesome. And they were just super rude. soup, you know, the bartender to like, fuck these guys, you know what I mean? And it's just like, that sucks. That really sucks. And you have to be careful with stuff like that. You have to be very mindful of the fact that like, your whole livelihood is in the hands of a bunch of strangers that you have like two minutes to impress. And if you're not being your best self, then you're not doing that job, which is very, very important. And You know, but like, like Chris said, we have a rule where we watch all the bands, you know, it's like we've played venues that have absolutely gorgeous green rooms, like fantastic green rooms. The only thing I use it for is if I have to change and put makeup on, or if I don't want to use the bathroom out in the venue because there's a line. We don't, we don't hang out or whatever. Yeah. speaker-1: covered speaker-0: or something like some of them. Yeah, and one thing I can say and this is kind of like a behind the scenes kind of thing but and if you don't want me to include this in the actual episode let me know but you know I've been on the side of the promotion where you know I actually have to pay out bands at the end of the night and you know local bands usually want a certain amount like they they want to be paid to be and I want to pay everybody like that's how I always do when I and you weren't speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: may not be in the first band, but you were definitely one of the first bands when I went to pay. You said give it to the touring band, give our share to the touring band. And that's something that not every band does. And obviously the touring band is going to remember that so that when you come to their town, you know, you don't have to expect it, but it would be nice if they did the same for you, right? Like, but it is a good rule of thumb. If you're going to play with a touring band and obviously if you're playing with three or four, you can't, know, you know. They try to spread it out. But you if you're playing with a single touring band coming to your place, let them have the proceeds like they've got to go a lot farther to, know, to get to where they're going. Then you got to go at the end of the night, right? So, you know, that's just an aside piece. You know, you want a real secret for, being a successful band, pay the touring band out of your stuff. So that way when you go on tour, you might get that reciprocation back so you can get down further down the road. And that's something that not every band is willing to do. speaker-1: Yeah, and along with that too, is we always, if we're playing a show and there's a touring band and we're hosting them, ⁓ we try to push our fans to buy their merch as well, right? So, and we'll give them our cut and then we'll tell our fans like, hey, you guys already have our stuff, go buy their stuff. You know, they're on tour, go buy their shirts, go buy their music, go whatever. And so I think that... And you're 100 % right. mean that and we've seen a lot of bands do that for us as well as us for them. So I think it's kind of catching on. It's becoming like this really cool ⁓ like I don't know what you call it. Like it's just it's punk. It's punk code, right? Like it's. Yeah. speaker-2: Absolutely. speaker-0: So let's talk about the second and kind of flip side of this. ⁓ The second tip to being a successful indie band is and Chris, I think you touched on this and we'll get a little bit more into it, but go to shows that you don't play in and interact with the bands and the fans. Right. So first play your own shows, interact with bands and fans there, but then go to other shows, show up for the community, show up for the scene, show up for the culture and do all that stuff. Right. So like, you know, show it shows that you are part of the music industry or you know the livelihoods of the music musicians and artists in your scene and I actually have seen and spoken to you guys at shows that you aren't playing in that you came to just watch and I know everybody's tired like you know it's usually like 10 p.m. or you know one o'clock in the morning everybody's tired they've had a long day had a long week to have some drinks hang out and it's like I don't You kind of have to probably push yourself out the door sometimes, but you guys actually do it right. You guys actually, you know, commit to it. And I think that, you know, there are other bands that again, don't even watch the other bands play in their own shows. I've literally seen bands pack up and just leave after their set, which fucking drives me nuts. But then you never see them out at other bands shows, right? Like you never see them doing anything. Those are the people that's easier to write off. Like all the bands that I've seen do that. I don't think are currently a band and this isn't just in last five years alone. Right. So They couldn't even make it two, three, four years as a band because of the bullshit, right? Like the ego, the you know, the I don't have time for this. I'm doing this as like a, you know, a gift to the person who wanted to start the band or whatever. Like, but you guys actually go out and support other bands. You are friends with many, many bands, the minges, the out there. Like, you know, you're talking about managing other bands and stuff. You know, you guys have lots and lots of friends. mean, I can't possibly list them all. It's like I think you're probably friends with, I would say, a good 90 percent of, 30 plus or 25 plus bands in Las Vegas, right? So, ⁓ easy. you go into these other shows. speaker-1: going to. speaker-3: When you've been doing it as long as we have in this town, know, we watch a lot of bands ask us go, Hey, we're thinking about starting a band. What do you think? It's like, go do it. You know, like, go for it. speaker-1: I'll probably watch your show. speaker-3: ⁓ Ryan, Ryan gets to go to more shows than Roxy and I do, ⁓ just solely based on work schedules. And it, and it, it bums us out because if, if you're not playing during like off nights in Vegas, chances are Roxy and I can't go to the show. Cause you know, we, work in the cover industry. So Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sundays, we're usually working. ⁓ but this past week, we actually had, ⁓ we had some nights off and we got to go see ⁓ ham bone ⁓ and the rifleman well ham bone by himself with the rifleman string band ⁓ and who else but that's ⁓ the the odd advantage from california we just played with them but we got to go to gray witch on a thursday night and see a show and and then ⁓ friday night roxy and ryan went to mr dark's delirium is that right and you guys went to pandemonium yeah yeah you guys went to that so Yeah, it's hard for us, but if we get a chance, it's like, okay, we'll go. I mean, we played a show last year in Laughlin. It was a one night show. opened for the Killers. ⁓ Now, mind you, was our... Yeah, we opened. It was our cover band playing two and a half hours before the Killers even got to the venue. But we got done, we packed up and we drove as fast as we could back to Vegas. speaker-0: got you. speaker-3: to see the out there play on Fremont Street and surprise them because they didn't think we were going to make it. So yeah, we like to support the bands here in town because for a long time there was a really good tight knit community when I was growing up playing music in this town and it kind of lost its way. And so we kind of, we want to bring that back and we hope newer bands see that. Like you have to go and support other bands. speaker-1: is this really interesting network of like younger bands. We just we haven't really encountered them yet because they can't play the bar scene yet. But I saw this firsthand going to this going to this show and they they they were doing the thing they were all supporting each other and they were you know hyping each other up and you know every every band watched every band and so they they they were getting the gist of it. I'm hoping that when that generation kind of, you know, start seeping into, you know, our world or our our scene as far as like the, you know, 21 and older group. I hope that that they can bring that along with them and kind of fit into that that space with us, which was really cool. So it was kind of fun to see. It was really fun to see that that happened. speaker-0: this kind of goes into the third thing so I'll make this kind of a great little segue is they make good music and they're good people right so that's kind of the tip number three is make good music but also be good people and one points ones and two kind of tie into that be a good person by going to shows watching other people support the other bands meet the fans all that stuff but be actually good people Because I think you actually said this, Roxy, talent only goes so far when you're an asshole. Nobody wants to work with you anymore. So you could be the best like Oasis, one of the best bands. know, arguably, I like their music, but I wouldn't say in my opinion, they're not one of the top 10 bands or anything. They're worldwide famous band, though. And. speaker-1: It's. speaker-0: Just, you know, for years, nobody really wanted to be around them because they're toxic. Right. So like even if they weren't fighting each other, they were mad at the venue. They're mad at their equipment. They're mad at, you know, the fans and yelling at people in the audience. Like it doesn't make any sense to do that. Like they're the reason why you are where you are. So like don't do that. ⁓ And then, you know, I'm not going to ask you guys to name names or anything, but I'm sure you guys are played with difficult people. And there's been bad bands with bad reputations that kind of cause an issue. But has that ever affected, like I assume it has, and I'm gonna kind of self answer this question, but have you ever worked with somebody and then decided not to work with them again or due to somebody else that you know saying that this is gonna be a difficult position to be in or a difficult band or people to work with, have you rejected those offers before? speaker-2: Thankfully, we've had really good luck with other bands who are just like really good people. They're kind of like on the same sort of ⁓ page as us as far as like how you should behave when you're playing a venue or when you're playing a show. ⁓ this one just comes to mind because it was recent-ish, I guess. I don't really remember the timeline. Never at the Killers, yeah. No, and I went to go see a show and a band had mentioned that they would like to play ⁓ something that we were doing and they were coming through town and I'm like, ⁓ should go check it out, whatever. And they were like super rude to the sound person. And I leaned over to Chris and I said, we can't have them. Like, I'm just, I'm not gonna... I'm not going to subject somebody to that kind of treatment because it's it's a live show. Like you just deal with the problem and you get through it. Like that's the whole thing. Like being a jerk to the person that's trying to make you sound good and it's like, okay, sorry, there was a bad cable. didn't know. Like whatever the issue was, like having a full meltdown is not helpful. Like everybody's already stressed out and now you're stressing everybody else out and you look like a dick. So it's like... Yeah, so I put the kibosh on that like immediately. was like, nope, can't have it. speaker-0: Yeah, I've seen too many times where somebody blames the sound person. like, who gives a shit like it's live. Nobody in the audience unless it's like just constant feedback and it's actually hurting people's ears and like driving people to go outside or something like if it's barely noticeable like of course other musicians are going to notice it because it's like well, that's that's just fucking annoying but Most of the crowd is just going to be watching. don't hear the lyrics most of time. They're just having fun. Right. So like if there's a little static or a little bit of feedback, it's to be expected. But yeah, if you're going to calling out the sound person, which I have seen myself and I'm like, you're not going to get booked again. Like, trust me, this venue is not going to book you again. These bands that you're playing with, none of the fans are going to come watch you because you're acting like a jackass on stage. speaker-2: Exactly. speaker-3: Yeah, the worst person, there's two people you'd never wanna piss off at a venue. Number two on that is the owner. But number one's your sound guy. Because the sound guy, he doesn't give a shit and he's gonna get paid at the end of the night anyway. I've worked sound before in venues and it's like, look, I can hit the mute button, turn on the house music and go outside and start smoking again. Like I don't need your shit. Like I'm getting paid by the venue. So that's one thing too, is, you know, going, if you want to be professional and especially if you're playing places you've never played before, the first thing we do is introduce ourselves to the sound guy. We say, how you doing? What's your name? You know, I'm Chris. That's Roxy. That's Ryan. Pleasure to be here. ⁓ and they kind of give them a rundown of who we are, what we do, stuff like that, but always. talk to the sound guy and be like, hey, you know, we're here to have a good time. And sometimes you'll meet the grumpy sound guys and all that. But once they realize that you're a professional, that usually ends. But yeah, never piss off your sound guy. Because we always say like in our cover gigs, when we have a sound guy, like, hey, everybody, this is our sound guy. Give it up for them. You know, they have the ability to hit the suck button, but they didn't hit it tonight. It's like, that's That's absolutely true. Like they can just make you sound like shit. Like if you're rude to a sound guy, they could purposely make you sound like shit. And then people in the audience would be like, ⁓ man, dude, that band sucked. That was the sound guy. speaker-1: It's like the speaker-0: You know those old cartoons that I have that big hook that pull you off stage is basically that but you're still standing up there like, ⁓ we look like dickheads now. speaker-2: Yeah, exactly. speaker-0: On the flip side of this, do you think that you guys have had opportunities open up to you guys because you're actually good people? Because I would consider you to the opposite of these assholes that we are talking about. So do you guys think that there's been some advantageous opportunities that have come your way because you're actually good people? speaker-1: think our network across the country is really solid. And I think that's a huge, huge thing. Because when we first started touring, ⁓ we didn't know anybody. didn't know any places. We were playing to like one guy and a bartender at a lot of venues. But we made great connections with the other bands. And so that kind of started the ball rolling for us, I think. And that seemed to be kind of more of the important thing of like, Let's go out, be professional. Let's meet a whole bunch of bands along the way and then start expanding this network to kind of go back to that other, those other points where the bands from XYZ or whatever, know, city are like, those dudes were cool, man. So yeah, hey, hit us up next time you want to come through. We'll set up another show. Yada yada. So that, you know, that I think that that's super, super important. But ⁓ yeah, I think that probably is the best. thing we've gotten out of like trying to be cool and professional and good people. speaker-0: Yeah, I would say that's a huge, huge opportunity because you're getting the chance to go back, probably play to more people the next time, right? Because it's like, exactly. This place anymore. You're playing this place or you know, it's on a different day of the week. It's a Saturday instead of a Tuesday and you know, Pittsburgh or I don't know, Scranton or whatever some random city, right? Not saying anything bad about Pennsylvania. Just the first two, you know, Northeast kind of cities that came to mind. But yeah, you get that kind of opportunity to play and then they're going to say, hey, you know what? You're no longer maybe the opening band. Maybe you're the supporting band and the opener is, you know, a local band or something like that. So you get a little bit better opportunity to think as as they see that you are professional, that you are good people, you're easy to work with and you'll play to the back of one guy at a bar, you know, and a bartender who's just staring at you like, are you guys going to be done anytime soon? speaker-1: kind of thing. speaker-0: Hopefully the bartenders like you too, because ⁓ you know, that's good. ⁓ speaker-1: That's a good. That's. Another thing. Yeah. Yeah. You want you want that bartender to to dig you to because they're going to talk to the owner if the owner's not there. You know, the owner is going to come in the next day in the morning to count his cash and the bartender is going to be like, this band was incredible. They were so nice and so professional and they sounded great and blah, blah, blah. And I bought their shirt or whatever. They gave me a CD or whatever. So there's always that thing. And so I think, yeah, bartender, sound guy, those people are like. super important and then all the bands that you play with that's as well super important so speaker-0: So then I think number four on this list, it kind of goes with this and it's a little bit of playing to the backs of people or want to playing to one person or playing to the bartenders. it's give a good experience, especially with your live shows, but also with your music. And we talked about, you know, giving the pre-sale bonuses and stuff like that. But, you know, I've seen you guys play live. had the privilege as I say, privilege of watching you guys live multiple times and you always do something that's unique to your band. You know, it could be the same every time for your band, but you know, kind of mix it up a little bit here and there. But like I know you guys, for example, well, let's say, you know, offering something that other bands don't give gives your show a unique place. So that way people even if they've seen you before they want to go back to kind of re-experience it have that fun that they know that they're going to have and all that stuff. And again, that kind of builds up that success over time. Right. People are like You know, I had a good experience like and I know you guys when you play the Roxy Gunn project to like you do that with your with your cover stuff as well. Like people want to come see you as a cover band because they're like, man, you played Bon Jovi or whatever. And then you did this thing afterwards that I was like, ⁓ that's awesome. And then, you know, they go they go and remember that and then they come to see you again. But like I know, for example, like you guys will do a toast, right? Like you have your own unique toast at your shows. You take the shot or, you know, drink your whatever. It could could be Kool-Aid. I don't I don't judge. speaker-1: You can speaker-0: But then you guys also like obviously do some smart things like you have the megaphone on your your stand for you know, when you're talking with the drive through, I think it's like a milkshake. I can't remember the name of the song. Yeah, like you're ordering a milkshake through the megaphone. So it sounds like you're going through a drive through you interact with people you talk and you kind of break things down so that people can actually feel like they are interactive and that there's a show going on as opposed to just a local band playing 10 songs or eight songs as fast as they can and just walking off stage. Right. So speaker-1: Why? speaker-0: What is kind of your guys's experience your opinions and like your motivation to get the crowd on your side because obviously everybody wants to be engaging but it's hard for some people to kind of break out of their comfort zone. But what have you guys seen with your kind of angle and your unique experiences that make people part of the show but also want to come back and see those things in the show? speaker-2: I think 15 years in the cover band industry, it's kind of a funny thing being the type of band that we are because we play in the cover band scene, which is a lot of people that can read charts and they've hired people and they've done all these big shows and they're super, super top tier professional musicians kind of thing. So some of them think that in the punk rock world, it's like, gosh, just a bunch of drunk guys that can only play three chords. And then on the flip side, you know, playing Don't Stop Believing for a bunch of tourists is like selling out in the punk world. So it's kind of a weird space to be in when you're doing both. But being in a cover band for as long as we have, I think has really helped us a lot in our show because kind of going back to what I had said before, our job is to make a room full of strangers. be on our side for the next three hours in like two minutes. I have two minutes to convince you that buying a $17 cocktail at a casino is going to be worth it. And that's my job. Like that's what I do for a living. So in order to keep people engaged, we've had to learn like tricks of the trade and to be engaging and to be entertaining. And it's, you know, a lot of people that there's kind of a debate that goes on, especially in like the original music world where There's a whole group of people that, you know, like the engaging thing, you know, you, you see bands like green day or blink one 82, these big bands, and they, they have like this banter between them and it's like a whole fun thing. And then, you know, you have, and everybody really loves it. And then there's another side where people are like, I don't give a shit what you have to say. Just play your five songs and leave. Yeah. Like people that believe that it should be like song, song, song, song, song. Good night. And I, and I, yeah. speaker-0: I'm into that will really play this goddamn song right now. speaker-1: out speaker-2: Totally. so like with the original band stuff, it's like when I see a band that just comes on stage and says, Hey, we're the such and such. And then they play nine songs and then go, thanks. Meet us at the merch table. Add us on Instagram. Good night. I'm like, I don't feel like I know you. Like I want to know you. want to know. Yeah, there's like, there's, there's, I feel like I'm not, I'm not like, we're not doing this together. You know what I mean? And. speaker-3: There's no connection. speaker-2: So, and some people that's just like their style of what they do and like, that's cool. But you know, for us, like we have really big personalities by nature. And I think we bring a lot of that to what we do in not just the cover band, but also Crimson Riot, because that's kind of all we know how to do is like put on a show. That's what we do. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-3: I learned a long time ago when I when I was 18, 17 18, I was a drummer for a punk rock band out of high school. And as soon as I got a car, and I had money coming in, I was going to concerts all the time. And I always just watched bands go, you know, I'm like, I want to do that. And watching the ones that became super successful and go, what did they do? different than these other bands and the bands that stick out of my mind. mean, Green Day was already successful at the point that I first saw them, but I was blown away by the way Billy Joe Armstrong got on stage and just captured the audience in just 10 seconds. Like him showing up on stage and then for the next two hours you were in the palm of his hand. Like he could do whatever he wanted. ⁓ The same and I... I'm going to say this band, don't listen to them anymore because of certain reasons, but Goldfinger was the same thing. It's like they had this interaction with the crowd that I said, okay, that's it. Real big fish. I'm like, that's it. You have to, you have to draw these people in and make them feel like they're part of the show. And then I saw bands that I always like, I was like, ⁓ man, I can't wait to see this band live. And then I saw them live and it's just like, womp, womp, like Really, that's the show? Like, this is the most boring thing I've ever seen. Didn't talk to the crowd and it's like, I wasted my five bucks seeing this man. speaker-0: Even if you are playing to one person and you're playing the same show that you would play to a thousand people for that one person, that becomes like a unique experience that, I'm not saying you guys play to one people or one person very often or anything like that. But you know what I mean? Like they always say like the people who become, you know, big, mostly successful bands would play to five people the same way they played a five thousand or fifty thousand people. And it's true. Like you see even the local bands here that are known for putting on great shows. They could play a house show, 20 people. could play a bar, 20 people. Then they can go play a music festival downtown for a thousand people and exactly the same performance from them and exactly the same reaction just on a multiplied level from the fans. They're all going crazy because this is exactly what they wanna see. speaker-2: Absolutely. Yeah, just ⁓ a couple examples of that ⁓ and I'll try to like make it very quick. ⁓ So Chris and I went to a show ⁓ at Grey Witch this past week and there was this band from New Jersey called Mojo Hand and it was like, I think it was their first time in Vegas. They hadn't been there. ⁓ It was the night where it rained really heavy. you know, obviously every most people know that Vegas people are allergic to the rain. You don't go outside. ⁓ So there was, you know, there was, was some sparse people over there. and we had just watched our friend, Hambone play. We were grabbing some drinks at the bar. The band had started and we were talking about like something and we all said, Hey, we should probably, you know, go and check out this band. So they were a few songs into their set and we walked into the venue and we were suddenly the only three people there. Like they had been playing to literally the sound guy. And they're an incredible band, like fantastic. Like I'd never seen them before. I was like instant fan. Like they are so good. And when we walked in, they were just up there. Like there was 5,000 people. Like they were just in the middle of Grand Garden, Madison Square. Like, I mean, they, did not care that there wasn't anybody in there. And when we came in, they just continued to do their show. Like everybody's sweating and they're you know, doing this thing and I'm like, damn man, like that is commendable. Like to play to no one is really hard, but they just, they're like, screw it, whatever. Yeah. Just leave it all out there. And, ⁓ you know, they're, they're just like, super, super awesome. When we played in Montreal, we had a really rough show and our one friend that we had in Montreal, ⁓ was there and we had played with, we had to fire a band from the bill. that morning, which was a whole other situation. The band that ended up showing up, they're like, well, we need to go first because we live two hours away. So we're going to dip right after the show. So we played our entire set for our one friend who just could not be happier. You know, and we just had to like put it all out there for him because he was just so excited that we were finally in his city and we were finally playing and he was just so happy. but yeah, like that's what you have to do. speaker-3: And we'll speaker-1: It was that meme in room 1. speaker-3: Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Bobby, for coming out. Yeah, it was Phil. The bartender did not care. There was no sound guy. We actually had to do sound ourselves. And then while we were playing, two random people came off the street and were playing billiards in the back. ⁓ And those people, they were like, hey, you guys are great. And, you know, continued playing billiards. But it was just like, all right, well, Montreal, huh? This is it. Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah, and it was our first time there. But yeah, it was just like, was funny because, you know, we had played like a bunch of really great shows leading up to that point. but it was just, you know, it gives you it gives you a little umph, you know, sometimes to see one person that's like really engaged and you're like, All right, dude, you know what? This one's for you. speaker-0: I lastly, I think the fifth kind of, you know, secret to success that, a lot of people and this is the one that is really going to piss off most people because it's be persistent and be patient. And people do not like to be either of those things. They want everything to happen to them fast. They want it to happen now. They want to have it happen already. They want to have already been successful because they are just that good. Right? ⁓ You know, no band has really become an overnight success story. And I always tell this joke of a story where even Nickelback had to play those terrible songs that they made in their garage for years before anybody else ever got to hear them. Right? Like those bands didn't just show up and then become hit radio bands. They actually practice those songs for years and years and years, then put them on an album and then toured that for a year or more and then kind of became big, right? So it's those that kind of don't quit usually end up being successful to some degree because they keep at it. Like if you don't ever quit, you should be able to be successful at pretty much anything you put your mind to. But obviously Crimson Riot, you guys have been doing this since 2017 or 18, somewhere in there, like I said, and you've had some cool success over the years. So what would you say to somebody who's in a budding band looking to make something happen for themselves? speaker-3: You're absolutely right. mean, let's take a look at Green Day had three albums before Dookie. The Barenake Ladies had four albums before Stunt. ⁓ Alkaline Trio had three albums before From Here to Infirmary. You can't just say, ⁓ your first album is going to be a smash hit. The only time you see that is if it's manufactured by a record label. If a record label is putting these people together. Yeah. speaker-1: You're ruining people's career here, Chris. speaker-3: ⁓ no. Yeah, but look at look at all those people that ⁓ it goes back to what we said earlier, those bands that were manufactured, where are they now? They're they're burned out. They're exhausted. They're they're not doing it anymore because they had no control over anything. One hit wonders is a speaker-0: term you hear often with those kinds of acts and stuff like that, too. So yeah. speaker-3: No, it's, it's, yeah, you just, have to, you have to hone your art for one. No one's going to be a hit maker on your first album. And, and the bands that you think, ⁓ well this band got hit big off their first album, wasn't their first album, probably wasn't their first band. speaker-2: There's a lot of things that you have to do in order to build up something like this. mean, you know, we're moderately successful. would say, you know, we're still doing it and we're still putting out albums. People are still coming to shows and we're still, you know, able to draw in, you know, other, other areas and stuff like that, which is, is great. And, but it, you know, especially nowadays it's very hard because It's not just bands that are seeking instant gratification. It's also audiences. And it's kind of hard sometimes to get people to come to shows. Like it's really difficult to be like, hey, it's worth getting dressed and not binge watching a show on Netflix and driving across town and possibly paying for parking and possibly paying for beer and you know, kind of thing. So it, you know, it is difficult and it takes time. It takes a lot of time. You know, it's we... You know, we still, after eight years, majority of our tours are just us. Like, you know, people say, oh, who are you going out with? Nobody. You know, because that's a whole different part of the industry that is very, you know, particular. And it's like, well, you haven't played these markets, so we can't book you because, you know, you need like X amount of following and you've only played there once. So it can't really justify putting you on a package because, know, dah, dah, dah, dah. So that's another. So. What do we do? Okay, well, we're missing this market. So let's go there, you know, three times this year. And those are, those are things kind of coming back around to the business side that you have to think about. You have to make those efforts in order for you to be successful. Because once you build up those markets, then it's like, okay, cool. Now I can comfortably say we can bring 50 people to a show in wherever. And that's what, you know, those agencies want to hear. They want to hear that you can sell 50 tickets to a show. And that's just part of the game. That's the part of the whole deal. And so if you're not willing to do the work, especially now, it is expensive. You are going to lose money. But you have to keep doing it. If you're in it and you want to do it, you have to keep doing it no matter what. There's definitely been times where we play a city we've been to multiple times and none of our friends show up. They all have whatever thing they have to do and stuff like that. And it's hard. It's hard to like pick yourself back up and go, okay, no, this is worth it. But we just, love playing. We love touring. We love writing these songs. We love releasing records. People ask us all the time, why don't you guys ever release like EPs or like four song things? And it's like, we've always been an album band. We've always really enjoyed writing like a collection of songs to give to people. But all of that's tough. It's tough to kind of keep going, especially when you feel like there are times where you let the inner critic go, does anybody really give a shit? But if you still give a shit and you still want to do it, then it's worth doing. Absolutely. speaker-0: Yeah, and I just want to be clear when when you're saying a guarantee of 50, you know people to come and sell tickets and 50 like for for non inside rock music industries and people who are casual fans, they think like if you can't get 50 people to a show, why the fuck are you even going there? Like trust me, you have no idea how hard it is as an independent DIY or local band, whatever you want to call it to get 50 people guaranteed to a show like that is actually quite difficult. Like even like some of these, you know, 90s big names, you know, they might have a, 3000 person room or 600 person room or whatever the size is. They might struggle to get 50 to 100 pre sold tickets like legitimately, especially in Vegas. That's why bands do not like to come here because they're like, it's risky because they have to pay to basically be wherever they're playing and they have to guarantee a certain amount and nobody here buys tickets pre sell because they're fucking like, I don't know what I'm to be doing on Friday, like three months from now. So then they wait. they wait and they wait in the way and then they show up or you know the show gets canceled because no one fucking bought any pre-sale tickets so it is quite difficult to actually get these numbers and these pre-sale tickets going and it's very scary to be in independent band because there well there's kind of two things about it it's scary to do it because you know you're probably gonna lose money but it's also not scary because you fucking you know you're probably gonna lose money so might as well fucking do it anyway right speaker-2: Exactly. and with the, you know, kind of touching on the venue thing, it's really tough to be a touring band. you know, thankfully a lot ⁓ of our shows are like door deal or bar split or like whatever, you know, kind of thing. But on the occasions where we actually have a ticketed show, there was one, for example, that almost got canceled because they messaged us and they're like, hey, tickets aren't selling, they're not super expensive, we don't understand what's going on here, we might have to cancel the show. So I went on the website and I put tickets in the cart and realized that it was like $1.75 more because of fees to pre-sale than just to show up to the door. So I had to like tell the venue, like you do realize that pre-sale is more expensive than actually just showing up to the door because of fees, right? They're like, ⁓ okay, we'll fix that, sorry. And I'm like, no, that's okay. But like, please don't cancel our show because it's actually not our fault. People are trying to save money. speaker-3: Yeah, they were like, it's $15 tickets pre sale, but you got to go through the website and it came up to like $22 and some change. And it's like day of show $20 at the door and it's like, what do you, what do you do with smack? People, people are not dumb. speaker-2: It's like crazy, it's a bit of like, okay. speaker-0: Yeah, the ticketing and the venues and all that stuff. Live Nations, Tickmaster, and then even the smaller ticketing fees. That's a story for another episode, and I could talk about that. I probably will talk about it at some point this year because it is a giant fucking scam that everybody pretty much needs to be able to shut down at some point because it's absolutely absurd what's going on with, speaker-2: We always we always try to push that at our shows Chris has this kind of spiel that he does that you know Going going to a local show and paying ten dollars at the door means no fees and you're not paying four hundred dollars a ticket to sit in the nosebleeds like so, know support your local scene because it's cheaper and you know, you can actually like have a chance to meet the band and talk to these people and you know Build these kind of relationships and stuff like that instead of just watching somebody with binoculars and going, oh man, that was a cool $400 experience, I guess. speaker-1: Yep. speaker-0: And you can have 20 to 30 experiences like that in the course of a year instead of going to one $400 show, which is crazy. speaker-2: Exactly. speaker-3: And, and I don't want to say that we can ever do this and we're, ever going to be that big or anything like that. But the one thing that we are going to pride ourselves on is if we ever got to a green day level, let's say we be, we blow up the new album blows up and we become green day. I think we will look at what the Savannah bananas do and say no ticket over $40. And, because when you're pricing people out of concerts because your own ego, it's like, yeah, it's, it's expensive, but if you're in it, if you're in music to get rich, it's like, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. You're supposed to be sharing your art with people. Yeah. And, and just $40 should be enough for a ticket and, everybody should be able to, you know, afford a concert. speaker-2: you speaker-3: And I just don't get this. mean, I was going to concerts. Like I said, I saw Real Big Fish with Sum 41 opening up for them and it was a $5 ticket. The last Sum 41 show that they played, the tickets were going for $125 and I'm like, for what? Like you guys made your millions already. Why are you trying to make millions more? Like, what are you doing? speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. speaker-3: Yeah speaker-2: That just you factor in like how much of that actually goes to these bands anymore. speaker-3: Yeah, that's true. speaker-2: That $125, I mean, they're probably making, I don't know, 18 bucks a ticket. Like, I mean, it's outrageous how just absolutely double-dippy and just like highway robbery that the big concert industry has become. it's, and you know, going back to what you said, that's why a lot of bands don't come here. You know, it's like Bruce Springsteen won't play here because he's like, I'm not. I'm not asking my fans to pay $280 a ticket before fees. I'm not doing that. speaker-0: And then two. speaker-3: But you know, was a band recently that did this whole breakdown of what what you get with their $50 ticket, like the price breakdown. And I started laughing because it's a pretty big band and every show on their tour were were 2k cap rooms, 2000 cap rooms. So pretty decent sized rooms. I mean, that's bigger than the House of Blues here. And they sold out every single night. speaker-2: awful. speaker-3: Yeah, it's about Brooklyn Bowl. And so they were like, yeah, we sell out every night. But you know, with the $50 tickets, we're paying this, this and this. So each member of the band is walking away with 10 or it was $12 and 50 cents a ticket. And I'm like, times that by 2000. Each member is still making a ton of money. And you're like, it's just not worth it anymore. And I'm like, you know how much I get paid off of a $10 show? I get a dollar, I get two dollars. Like I gotta hope I can put gas in the RV. Trust me, if I can make $10, I'd be happy. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: It's definitely a perspective of, you know, what it used to be versus what it is now though, too, right? Because like back in, you know, let's say 2003, probably one of the last years where rock bands were like massively successful without being on a festival or something like that. You know, you could charge 50 bucks back then, but the venues were charging way less because it wasn't a monopoly. The ticketing system wasn't all monopoly. And even back in the 90s, Pearl Jam fought against Ticketmaster for some of the reasons that we're talking about today, but it wasn't, you know, merged with Live Nation. And so back then that that band might have made $25 on 50 bucks instead of 10. But either way, like you're still going to make a decent amount of money, you know, when you have 2000 people in there and it's probably going to sell out. So, yeah, I can't ⁓ can't really, you know, you feel bad for the way the industry is gone, but you can't feel bad for the people complaining about, you know, a lot of money either. So it's like, yeah, you don't make as much as used to, but you're still making a good living. Like you need to take three K home for a single night. Like that's still OK. Like You'll be fine. Like that's a lot of people don't make that. speaker-2: Yeah, exactly. speaker-3: Dude, there's an article right now that I read the first line of it and I was like, I'm out, but it's ⁓ Shadows talking about how it's hard to tour now. And I'm like, dude, I don't want to hear it. I do not want to hear your opinion on this matter. I'm like, until you get back into a van and start slugging your own gear, I don't want to hear you talk about how hard it is to tour nowadays. speaker-1: All right, well. speaker-0: That's all the questions and all the kind of, you know, topics I want to talk about with you guys, but I appreciate you so much for being here. You know, I want everybody to go check out Crimson Riot on streaming. Make sure to check out the album. Go buy it. Obviously, I've got my copy coming in the mail or maybe in person. We'll see how that works out. But I definitely pre-ordered already. I want to thank you guys so much for spending some time with me today and talking about all this stuff. Do you guys have anything, you know, on your mind that you want to say as a final thought? Obviously, promote. Give all the shout outs, the plugins, plugins, all that stuff, and I'll just let you guys have the floor. speaker-2: Yeah, no, thank you so much for having us. We really appreciate ⁓ talking with you. know, we've we've known each other for a while, so it's cool to like, actually sit down and talk, you know, outside of a noisy venue. So thank you so much for having us here. Yeah, just just follow us on on all the, you know, social medias and, you know, if you stream music, ⁓ cool. We're on pretty much everything. ⁓ It's kind of a necessary evil, the streaming thing these days. But if that's the way you listen to music, we really appreciate you adding us to your playlist and stuff like that. And yeah, March 20th, third time the charm comes out and we can't wait for everybody to hear it. We're super excited and just thank you everybody who's still with us after eight years and to anybody new, welcome aboard. speaker-3: ⁓ Yeah, check out our music videos and speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-3: That'd be great. So then we can complain about how we're not making money on our tour. Like I said, if I make $10, I'll be happy. ⁓ I do have one final thing and this is kind of some advice that anybody that's watching this that's new to the music industry or is thinking about starting a band. And this is something that literally just came to realization not too long ago for our band. And it's that old And Socrates, you know, ⁓ the more you know, the less you know. And, and we've, we've had to kind of step back and go, yeah, we've been doing this a long time, but we still don't know certain things. And don't be afraid to ask advice to veterans of the industry. And you know, don't be afraid to ask anybody because they may know something that you didn't think of. And a lot of veterans of music industry will be glad to share advice with you. And that's what we had to do. We were like, look, we've been doing this for so long. What, how do we get to the next step? And the things that we thought we knew, we didn't know. We were just like, oh, we could have done that already. But so that's my advice is don't think you know everything. speaker-0: I want to thank you guys so much for being on the show Again, make sure to go check out the new album third times a charm coming out on March 20th The links will be in the show notes. So go check that out. And obviously, you know, that's the show for today I hope you guys enjoyed this episode if you learned anything or liked what you heard on the show Make sure to go share like subscribe do all that shit for YouTube because otherwise Nobody's going to figure out who Crimson Riot are and share the show. Obviously, everybody knows who Crimson Riot are. They're huge. They're the biggest band on the planet. They will be anyway very soon. And guys, make sure to go to live shows. Check out people. Go to independent shows. Check out your local bands. I always look at it it's not the ⁓ I have to go see this. ⁓ like, man, I got to get up and go do this. You get to go see live bands for cheap. At a bar you get to drink beer you get to have pizza or wings like don't take that shit for granted like that is too good to like pass up like if I could do that every single night and I didn't have a five-year-old I absolutely would so do it for me if nobody else and do it for the bands and do it for the you know bartenders go out and support your local bands and we'll see you for the next time on the Powered by Rock podcast until then rock on the show for today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you learned anything or like what you heard on the show today, please show us some support and subscribe to this channel and like, comment and share this video with a friend or put it up on social media. I hate to keep asking, but without those small actions, the YouTube bots pretty much ignore this channel. Putting these videos out is a lot of work. If you want to show your appreciation, please consider purchasing some of our musical accessories or merch from our store at poweredbyrock.com. You can read our blog and follow us in the links below as well. Those are the plugs. And that's all I have. I'll see you soon for the next episode. Until then, rock on.