Lisa Drennon: there's always this argument, this struggle around money. And when we think about when going through a divorce, you know, our lives are being torn apart, families are being torn apart. We're going through this transition period and no one goes into a marriage thinking, yeah, I'm gonna get divorced. mean, imagine if you did. But we go into a marriage thinking, I'm gonna make this work, know, till death do us part, we say our wedding vows. But then the relationship goes sour for whatever reason and it takes two to make that relationship work. And there's thousands of reasons why people get divorced. But when it ultimately comes to it, it's about trusting ourselves, taking care of ourselves. Joyce Ayers: you Lisa Drennon: trusting the relationship that we have with ourselves, with our money, with our partner. Joyce Ayers: Yeah, thank you so much for having me and being here with your group. yeah, how I, well, ⁓ I became a divorce coach is because I got a divorce. And before I was working with women. I called finding their thing. you know, as an empty nester, you know, you're kind of done with the job because it's not fulfilling anymore or like, what's next? so it was like, always like, what, what is your thing? Like, what is, what is it you want to do that lights you up? That's your zone of genius. And ⁓ a book called the big leap that talks a lot ⁓ about, ⁓ And you know, the zone of genius, you know, there's four different levels, but the zone of genius is like, you're doing what you love and you're good at it. You know, so those two combined. Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. I'm reading that now. Joyce Ayers: we get to that place, we're fully in line with our purpose, what we're passionate about, ⁓ we know we're good at, but it really lights us up. like, wanna go to work every day, but it's not work. So I was working with women to find thing, ⁓ and ⁓ get along, and then there would always be some roadblocks, some kind of barrier, or some reason why they ⁓ couldn't keep And ⁓ it came to relationships, or they didn't have a clear understanding of themselves and what they were passionate about. And so I always had to like kind of backtrack with them to remove those blocks and then move forward again, you know, as there was some clarity and they really had a good idea of what's important to them about. the thing, the why, right? know, the all important why. Why do want to save money? Why do you want to spend money? All those things. And so, you know, so was going along for a number of years doing that. And my relationship was, you know, it was, you know, struggling. And I just, you know, I remember there's just so much energy that I was pouring into the relationship, you know, emotionally and everything. And while trying to run my business, trying to, you know, work, still working with these women. Lisa Drennon: Yeah. ⁓ Joyce Ayers: And then eventually we divorced and it was after the divorce that I just felt this freedom, like this release. know, it like, I'm no longer responsible for this person. It's just me. And then I could pour all my energy into my business and what I was passionate about. ⁓ you know, I was already in my zone of genius, but it was just like, kind of the, the energy that I needed to put into was being sucked out of it. Cause it, my relationship wasn't supporting me. So I wasn't able to support my relationship. So I was on my journey and then I, you know, and then since it was divorce and relationships that, and money, that are a lot of times that are, you is that the foundational part at the root of it. I decided to focus on divorce again so that women... can get that clarity back and start determining and deciding what their future is going to be and how they're going to spend their money and how they're going to spend their time and all those things and then move them forward to finding their thing. So, you know, we can go when we go and go, ⁓ we address the blocks, the beliefs, the patterns, all those things. Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Joyce Ayers: that are getting in the way of us living in our zone of genius. this, if we don't address them and we heal them, acknowledge them, all the deeper work, not just, yeah, I read that book and now I know this about me and I'm good. ⁓ like, no, it's don't learn how to do finances by reading a book. It's by having someone like you. It's like, ⁓ yeah, can know that you're supposed to do this, but ⁓ what's problem? ⁓ So Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Right, well you actually do it. Joyce Ayers: Yeah, well, so, I read all kinds of books on relationship and, well, now I know this about me. Well, maybe this is how what's going on. And but it wasn't until I had a coach that I could actually like move through the divorce and get, know, who knows where I might have been or ended up if I didn't have that extra support and just in the clarity and the guidance to help me see a new perspective for myself. You know, I might have I might have still been blaming him for everything. It's like. Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Joyce Ayers: was just being him and I was being me and it's time to take responsibility. If I manage money well, well, it's not on him because how I manage money, it's on me. And when take responsibility for ourselves and our choices, all those things, then we're empowered. And then it's like, ⁓ do I really want to do that? ⁓ Lisa Drennon: Exactly. Joyce Ayers: There should be a direct consequence, not just, he'll rescue me, he'll fix it, you know, or, well, he's spending money, I'll spend money, all the things that get in the way. Lisa Drennon: That's really common. I definitely want to talk about that because a lot of times in relationships, you know, when we're married, we don't have that financial talk. We don't sit down and say, okay, we're going to get this joint account and this is how the bill is going to be paid. You know, especially if one partner makes more than the other, you know, I know a lot of partners where they keep their money separate. You know, they each have their own checking savings accounts and they might have a joint checking account for their household expenses. You know, but whatever money they make, they do what they want with, you know, and they're still contributing to the household. So whatever works for couples is going to work. But sitting down and having that conversation is so important and saying, okay, this is how much money we need to run this household. We need to both put in our equal share, period. That's how I see it. Just period. Equal share. And if you don't have that conversation because, and we talked about this pre-show, you know, while I'm supporting him while he's going to school. or I'm in school right now so I can't contribute my fair share or I'm a stay at home mom. So is my share. And I think a lot of stay at home moms don't see the value of the money indirectly because money is energy and they're indirectly contributing by staying at home. And I to tell my husband this all the time when our kids were little, I am contributing. I I was working full time, but he used to work. overtime. So he was gone until like nine o'clock every night. was doing, it was like a single mom taking all the kids to ⁓ activities, right? ⁓ I was just like, well, you know, and he say, well, you know, I pay the bulk of the bills because you don't make as much money as I do. And it's just like, well, no, ⁓ I home and take care of the children so you can stay and work extra hours to cover the bulk of the bills. We can swap. You can stay home. Joyce Ayers: Yeah, I've been there. Yeah. Lisa Drennon: and I'll go work extra hours. It might be more sane for me to do that. we don't, we... But we don't see the value of our partner's contribution. I a lot of couples and this is, this goes for men too. Like some men make less than their wives. And they're the, so they're not the breadwinners and their wives, well, we don't make as much money as I do. And they just constantly bring it up into their face. And it creates this tension in this... Joyce Ayers: Yeah, Yeah. You can home and kiss 24-7. Lisa Drennon: this feeling of being inadequate. I don't know how many moms I've talked to who feel like they can't spend money because they didn't earn it. You know, that they're a stay-at-home mom and they didn't earn it. So what's your viewpoint? Like when you're talking to someone, like I imagine a lot of the conversations with divorce moms are, you know, people going through divorce, getting coaching is like bashing the other, you know, partner and going through trying to process it and acknowledge the thoughts. But at the same time, it's just like, can't afford this. Like, how am I gonna survive? Rent is so expensive. Joyce Ayers: Well, how do you know like you can't afford it or maybe it's a lifestyle that someone wants to have, but the income doesn't match it, right? Like we spend beyond our means. That's, common. I don't know if you hear it very much anymore. Yeah, a lot of people spend beyond their means. Just put it on the credit card and or, you know, it's okay. We'll just pay it off, you know, when you get your bonus at the end of the year. You know, however, it's like that's not managing money. And yeah, there could be, definitely there's both sides that, well, I guess I didn't earn it. So I'm not okay to spend it. there's so much power behind making our own money. and or you know having our own money to to do whatever we want with ⁓ and it's okay and so that's why you know having having an understanding like a budget it's like okay this is our budget and this is what you have and I have and you know go do what you want with your budget and I'll do what I want and when it's gone it's gone than well I can't really can't really afford it so you just you just live in this scarcity all the time and without Lisa Drennon: My hair. Joyce Ayers: And then you're like, well, can I just get my nails done once a year? Whatever it is, I just go get coffees once a month? Something that just feels like a luxury instead of ⁓ having to be a sacrifice. Because then it does. Emotionally, does the relationship. And then it almost feels like, well, can I spend that? You're always asking Lisa Drennon: This is... Mm-hmm. Right. Joyce Ayers: Is that too much to ask for? you know, it's just, it's not a level playing field for sure. And, you know, it's like one person earns more than the other. And it's like, okay, well, that's going to be a factor the whole time you're married. It's like, well, I, I earn the money. Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Joyce Ayers: I was like, well, yeah, you do. I take care of all these other things. Otherwise I'd go to work. I remember was working and it's like, time to have a family. And okay. And I thought, ⁓ I'm going go back to work. As soon as I started having kids, I had those little kids and it's like, no way am I going back to work and somebody else is going to raise my kids. ⁓ so, ⁓ do that for a while. And it's like, okay, you go to work and I work at home. Lisa Drennon: Right, exactly. Joyce Ayers: I work taking care of the kids and I'll take care of everything else. And that's my contribution. Because it's not a nine to five. Most people know it's like, the kid is sick in the middle of the night, well, who gets up, right? Well, I guess you've got to go to work. So I'll get up in the middle of the night and I'll sacrifice the sleep because I'm at home. And like you said, if you add up. Lisa Drennon: Right. Joyce Ayers: All of that, like, you know, having to go to the doctors and the dentist and, you know, the sicknesses and clothes shopping and school. like if you add all that up, if you had to had to hire like a nanny or something and in daycare. Lisa Drennon: Right. Joyce Ayers: ⁓ I got to ask my boss if I can get off early so I can go take the kids to sports or something. a single parent, there's lot of sacrifice that would come from that. And if it's not ⁓ seen respected and appreciated by both people and valued, then there's going to be an imbalance there. And it's built definitely into money. The money is a big part in this. I ⁓ can't afford sitters. ⁓ Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Right, and I know a lot of marriages break up because the relationship starts to go south because they don't spend any quality time together. They're not dating because of the kids, because of the work schedules, and they can't afford a babysitter. There's so many different ways to figure out, oh, we can afford this. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money. That's why I love creating money buckets, because you decide on how you want to spend your money, create a money bucket for it, and then that's how you spend it. A lot of times we just ... We have this challenge we're doing right now on the smell of money and it's the conscious spending. And when you really look and see on a daily basis how we're spending our money, and we can do this for time, we can do this like in our relationship because you you think about how much effort do you put into your relationship, if you're not spending enough time with it, it's not going to flourish. It's not going to be a productive relationship because you're not putting any effort into it. And I think that's we get complacent and we... kind of just do our own thing and we feel insignificant or we start to self-sabotage or what have you because we're not getting what we need but we're not asking for it either. And that all comes down to trust, like just being able to trust ourselves to ask for what we need. It's so important. So when you think about your own journey and going through the divorce and splitting your finances and did that make the relationship worse? Or did you have like, oh yeah, we're going to split 50-50. I know some states are 50-50 with distribution, but others aren't. So how was your experience with that? As you were going through the divorce and you had to split everything, you know, you get the house, you get this, you get that. it, did it like hurt? Joyce Ayers: Like before the divorce or after I thought of- Yeah, our divorce was different than traditional. You didn't involve lawyers and mediators and everything. ⁓ We sit down and start, okay, this is worth this and this is worth that. We were a place that, ⁓ you know, relationship is not working. We love each other, but we need to part ways. And it was like, how do we part ways so that we both can do well still and be taken care of, like without one person being without or the other? So, you know, we had two homes. Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Joyce Ayers: one was more like a fixer upper and ⁓ it ended up getting fully renovated. And so we had two homes and I'm like, okay, well want this other home you have that home. And he's like, okay, that's fine. ⁓ then we each had our own car. That was no big deal. ⁓ then we started looking a bit at finances. Okay, well, what do we have? What is coming in? kind of divide it, but look at it long term too. Because legally, I'm in Texas and it's like, okay, you're required to have a spousal maintenance for three years legally. So we decided to come up with a different agreement rather than just like throw it all out there in one lump sum. It's like, okay, let's spread it out. So we customized it based on what... what would make sense and be sustainable over time. And we were both really happy with it because, you know, it's like, okay, well, what furniture do you want? Okay, well, you know, my place doesn't fit this, so I'm going to need some new stuff. So I went and bought new furniture, you know, and it wasn't like, well, that's going to cost that. So it's going to come out of that. was just get what you need to set up your place and not like, you know, kind of take everything out of the home so that, you know, he had his things. Lisa Drennon: Hmm. Joyce Ayers: So that our family, like, because we have three girls, we wanted our family to just feel like, hey, it didn't work out for us. It doesn't mean our family is completely gone, like, part. that, you know, ⁓ I've come across a number of relationships they realize just, you know, it's just not working. We're butting heads. Lisa Drennon: Right. Joyce Ayers: We care about each other, but we just need to move on. And so then they go through a better scenario and maybe that's the exception. I hope it's going to be more. I hope that more people to that place ⁓ of waiting until it's so bad, then that, you you just can't talk to each other. And then now you're like, you know, Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Joyce Ayers: you're having to draw that, you know, like the line right down the middle and now actually numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers and everything. Okay, the value of this and value of that, you know, and then it gets so nitpicky. And that's, it's where you kind of get that division too. And like, well, you know, are either one person or are either person really satisfied in the end that yeah, this is good. This is good for me. This is good. Like, are they? Lisa Drennon: Yeah. Joyce Ayers: So it's, yeah, it was definitely different for us. I do suggest that people get financial counsel ⁓ other support so that you, ⁓ you don't know like how to set yourself up long-term, right? It's like, well, I guess I better think about retirement, right? What is that gonna look like? What we each need for retirement later on? Or, you home maintenance, you know, for for that. know, so factoring all those things in there was just so many, many areas that I've come to know by talking to financial advisors and managers. It like, ⁓ I didn't, I didn't consider that, you know, because I was married. I didn't have to think about those things right then. ⁓ Probably have, know, anyways, but yeah, there's just, there's, there's so much that we know, but there's a lot that we still don't know to get some support with that ⁓ and educate ourselves. Lisa Drennon: Yeah, I just on my YouTube channel, I just did a ⁓ ways to increase your income. Smart ways to save is what the title of it is. And it's ⁓ about you know, looking ⁓ one the ways is to be financially literate, really educate yourself, listen to podcasts, listen to ⁓ other stories, read books. You know, there's tons of books out there and just you go on YouTube and you can watch tons of videos ⁓ on to set up like estate planning, retirement planning. and investing in a way that's alignment with your values and how you want to see your money grow. But thinking about this stuff, it's never too late. I work with a lot of ladies that are in their ⁓ and are like, I don't have a dime for retirement. I know I've been self-employed and I've just been putting all my money back into my business. now that I'm solo, it's really hitting hard because there's just me. And I completely understand that, but it's okay because you can set up your portfolio so that it does for you what you want it to do as far as creating that nest egg, building that legacy. The thing I hear the most is, I just want to have enough money to enjoy spending without guilt and be able to for my adult children, like be able to gift them things. You know, as we have this heart as moms to want to provide and to give. And it's beautiful and some financial advisors will say, forget that, don't worry about the, you know, given to your kids, take care of you and enjoy yourself. So being able to have the money to do both, like if you do want to help out, you know, your children, adult children in some way, you can comfortably do that without worrying about your own future, you know, being insecure. You could set it up with your money buckets so that you have enough. again, it just goes back to having that relationship with money. trusting yourself to say, this is what I need to do. as a divorced ⁓ we have mostly mompreneurs listening in our audience, thinking about being in that situation where I only have X amount of dollars coming in, I don't have enough. And there's plenty. You just have to tell yourself when you're talking about this, what I love about the big leap is ⁓ were talking about the numbers that you had mentioned earlier. And he had given an example, and I think it was chapter four or five, about spending time trying to figure it out on your own without hiring a coach. And he used the example of his friend who was, I think he was an attorney, but he was trying to install his own printer and it took him like 13 hours. you know, and he said, I guess the guy charges a thousand dollars an hour. So, you know, he ended up paying someone a hundred dollars to fix it or to install it. the author had pointed that out and said, should have just, ⁓ you should have just hired somebody initially. And this is what we do. ⁓ because we don't trust ourselves and others, you know, maybe we've been burned or what have you, we'll spend hours researching when all it is, like, I can just connect with the perfect coach and get my answers quickly. And I don't have to go down a rabbit hole, you know, and this is for insurance too. I'm an independent insurance broker and I see people. spending hours in the marketplace looking for insurance and I'm gonna stop because you're not even buying the right insurance. You don't know, there's too many rabbit bunny trails to go down, you know, thinking about what's the best option. Like you wanna talk to somebody who's integrated in that field, who has that expertise, who's been there, who knows exactly how to navigate it in seconds versus hours, versus days. so important to connect with coaches. So tell us how you help your clients, which gives us a little example of the path that you walk them through when, what's the best time for someone to work with you? Joyce Ayers: ⁓ I guess I love everything you said, because, you know, definitely the work that you're doing with people is just how you value money? Where are you going to put your money? so it can work for you later on, not just now, but plan. So it's like rather than rather than wait till you have no money, which is kind like divorce is like, ⁓ I wish I would have, you know, made those whatever decisions about my finances. ⁓ like rather than wait till, wait to find out I'm now divorced and we've already signed all the papers and all the agreements and ⁓ I wish I would have, you know, made different choices, but they weren't in the head space. They were in the heart space. They were, you know, all the emotions were, you know, like it was almost like a tornado or flood coming in. Like, you know, the emotions come in and then they go in. So you're kind of in a down or you're an up or you're an anxious. There's so much going on that you're, that people are navigating. at that time, but you can't really see the clarity and definitely not make really sound choices and judgments, you know, have a good judgment about what do I need and no, just give it all to him. I just want nothing to do with it. And then it's like, whoops, you know, I shouldn't have done that. have a couple of clients, it's like, because they were just, ⁓ want, I don't want anything to do with them. I just want it to go away. ⁓ Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Joyce Ayers: Well, it's not going to go away if you have nothing because it's just going to follow you because now you have nothing. if you set yourself up with an agreement, now you can just let it go. you know, if someone knows that they've done everything they can ⁓ the relationship, they've tried as much as they can, and it's not working. So they're like, OK, well, you know, it's kind of like maybe the other person doesn't want a divorce, but it's like for them, for you. ⁓ It's like I'm done and I'm moving on. And so that's a good time to start really looking at the finances. It's like, well, where are the finances and what's coming in and what assets do we have? But really at the same time, take care ⁓ the internal part as letting go of this relationship because we're wired stay connected. It's we're neurologically wired. And so even though you want to be done with the relationship, there's that primal instinct that says, no, don't do it. Don't, you know, stay like, you know, hold on, right? As much as like, don't don't go. You can figure it out. you are, you know, ⁓ of the one of the other person is leaving. So as soon as you know that that is happening, whether it's your choice or somebody else's choice is. Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. We can't. Joyce Ayers: always say, just start taking care of yourself first, like, you know, the emotional part, self-care, ⁓ you know, all the basics, you know, sleep, rest, ⁓ eat, all those things, but your thoughts, the thoughts are going crazy. And like did this, she did that, you know, this is happening and we just spiral and spiral. And just like, you know, ⁓ monitoring money, when you monitor your thoughts you can stand back, it's called disassociating. When you can disassociate and observe your thoughts, like, ⁓ am I thinking? Like, wow, an hour's gone by and I've been like obsessing about whatever for an hour. ⁓ that obsessing. Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Joyce Ayers: creates like an emotional response, which creates a neurological response. then you're supposed to make a sound, logical, good judgment decision about your future that place. So do a lot of work with, we just call it mindset. Because it's not just mindset, it's like, ⁓ what are ⁓ worried about? the patterns that are happening? What are the beliefs about yourself and your future? What's possible? What... what have you carried from your your parents, because it gets passed down, The beliefs about money, beliefs about love and relationships. We into all of that to really start dismantling it reprogramming it and rewiring it. And so in doing that, it's like, ⁓ what do you value about a relationship? What do you value about money? Well, I just want to have money so I could be able to pay my rent. Well, is that all you value money for? Well, you know, I kind of like to go out and have a cocktail once in a while. Okay, well, what else do you value about money? What else do you value about, you know, yourself, like taking care of yourself? Why is it important? The big why? Like, why is it important to take care of yourself? Well, so that I can have clarity and I'm not foggy brain and I'm not snapping at people because my emotions are I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm grieving. It's like a lot of times we don't take time to even acknowledge what we're feeling and what we're going through. It's like loving on yourself. I remember the first, early on when I was learning about self-love, I was like, well, I love myself. Well, how do I love myself? Well, I guess I love myself. And then really diving into it, like, well, am I surrounding myself with people that support me? Kind of. you know, am I saying yes to everything that people are asking me? It's like, well, yeah. it's like, well, how is that self love when you're so exhausted and maxed out, you're burned out, but you're still saying yes to these things, saying saying yes to the person going to be your former husband soon. It's like, yes, you can have this. Yes, you can have that. So yeah, do I do a lot of that internal work with people and then asking the questions, you know, about money, about you whatever it is that they need, that they're going to need the divorce. Like, don't think about right now, like, you know, like, yes, be in the present. And we call that chunking down, but then chunk up, look at the big picture. And how do you want your life to be a year from now after your divorce, five years from now. ⁓ And like what you're doing, you got a plan. It's like, well, if you don't have what you need to help you start, Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Joyce Ayers: Or even to believe that something is possible like then how ⁓ you gonna see your future? The way you want because you don't even believe you can have it ⁓ again, there's this alignment and the zone of genius, know, you can call you know, like after divorce you can be in your zone of genius It's like well, yeah, ⁓ was this person in the relationship and it was going okay. So that's the zone of excellence I was good at being a wife, as good as I can be, but it wasn't going well. I wasn't happy. I wasn't passionate about the relationship. Okay, well, the relationship is gone. How about getting into your zone of genius about yourself and your life? Doing what you like, doing what you're passionate about, doing what lights you up, feeling good about yourself, regardless of what size you are, what foods you like, or you in that zone of genius, loving your life and loving yourself? Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. And that's so important to identify that. It's so important to identify that. And I think, especially we go through that transition, ⁓ we ourselves raising a family, being a wife. There's so many demands and we don't put ourselves first and prioritize. And then when you're faced with, wow, ⁓ there's me now. And do I even like myself? And then working on you to build up that relationship so that Joyce Ayers: and having the means to do that. Sorry? Lisa Drennon: You can be the best person and you can be in your zone of genius and be able to what you truly want. You know, we all want to find true happiness and what does that happiness looks like? It's different for each and every one of us. But really ⁓ happy with yourself is where it begins. Cause if you don't like you, no one's going to like you. We to be our best cheerleader, our best friend. ⁓ Joyce Ayers: In relationships, we sacrifice a lot. a lot of self abandonment. ⁓ And after like, why did I do that? Why did I allow that? It's, well, why did you? It's good. It's to kind of, rather than condemning yourself and ⁓ being really mean yourself, it's like, well, ask those questions. What was going on that? Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Joyce Ayers: you did do those things. Because there was something motivating the behavior that, again, the programming, it could be passed down because that's how our moms or dads did it. That's how grandma did it. That's how our whole extended family did it. That's how our culture did it, especially culturally. plays into a lot of ⁓ we see ourselves and how we manage things. Lisa Drennon: Thank you. Mm-hmm. Joyce Ayers: And it's like, know, value ourselves, but how do we value ourselves when we're just constantly, well, you didn't do that, you didn't do this. you know, and focusing again, those thoughts, you know, if you don't even know those are the thoughts that you're having about yourself, how are you supposed to create that next thing? You know, like create this life that you're going to love. and look forward to waking up to every day and rather than, well, I can't do that. Well, I can't do that. It's like, well, what can you do? There's something that you can do. I get with you. First of all, just start, hey, like I've got this money. How do I make it grow? How do I use it wisely? Because, you know, beliefs, ⁓ patterns, like unless, ⁓ we're not necessarily taught all the things and then we just watch, you know, Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Joyce Ayers: Well, we never had money growing up. I just like every time I got money, I spent it, right? Because I'm never going to have any. So when I get it, I'll buy something and then I'll have money again, rather than, I have money. ⁓ save half and I'll spend half. ⁓ it's unspoken way that we saw or whatever it was ⁓ about how money was handled. ⁓ Lisa Drennon: Right. Joyce Ayers: or even the belief it's like, those people have quite a bit of money. You know, how did they get it? Right? did they do that it was maybe underhanded? It's like, well, they worked hard. Yeah, but we work hard too. And we don't have money. You know, it's ⁓ it's so ⁓ of subtle and it's right in our faces at the same time. And it really Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Yes. And you know, the comparison factor is probably the biggest pitfall that we go into because everyone has their own journey and it's all a matter of choice. And when we decide whatever we want, if you think about all the things that you've accomplished in your life, you made that choice to get that. And you went after it, you were diligent, you put in the work, you put in the action. And a lot of times people will say, well, I want to make $50,000 a month or, you know, it doesn't matter what number it is that you want to make. but you say it, but you don't take any action. You don't pay attention to your money and you don't trust yourself to be a good steward of your money. Therefore you never get. And you know, a lot of times entrepreneurs will be like, well, I'm just going to make more money and that will solve all my problems. No, making more money gives you more problems. It doesn't solve any of your problems. And if you don't know what to do with a thousand dollars, you're certainly not going to know what to do with $50,000. You you're just going to blow it faster than it comes in because you don't trust yourself. And ultimately it's that relationship with yourself. You know, when you love yourself and you can understand what your desires, what your goals, where, how you want your life to be, that's when everything falls into place. And having coaches like yourself to see that out of you. I like the fact that you said you chunk things down and then you chunk it up. We're so used to, know, having that bird's eye view of our life, having someone say, okay, asking you the right questions because we're never gonna ask ourselves the hard questions. We're never gonna get deep enough to get to the layer of our heart center to say, yeah, this is what I want because we'll get distracted, we'll come up with excuses, we'll do all kinds of self-sabotaging things to prevent us. And we can spend hours thinking, okay, what can I do? And we start to listen, we go after the shiny object syndrome and it's just like really just connect with one coach that you're completely aligned with and you know, understanding how, like listen to your intuition. Like there's, worked with tons of coaches and some of them weren't a good fit. And I knew on the call that they weren't going to be a good fit, but I did it anyways because I was in the shiny object syndrome because I didn't trust myself. And I thought, well, you know, all coaches have excellent programs, but they might not all work for you because of where you're at at that moment, because of what you're ready to receive and implement. asking yourself like, is this a good fit at this time in my life? of the time, ⁓ going to get the right answer and then you can choose whether to invest or not. And it doesn't matter. Like when we come from a place of, ⁓ to invest in myself because I want to improve so that I can turn around and help others. That's a different position than, well, I don't really want to invest in myself. I can't afford it. That person's too expensive this, to that. No, that's like the wrong... approach because you're not doing it based on your own thoughts. You're doing it based on what someone else is telling you. Anytime our thoughts are so important, it's the most powerful tool that we have. When you can get help activating those thoughts and really examining them and asking yourself, what is it that I believe? I know a lot of women that go through divorce just feel like failures. It's like, I failed at a marriage. I'm no good. You know, I remember when I was a single mom and it was like, well, who's going to want you with a kid? Your baggage. That's a horrible thing to say to somebody. You especially, ⁓ I'm Joyce Ayers: We have to say that to ourselves. It's like, I've got a kid. Lisa Drennon: Yeah. You know, I remember when I went back dating, I'd be like, well, I just right up front, I'm like, well, I'm not going to waste my time. I'm just going tell them have a kid right up front, first five minutes. Well, you probably don't want to hang out with me because I'm a single mom. have a kid. Joyce Ayers: Maybe I thought maybe I might, but since you're putting it that way, maybe I don't want to hang out with you. Our words are so powerful. I'm trained in NLP, which is neuro-linguistic programming. yeah, our words are so powerful. Like even just to, like you meet someone, like, yeah, you're probably not going to want to ⁓ out with me because I've got a kid rather than I've got a kid. Like we're really doing well. ⁓ yeah, I'd like to explore a relationship with you rather than. Lisa Drennon: Yeah, I don't have time to waste here. Joyce Ayers: You don't want to go out with me. It's like, maybe I don't, there must be something wrong with you. If you're, if you're telling me upfront than that's last thing you want. It's like, you know, I've got this baggage, I'm a single mom, all these things that are wrong with me. It's like, there's nothing wrong with you. You're a single mom and you got a kid. So it is, you know, ⁓ you were talking about, you know, just when people are ready and there's like two people that come to me, the ones that want a quick fix. And then the ones that are ready to really do some healing. Lisa Drennon: Hahaha! Right. Mm-hmm. All right. Joyce Ayers: And the quick fixes is like, just well, it's their fault. What do need to do? you know, and they're not, they're not looking at taking responsibility, being accountable, those things. ⁓ then somebody's like, make this, make this go away. I don't want to bury it anymore. ⁓ don't want it just to go away because I know it's going to come back to bite me. You know, how do I, how do I really move on from, from this relationship? Again, ⁓ attachment that we have. primal instinct is to stay connected. And ⁓ people create situations. ⁓ don't know, like you break a leg. I need you to help right? Cause it holds, it tethers you together, right? ⁓ Or you lash out at person and then they lash back and ⁓ but we get to stay tethered together. ⁓ And so it's like, it's all Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Joyce Ayers: disconnecting a book I'm reading. ⁓ I've had it for a while. It's The Untethered Soul, Michael Singer, I think it is. he talks about it, but there's also other resources that I have ⁓ that we situations and scenarios so that even if the divorce is over, make excuses or find reasons that we can, Lisa Drennon: Mm-hmm. Joyce Ayers: I kept house, but I don't know how to fix it. I'll just them and come over and help all those things. ⁓ how about I just call the plumber rather than involving him? And then you really disconnect on an emotional level and a dependence in a dependence way. And ⁓ we start taking responsibility for Lisa Drennon: Hahaha Joyce Ayers: what we've chosen and what we've signed up for. Lisa Drennon: Yes, taking responsibility is key. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom. love that. Tell us what's the best way for our audience to connect with you and to work with you. Joyce Ayers: Yeah, probably easiest way is go to my website, which is createyourlifeafterdivorce.com and you can find out more about me. You can connect with me, see programs that I have offered there, just, you know, get some insights and inspirations. You know, you can find me on Facebook as well. Just, you know, it's Joyce Ayres and I think there's a few of us, but just look for the one with white hair. And I'm posting all kinds of things there about ⁓ Lisa Drennon: Hahaha! Joyce Ayers: You know, I'm kind of on this self abandonment kick right now, self sacrifice. And it's like, Ooh, how did I abandon myself? How did I sacrifice what I really wanted in, you know, whatever area of life that is. So yeah, they can reach me there and, yeah, get, get ahold of me, have a convo of what's going on in your life. And why don't you have what you want? Why are you, why are you tolerating, right? Why are you tolerating your own behavior? Yeah. Lisa Drennon: I'm gonna go. Beautiful. asking those hard questions, those hard questions. ⁓ thank you so much. Joyce Ayers: Yeah, and I it in compassionate way. I don't throw you under the bus. Lisa Drennon: Some of the audience might like that though, be direct, right? But yeah, thank you so much, Joyce. And for those of you listening, check the show notes for those links to connect with Joyce. Follow her and see if it's something that like you're in a position to think, oh, you know what? I've been trying to do this on my own. I'm spending all this time, all these hours endlessly searching for answers and ending up nowhere. This is your clue that Joyce might be a good fit for you. And then when you think about your finances, your money, and your transitioning, or maybe you're already divorced and you're building up that business, think about how do I want to spend my money? What does financial freedom mean to me? Realizing that you are the author and you get to create the money, the finances of your dream, you can build that beautiful legacy so that your money works for you, not you for it. Because remember, doesn't matter how much money you have, It's what you do with it.