speaker-0: Welcome in to rounding the bases.

speaker-1: Around the best, everybody knows Joe Goldberg. It's around the best, everybody knows Joe Goldberg.

speaker-0: Bye. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Rounding the Bases presented by Community America Credit Union Invested E &U. Shout out to my friends at Chief of Staff Kansas City making connections that matter and I love everybody over there. If you're looking for a job, looking to hire someone, looking for resource, I highly recommend you check them out. They're just great people that care. Chiefofstaffkc.com making connections that matter. My connection today comes from the one and only, great Michael Mackey who I was joking with my guest Michael Shadou. be on the payroll now. If you're listening, Michael, I'm not offering. Okay, so just back off. But Michael is always throwing me the best guests. Maybe it's repayment for having him on. That's not it. We're just good buddies and he knows great people and that'll be the same for my guest today. As we start to wrap up Women's History Month, we've really highlighted some amazing women and I've got another incredible woman for you today with just a truly awesome story. There are stories you tell and then there are stories you feel. Today we're stepping into the bold, brilliant world of Clarissa Knight and the visionary CEO of RISC's artistic design whose wearable art accessorizes and empowers with risk-taking designs that spark a conversation every time they're worn. But beyond the accolades of fashion runways, art museums, and movie screens, hers is a story of healing. Because for Clarissa, art isn't just a career, it's an essential part of who she is. Paving the way for limitless vision to come to life and saving her own along the way. I am so excited right now to be joined by Clarissa, our mutual friend of Michael Mackey, I know never leads me in the wrong direction. How are you?

speaker-1: I'm very well, Joel. How are you?

speaker-0: I'm good, you're already the best dressed guest that I've had on here, which I would expect nothing less. You're the first guest that has come on here that might have wearing some of what she made, she might've actually made actually herself, which is so cool. But that's my way of saying complete admiration for what you're doing and we'll get into your story. But what's going on in your world nowadays?

speaker-1: ⁓ my gosh, so many things I am trying to always create. You know, I'm creating something new and fun and envisioning something different. So that's what's going on with me. I'm just trying to find new things, new things, new ⁓ materials to inspire people right now.

speaker-0: Let's talk about that. I will be, and I told you before we came on, I am not a fashion guy, although I always wanna try to look good, if that makes sense, meaning that there are days I leave the house, my wife is like, uh-uh, that's just a bad idea. And there are other days where I get the nod of approval, but I do think about it. But it's one thing to wanna look good, it's another thing to help people feel good, to be able to create. And then to be able to see your vision, your creation. turn into certain feelings and I'm wondering how much that's a part of. want to call the crux of what you do, but I don't think that many of us think about who makes what we wear oftentimes because it might not be a single person but. don't know I mean I don't think about the designer anything like that, but I know that the designer oftentimes I feel good about what I'm wearing how much. Pride goes into that for you.

speaker-1: No, just recently I was at an event and I ran into probably, I don't know, no less than 15 people wearing my work. And I felt like a movie star. I felt like, you know, they're wearing my work and every single piece was different. And I thought then, you know, God, you have really blessed me to create one of a kind pieces that not only lift me up when I'm making them, but the specific perfect person picks it out to wear it. And it brings out something else in them as well. And so when I see the breadth of my work together in a room, sometimes I'm taking a back up. I, I did the damn thing. I did that. I did that.

speaker-0: mean, just today I'm looking at you and you've got just such cool jewelry on. I assume it's all your designs, right? What is that? looks like, first off, looks like something that I've never seen before. Well, I mean, it isn't, right? But I mean, like, it looks like something so truly unique.

speaker-1: It is. Yeah, this piece that I'm wearing right now is ⁓ copper and brass and nickel alloy and it has ox bone in it. So what I do is depends on what I'm wanting to wear. Like I made this specifically for today because I wanted to wear a sweatshirt, but I wanted to wear it and dress it up. it's just a matter of conversations. All of my pieces I say bring the conversation. My work brings conversation to you. So like I'm an introvert. And because I'm an introvert, there's lots of us like that out there. And I don't want to walk up to people and talk to them. I want people to come over to me. And if we come over to me and talk to me about what I'm wearing, that gives me an opportunity to say, I'm the designer and talk more in that regard.

speaker-0: Yeah, because I always say, I I speak about trust and building strong teams relationships that when you're trying to build trust with someone, find some kind of commonality. And by the way, it doesn't even have to be an interest of yours. It should be an interest of theirs. So I may not know a lot about jewelry and fashion, but if I walk up to you and I say, wow, Clarissa, that is unbelievable. That's suddenly I'm guessing as an introvert gives you the green light to be able to step out. and to be comfortable in your lane. that correct?

speaker-1: That's correct. That's correct. It helps me to talk about my work in a different way and also talk to them about, you know, what is it about it that you that you like? Talk to me about that. And what do you normally wear? What do you normally do? And sometimes I hear people say, I'm not a big jewelry wearer. I'm not a big sculpture jewelry wear. And why is that? It could be because of their size or their personality. but I often challenge people, just give me one chance, just one chance, just come to my studio and let's try some things on and let's play and let's see how you feel. And more than likely, they feel different about it from what they came in.

speaker-0: How does that make you feel when you give them, sell them whatever it is, that they have this something they want or maybe they don't know they want and they end up with it? What does that do for you?

speaker-1: Well, it keeps me going. It keeps me going creatively because sometimes I create pieces and I'm not real sure about them or I create pieces, large sculptural pieces just for me. And then somebody comes in and they say, I, I want to wear that. I want to wear it to a gala. And I'm thinking, why, why do you, why do you want that? What's striking you about that? So it tells me. to keep going with what I love. Continue with what I love and how I feel. And now everything that I create, I love it. I love every single thing that I create.

speaker-0: So let's go back a little bit because I love asking all my guests this question if they have gone a different route. And almost everybody that I have on this show ended up somewhere different than they started. And in my case, I always like to say, well, I knew I wanted to be on TV from a young age because I love to talk and I love to talk about sports. But I couldn't have envisioned it would end up with this. I certainly could not have envisioned beyond baseball and TV that I'd be speaking in. have a podcast because podcasts didn't even exist back then. But I guess my question for you and like so many guests that that end up going a different route at some point. How does one go from 19 years at Blue Cross Blue Shield to this?

speaker-1: And even Blue Cross Blue Shield was not where I wanted to be. I wanted to be an architect. I love architecture. So that's where I wanted to be. But for Blue Cross, unfortunately, my job was outsourced. as you know, I'm 57. So in our generation, things happen and they outsource positions and mine was outsourced and impacted by eight other. employees were impacted. But I had already been creating jewelry beforehand. And I knew that when I retired, I wanted to go into ⁓ jewelry full time. So that was my little extra push. But even how I ended up in at Blue Cross, I dealt with numbers all day. That was my thing with the numbers. And so I'm a right brain left brain thinker. I can do the analytics and I can do the creativity. But when that happened, after those 19 years, knew that ⁓ from therapy, because I battle with, you probably read some of my story about depression and eating disorder. with that, ⁓ when that happened, I decided, you know, this is the time to jump into it full time. I started making the jewelry for healing and while I was at Blue Cross. And so with ⁓ the healing and the next step of my journey, it was just the perfect timing.

speaker-0: You know, as I was reading about you and looking at videos and all the stuff that's out there and even featured on the local news and other places, there are a couple things that really resonated with me in, I think, just a personal way, I guess. One was the timeline, only in the sense that so much of your life changed back in 2007, I believe, and we're talking 19 years. The timeline is relevant just personally to me because I moved here in 2008. And so I have a very strong sense of what 19 years is. It's been 18 years since we moved here, meaning that I uprooted my family at the time, two young kids, and came here and started a new TV job with the Royals. so the years blend together for most of us, right? We get into our, you said your age first, but we're both in our 50s. So, ⁓ you know. The further along we get, you start to forget some things and all that. But I just, have a very vivid memory of that time. So my point is, is that I can relate to how long it's been since your life transformed. ⁓ Since everything changed. The second piece is like anyone else. You know, my family has dealt with mental health just like most have. I know this much and here's some of the relevance that we weren't talking about mental health in 2007. And now, and I'm not sure about those of us in our 50s, but I could tell you that with kids in their 20s, and that sounds crazy to say, because they were two and five when we moved here, but they talk about it with their friends like it's just part of life. I'm not saying they're taking it lightly. I'd say the opposite, that they have a better grasp of it than most of us adults do. You went through it all. I sit there and I, before you start talking about it, I want to commend you for being willing to talk to people about it because I think that the more people that have been through it, whether it be themselves or with their family, and by the way, when you go through it with your family, you're going through it too, that the more we talk about it, I know we hear removing the stigma lot, but the more we talk about it, the more comfortable we get in understanding this is a very real thing. We would talk about other diseases ⁓ and we've always felt like we can't touch this one. And I feel like we're getting more comfortable talking about it. So I'd love to hear a little bit more of whatever you're willing to talk about about your journey and what jewelry and this business and this passion has done for you. Because I see that the way you radiate when you start talking about your jewelry and your passion and your love of it, just the way you talked about somebody coming up to you. And I'm wondering what Clarissa in 2026 is like versus say 2007 or before.

speaker-1: Absolutely. That's a thank you so much for your thank you. kind, kind words. ⁓ Depression is near and dear to my heart for a number of reasons and because and I apologize for not looking you eye to eye when I say some of these things because it's still hard. It's still hard to ⁓ to talk about, but I know that I have to. because I'm still alive because of the jewelry and having an opportunity. And I won't even say jewelry. Let me just say being creative, whatever your creative outlet is to do that. And from therapy, jewelry is what came out for me. But it's important because I get an opportunity now to talk about something that My parents had no idea of what was going on with me. You know, who's 10 years old and banging their head against the wall and getting knots on their head intentionally so that I can have something physical to touch and to see that because you can't see, sometimes you can't see a mental illness. You can't see those things maybe through someone's actions or reactions. But if I bang my head on the wall or if I hit myself, you know, with a bat in the knees, then I'm going to get a bruise. I'm going to get a bump. I can, it's something that I can feel and I'm not crazy. ⁓ but it's taken me a long time to get to the point to share my story and how I go up and down. and let people in. I have an ice list and that's in case of emergency that when I know that I'm in trouble or I'm heading toward a ⁓ bad dark place, I call it a quiet place. When I'm heading toward that quiet place that I can reach out and say, I need you. And those people, ⁓ somebody is on that list is there. But I've been able to do that because I want help. I need help. And when you look at me, you would never think that I battle with depression. appear as a strong, bald, black woman. But that's not always the case. Sometimes when I'm dealing with when I'm dealing with a quiet space, those that are around me and say, Hey, Clarissa, you've been in your house rearranging furniture too many days, or you haven't mentioned that you went out for a walk or you haven't mentioned what you've eaten today. Those are telltale signs that I'm starting to slip into a quiet space. So everybody, ⁓ everyone that deals with ⁓ a mental issue. they have their own routines. And it's a matter of have they recognized their routines yet. I've been living with this for a long time. So I do recognize mine and I can share it with other people and I can share it with family members and say, Hey, this is how I, what it looks like in me. If you're suspecting that with your loved one, you might just look at what I've just said about me and see if that resonates. to start picking up patterns because there is a pattern whether you see it or not.

speaker-0: have to think that because I'm guessing you never saw that pattern before. No, right. I mean, that's why you needed to feel something because you couldn't feel or see any of it. How I don't know if this is the right word. How freeing was it once you got like like having that ice list you talked about makes so much sense, but not if you don't know to use it right now. If like you can you now know If you didn't know then or even if you did know then that that there are a million people I know I'm exaggerating a number but there are a million people that care about you but if you can't see that in the moment that how are gonna call them and I'm just curious how how freeing or liberating it was Still and I want to be very Deliberate about how I say this because you alluded to it and you could of course push back I don't want to put any words in your mouth, but that you're still deal and battle

speaker-1: ⁓ yeah!

speaker-0: And you may, just think it's important because, you know, we sometimes assume once you're fixed at whatever it is, right? I've been sick, now I'm better. And it doesn't go away, but hopefully over time you learn enough resources personally, because it has to start with you. And so that's what I'm curious is at what point did you realize, wait a minute, I do have some solutions here and how freeing was that to understand that you did have some options.

speaker-1: ⁓ It was the second time that I tried to commit suicide and it didn't work obviously. Thank God. ⁓ Realized through counseling, I needed something and I needed someone and I needed to, for me, say, it is okay. You're not broken. I always thought I was broken. I thought I was by myself and you know, take medication, people take medication because of heart conditions and diabetes and all these things. And I'm like, I'm taking medication for depression. I feel great. Guess what? I'm going to go off my medicine. And that's the worst thing for someone to do is to go off those meds. But I want to realize that that second time you have something to live for there. You have a voice that's strong. Your story, your journey is still being created. You don't know where it's going to go. Stay here. stay here and do what you need to do. So me doing what I needed to do was look at all the relationships in my life and figure out those that were most important to me, those that I know for sure without a shadow of a doubt that I could call and say, Or just call, because sometimes when I call, it is immediately in my voice that they hear that something's not right. And they say, know, Clarissa, ⁓ if you're not at my house in 10 minutes, because I have someone that's very close to me within like five minutes of me, if you're not at my house in five minutes, I will be at your house. And that's friendship and that's love. And that is. Those are the people that I surround myself with now. Though my list is still very tight and small, the ICE list, but everyone, all my jewelry clients, everybody in my family, they know that I battle.

speaker-0: You know. One, I want to thank you and commend you again. ⁓ And I hope you know that I don't bring any of this up if you're not comfortable with it. Well, hold on, let me back up on that. I'm not saying you're comfortable with it. I don't bring this up if you're not willing. And I know that you have spoken a lot about this. And I think you know. And we're basically just meeting each other, a couple of email exchanges and all that. But I think you know, and it's probably why you're doing it. not this interview, but talking about this, that you have a chance to save lives. You have a chance to make a difference because if this badass designer who has this incredible vision that makes people happy. battles. It could be any of us right and fill in the blank for anyone that has had success at some point at some level right like we make this assumption because we put people on pedestals whether it be athletes or movie stars or shoot even the local TV guy like people make us out to be bigger than we are without the assumption first that my line is always this. And if I don't swear a lot on the show, I might swear a lot off of it. But if if Ashley's got to or not actually, if you have Colleen's got to to click the the the explicit lyrics, that's fine. But I always just say, like, everybody has some everybody has shit that they're going on that's going on. And for the most part, they're not advertising it. So, like, for me, I just start there. I don't know what it is. just know it's something. might be them. It might be their kid. It might be a spouse. It might be a sick parent. might be a what you know, bills overdue or whatever it is. Everybody even who we perceive as as they've got it all figured out. Nobody has it all figured out. And so I wonder what it has done for you as uncomfortable as I assume it is to be able to maybe they can impact in someone's life. And I'm sure this is different than the feeling you get when you see them wearing your jewelry. But to me, at least on the outside looking in, it's gotta be equally powerful, I don't know.

speaker-1: Yeah, so ⁓ sometimes I talk with eighth grade girls. And ⁓ if I we talk and I'm very open, I share my story very openly with them. And of course, I tell them, you know, talk to a counselor or your parent or someone more about this. But a lot of times we talk in small groups and every single time one or two come back to me and close my studio door and say, Ms. Clarissa, they just start talking. And I hold my arms out and they fall in my arms. And if I had had that at 13 years old, my granddaughter is 13 and she's confident and she's strong and her parents talk to her about any and everything. And if I had had that, I think about how my life would have been different. back then. But then I also say, you know what, it's okay that it wasn't that you didn't have that because you have it now. Yeah. And you're able to share with the young people. Now you're able to share openly with men. Now. ⁓ I did a collaboration a few years ago with a gentleman, Rodrigo Alvarez, and our, our, ⁓ peace was all about care. And it was specifically to men of color that battle with mental illness. And my son was there. ⁓ he's a fireman here in Kansas city, a fire captain. And he said, you know, mom, when I leave or to the group, said, when I leave and go to work every day, I tell my kids by, because I might not see them again. And that's something so hard to deal with. And we've heard of that with police officers, but we've never heard about that with firemen. We've never heard that about just people in general having to think about these things and how it can cause anxiety. can cause depression. It can cause your heart to wait down. But when I can go into different spaces and talk to a different group of people and share my story authentically and my journey. And as I tell people, don't be sad for me. Don't be sad for me because I'm not sad for myself. don't sometimes people are, ⁓ I'm so sorry that happened to you. No, it's my story. It's my story. And we have to, I believe that I am here now because I have a story to tell. sometimes I feel like Clarissa, you talk about depression so much. Why are you still talking about that? And it's because I have to, because you never know who knows someone that knows someone that's struggling or saying that. I just said a moment ago, I felt really good and I stopped taking my medicine and then I crashed and then it took me a while to get back on track.

speaker-0: Yeah. They say you never know who knows, but what you do know is you know someone. You know someone you just do.

speaker-1: We're human. We're human. We're human and we're in the flesh and we're dealing with something. And unfortunately, but fortunately, you know, the way society is moving so fast, you didn't envision yourself being on a podcast. Back in the day, who envisioned AI talking to us the way it's talking to us now.

speaker-0: Look, if we go back and do this again the next time, it might be the Joel bot and the Clarissa bot. So it might not even be us. I don't know. I don't know where it's all going other than the world's moving fast. And you you talk about your 13 year old granddaughter. These kids are dealing with more than we ever dealt with. And I know that you dealt with so much, but you know, could you imagine young Clarissa having also had to deal with the social media and the instant gratification? I mean, these kids are set up for failure. And that's why we're seeing so many. And so that's why to me, the voice that you're lending, not just for kids, for adults too, and for women and for men and for people in the black community, for everyone. I mean, you talk about your son, a firefighter is supposed to be tough. They couldn't possibly go through that. And I think you can correct me if I'm wrong, it's typically not something that a black man would talk about. By the way, a lot of white... Men would not either, but I just I feel like there's even more of a stigma. I don't know why in the black community like you can't talk about that.

speaker-1: Yeah, and it's it's lifting. That's the beautiful thing about that's one thing that came out with COVID. I will say is that the focus and people realizing that isolation and the depression. It was always there. It was just amplified and now we have an opportunity to speak that truth and we can talk about it. I also have a 12 year old grandson. Polar opposites the children. same parents but they're opposites. But you see these things and you want them to grow up being able to express their emotions, express how they feel and not be pushed down. ⁓ It is, I think now we are still working through the stigmatism of mental health. And as long as everyone regardless of your gender and color and culture, as long as everyone starts speaking more openly about it, is you find that you're not isolated. You're not by yourself. There's somebody else dealing with it and maybe have dealt with it in worse ways than you have.

speaker-0: Yeah, and that's that and that also could be a trap to write the comparison game. Well, it's not this, but but I still always go back to someone's dealing with something and and just start with that as the beginning conversation or at least thought process. I want to shift gears. We could certainly talk about. This topic all day and it won't it wouldn't be enough, but I really hope that everybody listening right now, if you're going through something, I hope you take some comfort. in clear as this message, or that maybe you learn a little something, you know, maybe if it's you or it's a loved one or a friend that you start a nice list that you that you start taking some steps to help that person or yourself feel more comfortable and to feel loved because it's out there. And I know that it can be hard to know it's out there when you're deep in the middle of it, whether that be as the person or their loved one. So that if nothing else comes of this podcast today. than that, it's a win. But as much as I may not know a whole lot about jewelry, although I do have a pretty nice fat Royals championship ring that always opens eyes wherever I go. But otherwise, that's it. That's it for me. But before I get into my baseball theme questions, I just want to let everybody know, check out the credible designs and some of Clarissa's work, RissaArtisticDesign.com. and we'll have that in the show notes as well. It's spectacular, spectacular stuff. Let's ask the biggest home run that you've hit professionally, what has it been?

speaker-1: The biggest home run I would say is I have been able to do what I love full time for the last eight years. Never expected that to happen. ⁓ Again, the life changes that occurred pushed me into it a little bit earlier. I was 49 when ⁓ I started doing my jewelry full time and I'm single. So

speaker-0: Do it.

speaker-1: Well, this is it, you know, this is how I earn my income. It's my jewelry.

speaker-0: I love it. Swing and miss along the way. And what did you learn from it?

speaker-1: So this question, I thought about this for several days.

speaker-0: Hmm. Sorry to make you think so hard.

speaker-1: did you make me think really hard because I don't really have swing and misses. And the reason I say that is because everything that I do is very much I try to do things intentionally. Say for example, I'm creating with deer antler. So it's intentional that I'm creating with deer antler. And where it goes is where it goes. Tree branches, same way. And because of My sister had given me some tree branches one time and told me, do something with these. And I did a little something. So I guess that would be a miss because she says, no, that that wasn't it. That wasn't it. That was really far off. Clarissa. So I did another piece and another piece. And then finally she says, says, this is it. And that piece came down the runway with West 18th Street Fashion Show in 2019. And that's how I landed the ceiling piece at the Museum of Kansas City. So, swinging a miss, everything. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

speaker-0: led to a home run. All right, how about small ball? What are the little things that lead to big results for you?

speaker-1: You know, the little things I would say right now where I'm at is just showing up. Showing up for me when I show up for me. That means I'm showing up for you and everybody else in my life and I'm showing up for my clients and yeah, it just it's a trickle effect trickle.

speaker-0: All right, I've got four final questions as we round the bases. The first one, what is being able to get dirty, so to speak, to be able to get your hands on all of this, to be able to create, what does that do for your mental health, your wellbeing, to get deep into the weeds into these passion projects?

speaker-1: So it challenges me. Most of all, it challenges me to step out of what I normally see with my own eyes and just let my mind, my mind and hands go. It saves my life every time I create, whether I'm creating at home or in my studio, ⁓ my outside the home studio. It saves my life every time.

speaker-0: All right, second question as we round the bases. This is, always, I always think this is like my favorite and least favorite question to ask people in your shoes, creators or people that have done a lot. You got a favorite piece? It's like asking somebody a favorite kid or favorite relative, but.

speaker-1: ⁓ my gosh. So do I have a favorite piece? I would say right now anything that I create with tree branches. Anything. Whether it's wall art or wearable, wearable art jewelry, which by the way, people do collect my work that don't wear jewelry. because they put it on, it's art. They put it on mannequins. ⁓ We've done forms, we've had forms sculptured. So yes, they like to look at it. So we figured out a place to put it in their home for them to look at it.

speaker-0: and they get equal enjoyment out of it. All right, third question as we round the bases, you've now seen your work featured in fashion shows. You mentioned the museum featured on the Peacock original show, Bel Air, and there comes a certain point or actually maybe not where it becomes normal, or as I said, maybe not. What have those experiences been like to see your work featured in these prominent places or on these,

speaker-1: Absolutely

speaker-0: Productions shows whatever it might be

speaker-1: Oh, super humbling. Yeah. Yeah, super humbling because it wasn't I don't I don't go some people look for the opportunities and they're chasing the opportunities. I don't chase the opportunities. So like Michael Mackey love him dearly. He interviewed me many years ago for something else. We became friends. He made the introduction introduction to you and here we are. So I'm not chasing it.

speaker-0: best way.

speaker-1: It's going to happen.

speaker-0: That's the best way. That's an abundance mindset, by the way. And that's a very healthy mindset as well, because it believes in yourself. It believes in, you know, we hear a lot of talk about believing in the universe. Things work out. They do. And you have to obviously give them the chance and put yourself there. Final question as we round the bases, I was reading this is a little similar to the last question. But again, I know you can't chase it, that your goal is to have your pieces displayed at the Met Gala, which you also. hope to attend. Again, this will happen when it's meant to happen, but what have you visualized with that?

speaker-1: Oh my gosh. So yeah, I, I, I just, I know that I'm 57 and by the exactly just getting started. So I feel like my life is going to be totally different from what it is. Um, I've always felt like 18, 18, 30 and 60 were my years and, or that

speaker-0: I'm just getting started by the way.

speaker-1: timespan and I'm a press I'm rounding as I'm rounding the base to 60. I gosh nothing nothing is going to be off limits but the Met Gala for some reason is really heavy on my heart and this year I'm going to an event in St. Louis it's a Met Gala watch party this past year I went to the to the Met to see the display that was there before it left and back in September. I can just see some of my sculptural wearable large art pieces on mannequins there in their museum and worn by whomever at the event. I don't know how it's gonna happen. It just will. It might happen. It just will. It just will. And I want to be alive. Let me let me preface this. I would love to be alive to see that.

speaker-0: Yeah, let's let her experience that and it will happen. I can't wait to see and hear about it happening. You deserve every bit of that. And in the meantime, I know that you're going to keep doing what you're doing and making an impact in so many different ways. so again, I want to remind everybody to check out the website, whoever you are, if you're listening or watching, just check it out and maybe you can start the conversation. Notice that Clarissa has not come on here selling anything. So this is the closest we'll probably get to it as me ⁓ Saying it Rissa artistic design dot-com more importantly if you need help get help surround yourself with people Be there for other people can't thank you enough for your vulnerability for your willingness to share your experiences and of course your passion nowadays as well. Clarissa, it's so good to be able to connect with you. So grateful to have you on the podcast and keep up the great work and all the impact that you're making.

speaker-1: Thank you, I appreciate that.

speaker-0: you