Kelly Yang: Hi, I'm Kelly Yang.

Kate: I'm Kate DiCamillo

Kelly Yang: Welcome to Story Kind. Hey Kate, how are you today? It's so good to see you and to listen to you. You know what? I'm so excited to tell you, because I know you'll be proud of me, that this week I finished filling out my entire notebook. Here's my notebook. And that means I get a new notebook. Yay!

Kate: Kelly, you know what I'm gonna say. It's so good to see you. Is it super, super exciting for you to get a new- Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly Yang: Oh, it's so fulfilling. It just feels so good. I don't know why. It's like, it brings me back to the kid me again, because that was all I had. I didn't have a computer. So when I finished filling out a notebook, meant I had tons and tons of, you know, stories and writing. And I was just so proud of myself.

Kate: Yeah, no, I'm at the end of one of my notebooks. So maybe by the next time we talk, I'll have gotten the end and be on my new one. And then we can talk about that. What else are you doing writing wise? HAHAHAHA- Well, I am still like doing my rewrite and this is like we could do all this is for an editor, ⁓

Kelly Yang: Have you had the same editor this entire time or?

Kate: had the same editor for almost 20 years. Her name is Andrea Tampa and she is a brilliant editor and a brilliant human being, just a wonderful person. there are when thinking I can't do that, you know, ⁓ when she's asking the questions or ⁓ times when I feel resentful what she's asking me to do. ⁓ And then I always end

Kelly Yang: Wow! Wow. You

Kate: thinking, okay, I can try it and see what happens and it always makes it better. So, yeah.

Kelly Yang: I was going to ask you, what do you think is the biggest quality, the main quality that it takes to be a good editor? What makes them a good editor?

Kate: You know, I think that there are two things. It'll be curious to see what you think. ⁓ is vision. And in that, it's just like, always feel like when I'm writing the story, I'm like down on the ground ⁓ in the trenches. ⁓ And good editor ⁓ can it from above, can see ⁓ what trying to do. ⁓ And the other thing is

Kelly Yang: You Bye Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Kate: You might have that knowledge as an editor, but then it's how do you communicate it? And it's not in telling somebody what to do, but rather it's in asking them questions that provoke, you know, ⁓ the step forward in telling the story. ⁓ And ⁓ so vision and ⁓ then you communicate that vision, I guess. What do you think?

Kelly Yang: I love that. I think I totally agree. think for me, ⁓ being really in touch with your gut reaction to a story and really being super sensitive to what moved you as a reader. ⁓ I find so helpful is being able to identify, okay, this whole although it was super entertaining. It doesn't really add to the story. Or here is a part where I want to find out more. And I know you have more to say about this, but you haven't really, really dug deep enough.

Kate: Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep. All of that is true. And it's funny because I never really understood what an editor did until I had one. I thought was more like, hey, know, dot that I across that T, ⁓ use a semicolon, not a colon, you know, that kind of thing. But it's an emotional journey that you're on with somebody.

Kelly Yang: Hehehehe Thank It is an emotional journey. Okay, now we're gonna switch gears. We have a hard question this week, and it is, how do you deal with negative feedback or disappointing feedback, some sort of negative review? I wanna hear what you think of this, so I'm gonna let you start.

Kate: Mmm. Well, I'll start by quoting Hemingway. If you believe them when ⁓ tell you you're good, you have to believe them when they tell you you're bad. So part of it, you know, like that goes to the reviews. It's just it's best not to invest too much emotion either way when they're telling you ⁓ you're good or they're telling you you're bad. ⁓

Kelly Yang: Wow. Mmm.

Kate: ⁓ and feedback, well, that gets us back to editors, know? So it's just like, I don't know about you, but before it gets to my editor, I just have friends who read for me. And if they say something ⁓ that is, you know, negative or this is not working, ⁓ if one of them says it, I kind of go, okay, that's what you think. But if two or three of them say it, then I know, okay, that's something that I'm gonna have to fix. But sometimes negative feedback that ⁓ doesn't with me and that nobody else says, and then I know that I can dismiss it. And It also goes to that thing that I've discovered, and maybe you have too, about being very careful about who ⁓ you let read your work in its early stages because can say things ⁓ can derail you and they can say the wrong thing at the wrong time. And so you have to be careful about who you show your work to so that when the negative comes, you know that it's coming from a place of trying to help you. ⁓ that's, that's. ⁓

Kelly Yang: Hmm Wow. Wow. I mean, first of all, just like the first thing you said, which is so profound. mean, guess Hemingway said it, but it was so profound, which is, you know, we have to kind of rise above the noise either way, but it's so hard, right? I mean, because as human beings, we are literally genetically programmed to care what other people think about us, especially something so personal like our stories.

Kate: Absolutely.

Kelly Yang: Was there a point where you personally realized that? mean, I know maybe we've heard this kind of advice, but when do we internalize it?

Kate: well, I, know, it's, ⁓ like everything else ⁓ like, ⁓ a process. can't, you know, it does it hurt if somebody says this is a bad book. Yep. It sure does. but ⁓ there is this of, ⁓ of letting other people tell you who you are in world, you know? And so, and it taps in.

Kelly Yang: Mm-hmm.

Kate: to that for me. is just like, would I, I've got a friend who sings ⁓ and her coach said to her, and I love this, ⁓ every time you out on stage, you have to give % of the audience the permission to dislike you. And so it's the same thing with the writing. ⁓ It's not gonna work for That's okay, ⁓ you know?

Kelly Yang: Yes. Yeah.

Kate: And it's like, did I do the best I could do? Did I communicate what was in my heart to the best of my ability? Yeah, okay. And then I don't know about you, but ⁓ also tend not to read as many reviews now because I know that it can kind of upset you one way the other, ⁓ or bad. The good ones are just as distracting. So, yeah.

Kelly Yang: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Mmm. That's ⁓ my god. That is so that is so amazing. you're absolutely right. And it's almost it is terrifying to read really any kind of review, ⁓ there are going to be things that people say, which it distracts and hurts, but also there are going to be things people say, are so amazing that you start wondering if you can ever do it again.

Kate: Yep, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah.

Kelly Yang: Right? And then the imposter syndrome sets in, which is even more terrifying sometimes than the bad reviews. Cause at least the bad reviews, you're like, all right, I messed up there, but I can get it back the next one. ⁓

Kate: Absolutely. Right? No. Yeah, no. And it's terrifying. And all of it is, I mean, and I'm sure Kelly, I have no doubt that you are the same as me. ⁓ The person in the front row in every classroom getting the A, right? And so it's just, this is not about, know, that part of me that wants always to succeed, I have to put it aside. That's not what this is about. There's something bigger afoot here, you know?

Kelly Yang: Mmm, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's, think the real journey that I've been sort of on since, really since after Front Desk came out, because it was such a huge success. ⁓ it's been, and I'm sure with you, right, your, one of your first books was Winn-Dixie. Was that your first book? Okay. So this is the kind of double-edged sword of having the instant success, right? ⁓ and you're always trying to...

Kate: That was the first, yeah. Mm-hmm. Right.

Kelly Yang: figure out how you can top it. And you're also trying to figure out at the same time how to keep going. And the part of keeping going is not about topping something. It is about figuring out the next story you want to tell because you want to tell it.

Kate: Right.

Kelly Yang: a story isn't necessarily for everyone and isn't going to reach everyone the way that you want it to reach them. But as long as it's for someone, that's all that matters.

Kate: All right, you are never ever gonna please everyone. And if you try to please everyone, you're not gonna write a story that matters. Full stop. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly Yang: Mmm. ⁓ my God. Love it. Love the big, big truth that we're.

Kate: Now we're going to do a fun question though. This is from to you. How did you get inspiration for Mrs. Welch, Mia's grade teacher?

Kelly Yang: ⁓ my gosh. So Mrs. Welch, actually speaking of bad reviews, Mrs. Welch was very negative towards Mia and her writing. She thought that Mia had already gotten way too big of a head as a writer. This is going into three keys. and she wanted to give Mia a little bite of the humble pie. ⁓ she was very critical. And I think Mia had a really hard time in her class. ⁓ you know what? I've had teachers like that ⁓ ⁓ I look back and I thank them because it did make me a stronger writer in the end. But I remember being frustrated in certain classes where I didn't exactly like what we're talking about. I didn't get that immediate gratification, that immediate attention. wasn't like, their eyes did not light up when I entered the room, you know? And I'm like, what is wrong? here. And I had to work for it was hard. And I remember looking back at those times in my life and you know, the ⁓ stories would come back and it wouldn't be an A and there would be tons of red marks everywhere. And your first reaction is just like, that's it. ⁓ life is over. It's time. ⁓ And in fact, it was a wonderful learning experience. And it did make me a better person, a better writer.

Kate: ⁓ I going to say, it's not just ⁓ that made you a better writer. It made you a better person, which is, also just a wonderful segue to, our part of the show here, ⁓

Kelly Yang: absolutely. Okay, so for this episode, I want to give a shout out to Miss Boyd. This recommendation comes from Sheila. So Sheila says, I would love to give a shout out to Miss Boyd, the librarian at Dumfries Elementary School in Virginia. She has been so kind with all my kiddos by recommending books and making them part of the community. Because of her care and interest, I now have a writer in my house. Sheila has a daughter who loves to write stories and she's already written quite a few books. Miss Boyd also loves to read my daughter's stories and provide feedback. Aw, this is so great. I'm so proud of, yeah. ⁓ Miss Boyd, thank you. I'm really excited that we have a new writer who is going to be sharing her story soon.

Kate: Nice. Mr. Ford, thank you. Yeah. and is gonna be telling the truth, about what's going on. You know, that's the thing. You got a writer in the family, it's like, uh-oh, somebody who's gonna write everything down. ⁓ Okay, I've got one from, this is Fai Yor I hope I said your name right. Would like to give a shout out to Ms. Parsons, their librarian, because instead of her answering our questions about the assignments, ⁓ She tells us to use our imagination. That's pretty great. That's like walking through big golden door, right?

Kelly Yang: Brilliant. I love that so much. ⁓ And if you would like to give a shout out to your favorite teacher, librarian, or if you have a fun question for us or a question about writing, please email me at kellyangauthor at gmail.com. Thank you so much, Kate.

Kate: I'll look forward to seeing you soon, okay? And all of you too. Yeah, all right. Bye, thank you.

Kelly Yang: Yes, yes, we look forward to it. Bye everyone.