Erin Rhoads: All right, everybody, we're back at Murder Not Murdering with Erin and...

Autumn: Auto.

Erin Rhoads: That's her. We're back for some more talks about true crime and murders.

Autumn: We are, you know, sometimes I just wanna talk about murder with people and it comes across really weird.

Erin Rhoads: What? Yeah, you know, that is a thing. I think or or it goes goes two ways. So either it makes somebody super uncomfortable and they're like, I don't want to hear about this. I don't care about it. And I think we're so used to talking about it or even like with our friends because we're like minded people that it feels normal to be like, ⁓ have you ever heard about this horrific murder? Can you believe they slash their throats like that and just like forensics, you dummy, you know, things like that?

Autumn: Right?

Erin Rhoads: or you'll run into the opposite where you'll talk, be talking to somebody and be like, yeah, I host a true crime podcast. And they're like, ⁓ murders, I love murders. And then they telling you maybe too much detail about their family or something. Then you're like, ⁓ woo. It's like, can I cover your case? ⁓

Autumn: Mm-hmm. ⁓ You're like, ⁓ shit. Right? Can I ask permission to cover this insane case you just told me about?

Erin Rhoads: Exactly. Yeah, it's kind of funny, but it does feel like it's normal to talk about these things. mean, I tell my husband about the cases that I do. I talk about it with friends, you know, like I said tonight, and we talked about it last week, but tonight I'm doing a case that my cousin Lauren had recommended to me. So, you know, it just like comes up at, you know, family functions and ⁓ everything. ⁓ So is it is. Right.

Autumn: ⁓ ⁓

Erin Rhoads: I do want to make a big announcement.

Autumn: What? You didn't tell me.

Erin Rhoads: Yes. Are you ready, Autumn? It affects you. I quit. No, I'm kidding. We just celebrated five years of this very podcast.

Autumn: That's right, we did!

Erin Rhoads: We posted about it and we really wanted to say that we appreciate all of you and we so appreciate that you've listened to us for five fucking years. mean, that's kind of incredible.

Autumn: and told your friends about us and recommended cases to us. I just, I couldn't be more thankful.

Erin Rhoads: Yes, and that we just keep doing it. I'm thankful for you as my partner in crime in this podcast that we just keep on doing it. I mean, we definitely had a long hiatus for a minute there, but our first official episode came out five years ago. And that's kind of incredible if you think about it.

Autumn: ⁓ Quite literally. and everything that we have done since then. It's just been fun. I just love it.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah, so many episodes, so many cases, so many murders. And it's kind of funny to think back on that first one, like how we were attempting to record and editing software was quite different then. But we were just trying to make it work and figure it out. And ⁓ if you do go back to that first episode or older episodes, then you'll see it's not quite exactly the same. We didn't have our formats down and stuff that we do now. ⁓

Autumn: You

Erin Rhoads: But it's kind of fun to look back on that. My first case was my husband's murdered great grandfather. And so that's kind of crazy to think about now that ⁓ his family gave me permission to do that case. But kind of wild, five years. ⁓

Autumn: And I came right out the gate with PolyClass.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah, there you are. I mean, we started out strong.

Autumn: mean, that was such a sad one.

Erin Rhoads: I know. I know. I still think some of my favorites that I did was Murder Castle. That was one that stood out to a lot of people, the Murder Castle. Obviously, the Lover in the Attic, which is a more recent. Yeah. I also liked, there was one, ⁓ what is it called? I can't remember now, but there was a love triangle that went wrong.

Autumn: Mmm. Mm-hmm. That's my favorite one you've done.

Erin Rhoads: that I loved. love the ones that have love letters and that I can quote those. ⁓ Chicken Run, Chicken Run Murders. That was a popular one. Yeah, I mean, we've just we've done probably 100 episodes at this point. Lord knows I haven't counted, but we're close to it if we haven't done 100 episodes. You know, I will announce it on our next podcast. But it's it's pretty exciting. And again, we just so appreciate that people are still listening to us after five years.

Autumn: ⁓ the chicken chicken murders. Yeah. Yeah. Always it flatters me when people tell me that they listen to us. It's just so fun to hear it.

Erin Rhoads: I love it. I love when people, it's never anyone I would normally suspect as being a listener. And then they'll be like, hey, I listened to your podcast and do you have no idea the joy it brings me when somebody says that I'm like, ⁓ you actually listened to it.

Autumn: Mm-hmm. I know we get really excited to hear in real life that you're listening to our podcast.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah, I'm always shocked every time I'm like, I can't believe that you listen to it. I'm just, you know, we do this as like a fun.

Autumn: Mm-hmm, because I just picture our like our moms listen My mom does my mom and dad both listen ⁓ and my mother-in-law also listens

Erin Rhoads: My mom would never. Your mom does. Thanks, Kathy. Stabby Jim. Yeah, yeah, no, my none of none, not a whole lot of my family or my immediate family listen to our podcast. But that's okay. But my cousin Lauren does and I so appreciate that. Shout out Lauren.

Autumn: But Lauren does. Shout out Lauren, even though I'm not your favorite. It seems like it's kind of rigged in my opinion, but whatevs. That's what I'm saying. It's a disadvantage. You were her relative. I guess I have to.

Erin Rhoads: I have only known her since she was born, so... deal with it. Yeah, yeah you do. But speaking of, I am going first this week and I am doing a case that my cousin Lauren had referred to me. deep dive definitely took me further than I was expecting. It is something that's been, there was a Netflix movie made about it, as well ⁓ as ⁓ several documentaries. So. ⁓ This one is pretty popular, but the Netflix movie had some things wrong, and I'll talk about that later. Are you ready?

Autumn: I am.

Erin Rhoads: This is the most hated woman in America, the life and murder of Madeline Murray O'Hare. And it's a triple murder. It's a triple murder. But we're focused on her. Okay. Ready?

Autumn: excited for this one. Okay. Ready.

Erin Rhoads: Go. I feel like we were like putting our hands in and we're Power Rangers or something. OK, this one's for Captain Planet.

Autumn: ⁓ We went from Power Rangers to Captain Planet. I don't think they're the same show.

Erin Rhoads: No. They're for sure not the same show, but they do put hands in. This isn't about Captain Planet anyway. No, Power Rangers have no cameos in this case. On that note, I'm going to start this.

Autumn: or the Power Rangers. Okay, I'm ready.

Erin Rhoads: Okay, For much of the 20th century, one woman seemed to embody the culture war between religion and secularism in America. Her name was Madeline Murray O'Hare. She challenged the Bible in public schools. She sued the government across the United States. She debated ministers on television. She insulted preachers, politicians, and sometimes even her own supporters. To many Americans, she was not simply controversial. She was infamous. At the height of her notoriety, newspapers and pollsters referred to her as the most hated woman in America. But the story of Madeline Murray O'Hare is not just a story about atheism. It's about power, money, family loyalty, and ultimately a crime that shocked even those who despised her. Because in 1995, Madeline Murray O'Hare, her son and granddaughter vanished. For years, the world believed they had simply run away with the organization's money. But investigators eventually uncovered something far darker. Kidnapping, extortion, dismemberment, and three bodies buried in Texas.

Autumn: Now I know why Lauren recommended this case to you because she was like, dismemberment, that's for Erin.

Erin Rhoads: Check, check. Madeline Murray was born in 1919 in Pittsburgh. Her upbringing was not particularly religious, but it was argumentative. She later said, I was raised to question everything and question everything she did. She was brilliant, combative, intensely stubborn. After high school, she studied law briefly and later worked during World War II as a civilian cryptographer in Italy. But even early in life, She was known for her inability to tolerate authority. My kind of gal. A friend once said, Madeline did not have conversations. She had battles. That personality trait would define her life. The event that made her famous began with her son, William J. Murray III. In 1960, he attended public school in Baltimore. Every morning, Students read Bible passages and recited the Lord's Prayer. Madeline objected, not quietly. She filed a lawsuit against Baltimore school system. The case became Murray versus Curlitt. ⁓ challenge and up to the Supreme Court As Abingdon School District versus Shemp. In 1963, the court ruled government mandated Bible reading was unconstitutional. The ruling permanently changed American public schools. Suddenly, Madeline Murray O'Hare was a national figure and a lightning rod. She later declared the First Amendment was not written to protect religion from the government. It was written to protect the government from religion. But the backlash was immediate. She received thousands of death threats. Church groups condemned her. Newspapers vilified her. And the polls began describing her as the most hated woman in America. She did not deny it. She embraced it. One reporter from Life magazine once wrote that speaking with her felt like, quote, being caught in a political hurricane. She relished conflict. In fact, she believed controversy was a powerful political weapon. once explained her strategy bluntly. ⁓ I want to get people stirred up. When are stirred up, they start thinking. Her speaking style was fast and biting. and she had absolutely no hesitation about insulting religious leaders. One of her most infamous quotes was, religion is a crutch for people who are not strong enough to stand up to the unknown. Pretty spicy. Especially in 1960s America. Madeline quickly realized that television amplified controversy. She appeared on dozens of talk shows and debate programs. Her most famous confrontation came line hosted by conservative intellectual William F. Buckley Jr. Autumn, this debate, I'm going to quote some of it. The debate was explosive.

Autumn: ⁓ I've seen it.

Erin Rhoads: Buckley argued that religion was foundational to morality. He asked whether atheism could produce moral society. responded immediately. Morality has nothing to do with religion. Religion has been the enemy of morality since the beginning. Buckley challenged her. He asked ⁓ had not created charity, community, culture. And she shot back. Religion has also created wars, persecutions, and ignorance. The exchange grew heated. At one point, Buckley asked if she believed the Bible had any value, and her answer became famous. The Bible is a book of myths written by ignorant men in an ignorant age. Woo. That one.

Autumn: I'm sorry, but I don't disagree.

Erin Rhoads: I also don't disagree. I'm not an atheist, but I do not believe in organized religion. Anyways, the audience gasped and she continued, you can no more run a modern world with the Bible than you can run a modern hospital with medieval medicine. I mean, girl, right on point there. I just was like, holy shit, you know, and it's not

Autumn: No. same.

Erin Rhoads: Nothing to our religious listeners. Those are my personal views that I'm speaking of as far as that. And this is pertaining to the case and what she says. And I'm not trying to offend anyone. Organized religion is just not for me. And I know some people need it. But I'm not a believer. ⁓ So.

Autumn: No. And I believe everyone should be able to believe in what they want to believe in.

Erin Rhoads: Exactly, just don't force it on anybody else. Or hurt anybody through religion. Whether viewers admired her or despised her, the result was always the same. They watched and they remembered. When Buckley accused her of attacking civilization, she responded, one world, one people, and no religion. Even critics admitted that she was formidable.

Autumn: for hurting me. Yes.

Erin Rhoads: A journalist once wrote, she debated like a street fighter armed with a law book. In 1963, she founded American Atheists. The group's mission was clear, enforce the separation of church and state, which is in our Constitution. The organization eventually moved its headquarters to Austin, Texas, and it became the largest atheist advocacy organization in the United States. But American Atheists was not a typical nonprofit. It was essentially a family enterprise. Her son, John Garth Murray, became a key administrator, and her granddaughter, Robin Murray O'Hare, handled publications and operations. The family lived together. They worked together. They controlled the organization together. Former staff later described the structure as Intensely centralized. ⁓ One recalled, everything flowed through Madeline, the money, the decisions, and the lawsuits. And there was money, membership dues, donations, book ⁓ sales, settlements. Former employees later said that the family guarded financial information carefully. One former staff member told investigators, you didn't question the money. The money belonged to Madeleine. But the organization also attracted hostility. The office received bomb threats. Staff sometimes needed police protection at events. Yet the family continued their activism. By the 1990s, The organization reportedly controlled hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets. But the Murray family was not unified. Her older son, eventually converted to Christianity. And he later became a Christian activist. The split was explosive. Madeline publicly denounced him. At one point she said, one would call this a postnatal abortion. That's a.

Autumn: OMG I forgot she said that.

Erin Rhoads: That's a bit cringe, I gotta say. Goodness. There few became national news, but inside American Atheists, in control with John and Robin by her side until a new employee entered the picture. In 1993, the organization hired a man named David Roland Waters. Waters had a criminal past. He had once been convicted of murder as a teenager and later served time for assault and forgery. Despite this, he quickly rose within the organization and he became an office manager. Now here's the thing. Would I let somebody convicted of forgery work as an office manager? Oh, fuck no. Anyway, he gained access to the group's finances, but the relationship deteriorated. in 1994 when Waters was accused of stealing $54,000 from the organization. He was prosecuted for that and humiliated publicly in the group's newsletter. He was also forced to repay the money. And according to investigators, he became obsessed with revenge. Authorities later said that he fantasized about killing Madeline.

Autumn: Shocker.

Erin Rhoads: So, so I'm sorry, he was mad and became obsessed with revenge for stealing?

Autumn: Yeah, he did that to himself.

Erin Rhoads: Just saying. Anyway, on August 27th, 1995, something strange happened. Madeline, John, and Robin all vanished from their Austin home and office. A note was taped to the office door saying that the family had left town on an emergency trip. Now, this isn't super unlike them because they ran all aspects of the organization and leaving a note on the door. that no one should go in until they were back would have been par for the course. Then the employees received phone calls claiming that they were traveling on business and something sounded wrong. Staff later said that the voices sounded strained and frightened. Then the money started moving. John Murray began transferring sums of the organization's accounts. Eventually, more than $600,000 was withdrawn. He used the money to purchase $500,000 worth of gold coins. At first, authorities suspected voluntary disappearance. have taken off with the money and started a new life. But then, investigators later determined the truth. And I will say, one of the things that came up in this is that they left their dogs behind. And they never would have done that because dogs are the best. Just saying. And even their staff said they would never have left their dogs without anybody watching them or anything. The dogs end up okay, you guys, just in case you were worried. I was. Anyway, investigators later determined the truth. Waters and two accomplices had kidnapped the family. The conspirators included Gary Paul Carr and Danny Raymond Frye. The captors took the O'Hare family to the Warren Inn

Autumn: are the best and cats.

Erin Rhoads: on the northwest side of San Antonio, where the group lived for a month in a two-bedroom, one-bath rental. While in captivity, the O'Hairs played card games, Monopoly, and had philosophical discussions. Murray and a captor would leave to pick up Mexican food at La Fonda and often stayed for beers and margaritas. So they were awfully friendly in this exchange.

Autumn: Mm-hmm.

Erin Rhoads: In September 1995, John Murray had $600,000 wired to the US from New Zealand, which was what they used to buy the gold coins. On September 29th, John Murray picked up $500,000 worth of gold coins from a small jeweler on Fredericksburg Road. He never returned to get the remaining $100,000. The kidnappers had planned to disappear with the fortune. But after the money was secured, they murdered the entire family. Investigators later determined that the victims were killed shortly after the final withdrawals were completed. They were strangled. Their bodies were dismembered, and then they were burned and buried on a rural property in Texas. But these criminals made mistakes. After killing the O'Hairs, the conspirators turned on each other. Within days, Danny Fry was murdered. His decapitated body was found near the Trinity River in Dallas. The head and hands were missing. For years, investigators didn't know who he was. but the discovery would later become a key clue. Now this part made me laugh and that's not great, but you'll see why. No, listen, the killers hid $400,000 worth of gold coins in a storage locker and then something bizarre happened. Burglars broke into the locker. They found the coins and stole them. So, The thieves were thieves, and that was kind of funny. The thieves later testified that they had spent the money on, well, I'm sorry, the thieves that stole the gold coins, because they're all thieves here, spent the money on cars, gambling, jewelry, and trips to Las Vegas. So this perfect crime that they had committed had unraveled through sheer bad luck. For years, the case remained unsolved.

Autumn: Mm-hmm.

Erin Rhoads: and theories arose that they kept the money and moved away. And in 1996, John McCormick John McCormick, a reporter for the San Antonio Express News, was tasked with writing an anniversary piece for the newspaper, an anniversary of their disappearance. He interviewed people at the Atheist Center, checked clips and rechecked details. He was relentless and followed every lead. Then in June 1998, McCormick got a call from a tipster who said it was a kidnapping. and that he had had a name. The man said the O'Hairs were held at Gum Point and taken to San Antonio by David Waters. He said he couldn't remember if it was Waters or Walters. The point is the tip came in and with a little investigating McCormick found a connection between Madeleine O'Hair and David Waters. The tipster said he was a friend or relative of a person concerned with the welfare of a man named Danny Fry. who is the murdered conspirator. At that point in 1999, the FBI entered the picture arresting Waters and another man, Gary Carr, in connection with the case. The FBI's investigation would reveal the rest of the puzzle, Including the deep seated hatred Waters had for Madeleine O'Hare. According to an FBI affidavit at one time, Waters told his girlfriend he envisioned. envisioned cutting off each of her toes one by one.

Autumn: ⁓ my God.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah, and in a documentary I watched his girlfriend was like, it was almost funny at the time. I just didn't really think he was serious. Yeah. So I don't know why that would be funny, but all right.

Autumn: I don't either, so here we are.

Erin Rhoads: Then in 2001, investigators pressured Waters into revealing the burial site. And he did so not out of the kindness of his heart, but for a plea agreement solely on the charge of conspiracy. Of course, he agreed to lead authorities to the site where the dismembered bodies of the O'Hairs had been burned and buried. On a Texas ranch, FBI agents uncovered the human remains.

Autumn: ⁓ Of course.

Erin Rhoads: They discovered that the legs of all three of the victims had been cut off with a saw. Brutal. The remains had suffered such extensive mutilation and decomposition that officials had to identify them through dental records, DNA testing, Madeline's case matching the serial number to a prosthetic hip from the Bracken Ridge Hospital in The ⁓ remains definitively belonged to Madeline Murray John Garth Murray, and Robin Murray O'Hare. And they also found the missing head and hands of Danny Fry at the site, which is really gross to just find a head and hands. Anyway, six years, just saying.

Autumn: That's not the first time that's happened to anybody so that's even weirder

Erin Rhoads: No, I've literally covered the head and hands murders because people would remove the head and hands because those what identify them. So people did that all the time for funsies. All right. Six years after their disappearance, the mystery seemed like it was finally solved. Gary Carr had been sentenced to two life sentences for his part of the extortion and murder plot. He had previously served decades in prison for crimes, including rape, kidnapping and armed robbery.

Autumn: Mm-hmm.

Erin Rhoads: In the year 2000, the time of his, at the time in his 70s, he appealed his sentence with the federal courthouse in Austin and then was re-sentenced to 50 more years in prison. So nice try, Gary. David Waters, the mastermind, after the plea deal- was sentenced to serve 20 years in federal prison, which he had requested because he did not want to serve time for his earlier theft conviction in a Texas state prison. He did not go on trial for the kidnapping and murder of the three members of the O'Hare family. He also was ordered to pay back a total of $543,665 to the American atheist. and the estates of Madeline Murray O'Hare, John Garth Murray, and Robin Murray O'Hare. It is unlikely, though, that any of these debts were ever paid because Waters was not able to earn any money while he was in prison. He died in prison of lung cancer in 2003. This case remains one of the most bizarre crimes tied to a political activist in American history. Madeline Murray O'Hare was a paradox. She was deeply intellectual, fiercely independent, intensely combative, and she thrived on public controversy. But she was also deeply devoted to her family. Those that knew her best said that she believed she was fighting a historic battle, one that she once summarized this way. I'm fighting for the right of every American to believe or disbelieve as they choose. And whether people admired her, or they despised her, few could deny her influence. When the minister accused her of attacking faith itself, she responded with, I'm not attacking your right to believe. I'm attacking your right to force belief on everyone else. The woman who had spent her life challenging institutions and provoking debate ultimately died in a crime that had nothing to do with religion, only greed and betrayal. Yet her legacy remains. The Supreme Court decision that she helped spark continues to shape American public education. The organization that she built, American Atheists, still exists today. And the debate she forced into the national conversation, the question of where religion ends and government begins, is still raging. Love her or hate her, Madeleine Murray O'Hare changed the country. And even in death, she remains one of the most controversial figures in American history. My sources were the Washington Post, the San Antonio Express News, the Austin Chronicles, from investigator Edmund Martin, ⁓ FBI investigation firing line debate the Phil Donahue Show interviews, and the documentary Most hated woman in America. There is two of those documentaries. There's the movie, and then there's an actual documentary. I watch the actual documentary. So, Madeline, very controversial, obviously, but also she has a a dark side here because she was known for also saying a lot of racist and she was also a Holocaust denier.

Autumn: Yes.

Erin Rhoads: which is really weird. I mean, and she was sometimes arguing for arguing sake. And like I said, I don't disagree with a lot of the stuff she said personally as far as ⁓ not any of those things. But I don't agree with forced religion on people. don't agree with.

Autumn: No, and I strongly agree with separation from church and state.

Erin Rhoads: Our country was built on that, right? It's in our Constitution. This is all

Autumn: I mean my opinion is, and this is just my opinion, is that how do we know which religion is the right true religion? Why are we forcing a certain religion down anyone's throat? Everyone should have the right to choose and no one should have to do any religion if they don't want to.

Erin Rhoads: Exactly. And it shouldn't be in our schools. Absolutely not. So on those points, I do agree with her. And man, she was formidable. that Netflix movie, remember, it is a piece of fiction, y'all. There is. Yes. And all of these interactions, a lot of it takes place in her home with her parents. they don't have.

Autumn: in the school. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes, it has to be entertaining.

Erin Rhoads: things to support some of the stuff that happened in the home. They have them being held captive and having all of these interactions with the kidnappers, which didn't happen or not that any of us would know. So there's a lot of those things that are speculations and exaggerations. ⁓ They also play up that the O'Hairs had these secret hidden bank accounts all over. and were hiding money and that but they don't have anything to actually support that that they were hiding money it is weird that they had a bank account in New Zealand I think that that is super weird but they don't have anything showing that they were hiding any money you know what I mean and that was played up really heavily in the documentary and the American Atheists really there they did not enjoy that documentary not documentary the film I should say they really, really don't like it. And a lot of people that knew her also disagreed with the way that she was portrayed in that. So take it with a grain of salt. It is a piece of fiction based on a true story. But if you do get a chance, and you're interested in debates, man, it is a master class watching her work with a lot of these people and talking to them. ⁓ both on Phil Donahue and then the firing line one is just like so famous and just I mean she is not she does not back down she does not you know get intimidated and a woman in the 1960s generally was never given that amount of power to talk back and to stand up to a man the way that she did and so in that way I do admire her tenacity but She also said a lot of racist shit and a lot of things that were super inappropriate. Super problematic. But I think her case is worth hearing. And I did think it was funny that the robbers got robbed.

Autumn: Yes, like super problematic. I did too. That was kind of like a come up, come muffins.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, they'll get their camuffins. All right, so thank you, Lauren, for sending me that one because it does tick all my boxes. I love a little controversy and a little dismemberment, a little bit of Monica in my life. Just like all my favorite things. So thanks again, Lauren. So just remember, if you have any cases, do send them to us, slide into our DMs because we will do them.

Autumn: Look how joyful she is.

Erin Rhoads: That's that. Autumn, are you ready?

Autumn: I am ready, are you ready?

Erin Rhoads: ⁓ I'm sitting down.

Autumn: Hey, I'm gonna get right into it. Switching gears. So my case is called The Man Who Was Running. In July of 1996, a man showed up in a parking lot in Knoxville. He had no wallet.

Erin Rhoads: Do it, I dare you.

Autumn: his pockets were filled with cash, thousands of dollars, and several different currencies. Nearby, scattered across the ground, were gold jewelry, travel receipts, and a fanny pack. and the man himself had been brutally beaten. Police would quickly learn his name, Blair Adams, and almost immediately one question began to dominate the investigation. Not just who killed him, but what had he been running from? Because in the days before his murder, Blair Adams seemed convinced that someone, somewhere, was trying to kill him. And everything he did in those final hours suggested he was trying to escape. But escape from who? Or from what? Blair Adams was 31 years old in the summer of 1996. He lived in Surrey and worked construction. Friends and coworkers described him as quiet but friendly, someone who mostly kept himself but didn't seem troubled. Nothing in his life suggested danger until suddenly everything changed. In early July, Blair began telling people something strange. He believed someone was after him. He never clearly explained who, just that someone was trying to kill him. The fear seemed very real to him. One day, he even showed up unexpectedly at a friend's house and asked if he could stay there. He was nervous, restless, looking out the windows, watching. It was as if Blair believed danger was already closing in. On July 5th, Blair did something that would confuse investigators for years. He drove to the US border, but he didn't make it across. Border officials stopped him after noticing something unusual about his behavior. Blair seemed agitated, and he was carrying a large amount of cash. When officers inspected his vehicle, they found about $4,000 in cash, travel bags, and other belongings that made it seem like he was leaving town in a hurry. Because of the circumstances, Blair was denied entry into the United States. He had no criminal record, but the situation just felt strange enough to border officials that they turned him back. So Blair returned to Canada. But whatever fear had pushed him toward the border that day hadn't gone away. If anything, it seemed to be getting worse. Later that same day, Blair went to the bank. He withdrew nearly all of the money in his account, thousands of dollars. Then he visited a currency exchange and converted some of it into German marks and other foreign money. It was an odd choice. There was no, I mean, he's Canadian, trying to get into US, but he's converting his money into German marks.

Erin Rhoads: Well, yeah. Well, sounds like he's probably going to run to you or attempt to run to Europe and then have different denominations for whichever countries he ends up in. Sounds like he was really terrified and was going to run wherever he could.

Autumn: wherever. There was no indication he was planning a trip to Europe. And yet, he was now carrying multiple currencies in large amounts. To investigators later, it would look like someone preparing to travel or someone preparing to run. The next day, Blair made another sudden decision. He bought a plane ticket, a one-way flight.

Erin Rhoads: Make sense.

Autumn: His destination? Washington, D.C. From there, the trail becomes a little harder to follow, but investigators believe Blair rented a car and began driving south. Hundreds of miles. Eventually ending up in a place where he had no known connections. No family, no friends, no reason to be there. The city of Knoxville, Tennessee. Sometime during the night of July 10th, Blair Adams ended up in the parking lot of a hotel called the Fairfield Inn. What happened there remains a mystery, but the scene investigators discovered was strange. Blair had been severely beaten. The medical examiner would later determine he had died from blunt force trauma to the abdomen, which caused his stomach to rupture. ⁓ Yes. ⁓ But robbery seem be the motive. Because Blair still had money. A lot of it. Sp- ⁓ No. ⁓

Erin Rhoads: That's ⁓ Was it a German? Did they take just the marks?

Autumn: Spread around him and tucked into his pockets were nearly $4,000 in cash. Along with it, German currency, Canadian currency, gold jewelry, travel documents, and a fanny pack. No, especially the jewelry and the cash, the cold hard cash.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah, if this was a robbery, no one's leaving that behind. I wonder if you know if Autumn likes jewelry. You're like, especially the jewelry.

Autumn: Yeah, I mean that was, I know that was like a huge indication. Even stranger, his shoes had been removed. Investigators never fully determined why. Yep, I love doing this to you just so you know.

Erin Rhoads: ⁓ Great, I get to sit with that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Autumn: The layout of the crime scene raised more questions than answers. Why was so much money scattered around? Why hadn't the killer taken it? And why was Blair Adams carrying so many valuables in the first place? It looked less like a robbery and more like something chaotic had happened, almost as if Blair had been confronted suddenly or caught by someone he had been trying to escape. But investigators faced a major problem. No witnesses, no clear suspects, and no clear reason why Blair Adams had come to Knoxville at all. Over the years, investigators and true crime researchers have debated several possible explanations. One theory is that Blair Adams had become involved with dangerous people, perhaps something related to drugs or organized crime. Another theory suggests that Blair may have been experiencing paranoia or delusions and that his fear of being chased wasn't in reality. But that theory also raises an uncomfortable question. If no one was actually chasing him, then who killed him? because regardless of what Blair believed, the violence done to him that night was very real. And whoever was responsible has never been identified. Today, the murder of Blair Adams remains unsolved. Investigators still don't know why he traveled thousands of miles in a matter of days. They don't know why he was carrying cash in multiple currencies. And they don't know what happened in that hotel parking lot in Knoxville. But perhaps the haunting mystery of all is the one Blair himself seemed to believe. ⁓ In the days before death, he repeatedly told people someone was trying to kill him. He was afraid, desperate to leave, running. And in the end, he may have been right. My sources were Unsolved Mysteries, The Charlie Project, the Knoxville News Centennial, and police investigation records from the Knoxville Police Department.

Erin Rhoads: Woo! So what's your theory, Autumn?

Autumn: Honestly, this case has been something that has run on So many of the unsolved mysteries episodes that I watch because they insert it hoping probably that somebody Recognizes it eventually, right? my theory is that he was running from somebody like somebody was out to get him personally and then like knocked him out, like literally killed him and then left everything there because if they had taken that money or done whatever with the jewelry, there was more chance of him being like found and to them, he was the target, not the robbery itself. So they were willing to walk away from the $4,000 just to be able to be done with him.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Definitely feels like a revenge thing. Super weird that they took his shoes off.

Autumn: Super weird. Like, okay, you're not gonna take the cash or the jewels, but you're gonna take his tennis shoes? Yeah, I mean, that is intense. What a way to go. That makes me so sad.

Erin Rhoads: and rupture his stomach. It's intense. I just feel like that in that level of violence, feels like a revenge or some sort of something personal. You know what I mean? I think he was right. think somebody was after him. I mean, obviously he was murdered, you know, and like you said, if it was just a mental health issue. It seems like a strange crime if that was solely what it was.

Autumn: I agree. just wish I hope somebody out there knows something and is ready to talk DMS at murder not murdering on Instagram, please you could or you can reach us on our reddit We have a sub reddit murder not murdering let us know if you know the answer to this mystery or any of the mysteries because They drive Aaron crazy, but I kind of secretly love it

Erin Rhoads: Yeah. Yes, they drive me absolutely insane. If you notice, I have very rarely done it unsolved.

Autumn: Yes, she does. She's very, very rarely done an unsolved case. And here I am, just the queen of the unsolved murder mysteries.

Erin Rhoads: I know I just I love I want it all wrapped up in a bow. I need to know what happened in the end. You know, that's it just it will it'll drive me crazy and nag me but I know that that's the reason what motivates you to do the unsolved cases as they nag you. Yeah.

Autumn: Yes, because I want the answer. want somebody knows there's to every mystery out there. There is somebody that holds the key and perhaps that somebody is you to quote Robert Stack. But for real, somebody knows something, right?

Erin Rhoads: Hahaha! No, mean, look at how many Unsolved Mysteries, like TV show episodes, have been solved by viewers. It's been a staggering amount. So the truth is, it could be you.

Autumn: Yes. And also these fucking old ass men who thought they got away with fucked up crimes and women too, have their DNA, I mean, but most notably these men that like were out there murdering and...

Erin Rhoads: I was gonna say, wow.

Autumn: spreading their seed to say that in a PC type of way. DNA came back to haunt those motherfuckers and now they're in jail. Yes, and I mean, these some of their old and pitiful who take pity on me. No, you fucking dick. Like I'm sorry, just because you're old doesn't erase the crimes that you committed in your youth. ⁓ it makes me so angry. Like it seriously makes me so angry.

Erin Rhoads: so often, I mean. Don't hold back, Autumn. I mean... Well, even in my case, he appealed at age 70, and he was like, hey, I'm frail in my 70s. Let me go. And it's like,

Autumn: No, no, bro. Rot in prison, you piece of trash. Right. Like, I'm so sorry that you're older for now, but you made your decision back in the day.

Erin Rhoads: You dismembered four people. Four people were dismembered. You did some bad shit, man. It's like when we were at, when we went and saw My Favorite Murder Live and they talked about the strangler or the rapist.

Autumn: Yes. The rapist.

Erin Rhoads: the South Hill rapist. And that man also, and he also tried to be like, ⁓ my God, the mom thing. ⁓

Autumn: Kevin Koh. And he had such a weird relationship with his mother. The two of them, that mom, that mom, hope she had the worst time ever and her pillow was always hot.

Erin Rhoads: There you are. While she was having a hot flash suck on that.

Autumn: while she was having a hot flash suck on that.

Erin Rhoads: There you go. Shout out to my peri menopause ladies out there. Woo woo. ⁓ Anyways, thank you for listening to us for five years and doing things like what I just did. And you're still listening, thank God. Yes, and that sometimes we can be a little kooky and we can be a little weird and that's why we're all here, right? Because we're like-minded people and we fucking love weirdos.

Autumn: Mm-hmm, and you're still listening. Thank you so much for understanding us Yes. We love weirdos. Because we are weirdos. Yes.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah, because we have been card carrying weirdos. Yeah, exactly. If you do have cases that you would like us to cover, like my cousin Lauren did, then please slide into our DMs and we will be happy to attempt to cover those cases and research and find out all the information that we can. Follow us on TikTok at mnm.pod. We also have that subreddit that Autumn mentioned, so check that out. And new episodes come out every Monday. Our Instagram will have pictures of the people involved that we're talking about. So check it out. And again, thanks for listening. And we're going to be back again next week with two whole new cases for you. So we will see you then. And thanks for listening to us. Bye. ⁓