Erin Rhoads: right, everybody, we back at Murder, Not Murdering with Erin and. ⁓

Autumn: Autumn, the coolest friend she has.

Erin Rhoads: I, yep, that's it. She is the coolest friend that I have. No offense to Tim or, you know, the many, many other people.

Autumn: You It's true. We don't have to name anyone else. I'm the winner. Doesn't matter who comes after I I didn't say unimp the most important. I just said coolest

Erin Rhoads: Sure. I'll let you guys fight that out together. So anyways, we got a lot of fun feedback on our last episode. I'm glad that people enjoyed it. And I'm glad to hear that from some folks that talked to me that I had some new facts in my case, even though they knew it. So that's always nice to hear.

Autumn: You Yeah, that case was pretty famous. So it's always nice to hear when we cover a famous case and people enjoy listening to our take on it.

Erin Rhoads: I mean, that's why we that's why we keep trying them, right? You just never know. You might find something else. And that's that's why I think it's hard to do the famous cases, because you have to like deep dive so hard to hope to find something that everybody doesn't already know. I mean, you are doing your take on that case, right? And giving your commentary. But still, I think it's a little hard. Besides that, I heard that you have a story for me.

Autumn: It's true. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You

Erin Rhoads: I only know this because right before we logged in, were having technical issues and Dustin, Autumn's tech support slash partner came in and said, are you going to tell Aaron the story? And I said, what story and can you tell me on air? So we're going to give this a go.

Autumn: It's not that... Now you won't have to edit. It just was so strange. It was like one of the weirdest encounters I've ever had. So we... I love Gatorade, okay? Gatorade Zero to be exact.

Erin Rhoads: How hard will I have to edit? That's what I want to know.

Autumn: And it's really hard to find it on sale. And if you don't find it on sale, it's very expensive. It's like $3 a bottle. And who's going to pay that? I mean, truly, like, not me, not me. I like to bargain. OK. And the deals at

Erin Rhoads: Not you.

Autumn: Fred Meyer or like Seafloat is usually like 10 for 10 and I wait for those. But lately they've been like few and far between so I don't have such a stock on hand let's say. Well today I really needed a Gatorade and I was very thirsty Erin. I was parched.

Erin Rhoads: Why did you need that, You feeling a little dehydrated? Little dehydrated, friend? Mm-kay. Mm-hmm.

Autumn: Very dehydrated. Very dehydrated. Needed some electrolytes. so we went to Chipotle to grab some food and right across the street is an AMPM. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go in there and I don't even care at this point how much it is. I'm just gonna buy a cold Gatorade. Well I get in there and...

Erin Rhoads: heard.

Autumn: they were on sale way before I was like, heck yeah, they were three for five, which is a really good deal when it's not the 10 for 10 or whatnot. So I was like, I'm gonna get six of these, okay? Why? Because I love Gatorade and Gatorade Zero, let's be specific because I'm diabetic, but I...

Erin Rhoads: You get hydrated.

Autumn: I was like, heck yeah, I grab three orange flavors, three blue flavors, and I head to the register. I'm a small person for people that don't know me in real life. I'm little. So carrying these six bottles was quite the feat to begin with, right? So then I'm like... There's no baskets. It's an AM PM. So I'm carrying them to the front and this woman's behind me Racing me to the front and I was like, okay, whatever like you can go I'll just stay in here and hold these Gatorades that I'm about to drop and I let her go in front of me She's getting cigarettes whatnot. Let she goes I dumped the Gatorades on the counter to the this man that the behind the register and He goes ⁓ you're taking advantage of the sale and I said for sure they're very I'm like normally they're like at this store they were like Three-something dollars per one and I'm there were three for five. So I'm like, yeah, I am and he's like great. That's awesome He was like really friendly super nice and he goes you need a bag. Well, obviously I'm gonna say yes because I just Juggled these on to the counter and I needed something to carry it and he goes, you might need two bags I'm like, okay, what whatever like just put it in the bag, sir So I pay and he goes do you want the receipt and I say no And so then he tears off the receipt and throws it in a trash. I I mean, I don't need the receipt in this day and age I don't what am I gonna do with it? So then I leave and Dustin drove so I Opened the passenger side put the bags backseat, whatever. ⁓ I walk around the car, get in the ⁓ Dustin's fumbling on his phone just doing something we didn't leave right away. I'm sitting in there, buckled up, I look up, and this ⁓ woman that works there, not the person who me out, she was wearing this vest, like this, like a high vis vest, and she had on a, like a,

Erin Rhoads: Named tag? ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah.

Autumn: mask like coat like coved mask and I mean you could tell she worked there but you have to go on a mask and she just comes out and is staring me down like making eye contact with me and she's holding this like a bottle in her hand like a Windex bottle or something and I'm looking at her she's looking at me and I'm thinking well maybe she can't really see I don't know what's going on why is she staring at me

Erin Rhoads: Okay.

Autumn: And so this is like a prolonged stare and I look at Dustin and I'm like Dustin I am so uncomfortable. Can you back up and leave? don't this woman is Staring me down and then she takes her phone out and starts taking pictures of me And I'm like looking at him and I'm like what doesn't

Erin Rhoads: What?

Autumn: What is happening? He's like, I don't know. And then she starts yelling. She starts screaming. She goes, don't ever come back. And she's like taking pictures of me. And I'm like, Dustin, and I'm about to roll down the window and ask her what the hell is happening. And he goes, he's like, don't do that. And I'm like, does she think I stole these Gatorades that the man checked me out and gave me? I mean, like, how would I have bags from her register if I stole these?

Erin Rhoads: What?

Autumn: It was so weird and I am still freaked out by it. I'm like, why? No, he kept driving and he was like, I don't know why, I don't know. And I'm like, first of all, men suck at that, right? Like, why couldn't I have asked her? Like, what is your problem?

Erin Rhoads: Wait, did you not find out why? Well, if anything, just crack the window, right? If you are worried and be like, what are you talking about?

Autumn: Yes, I mean I don't I Wasn't but to be quite honest, I wasn't worried I was with him right like I'm not I'm not in an eating and dryer but like I was so curious she and me she was Glaring at me and staring me down

Erin Rhoads: Sure. What did she think you did?

Autumn: I have no idea. I was in that store for less than three minutes. I walked right to the thing to get the Gatorades, stood in line, let the weird lady with the cigarettes go in front of me, and then I talked to the register man and then paid. He asked if I wanted my receipt. I said no, and I left. I have no idea what the hell she did. It was so weird.

Erin Rhoads: Well, clearly you made an impression.

Autumn: Right? Like I have, I honestly have no idea what that was about, but it was so jarring. I'm still thinking about it. And it was like, what, over an hour, maybe two hours ago at this point.

Erin Rhoads: Autumn, Autumn, why don't you call? Call the actual place and just be like, hi, I was there earlier. I got these Gatorades. Their lady was yelling at me. I'm not sure what happened, but I left. And I'm just curious if you could, yeah. Well, that's what I would do. I'd just call and be like, hey, what's the deal?

Autumn: and I'm still thinking about it. Yeah, I mean, she was taking my picture and yelling, never come back, never come back. Well, not only that, Erin, those Gatorades are on sale right now. And you know how much I Gatorade. I wanted to go back. I wanted to go back. I just, was like a hundred percent. mean, I was like.

Erin Rhoads: Listen, when we are done, I'm going to urge autumn to call and we will give you an update on the next episode. She has to go back. Yeah, you could only carry so many in the moment.

Autumn: down for six dollars, like what, like five, six dollars after, I don't know, 10 something dollars after tax.

Erin Rhoads: Well, listen, it doesn't matter. We're not, Autumn is down electrolytes. We're not math-ing right now. But what I'm going to tell you is that we will update you on whatever transpires after this, on the saga of Autumn and her hydration station.

Autumn: That was so weird. She was like big bad. She even pulled down the COVID mask to tell, like that's how I knew what she was saying at first because I couldn't hear her. She don't come back. I was like, what? It was so strange. I mean like, just was like.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah, don't come back. You're calling after this. I need to know what happened.

Autumn: I don't know. Maybe she thought you stole it. I'm like, yeah, I stole it. I had the guy at the register give me some bags. I put them in there, walked meandered out. I mean, I didn't even walk very fast. Meandered outside. Right when I let Dustin play on his phone while I'm in possession of stolen gear. Positive, she worked there.

Erin Rhoads: Well, and if you just stole things, why would you sit there too? Now you're sure she worked there? Okay then.

Autumn: Because when I saw her, I saw her when I walked in and she was in a different area like by where the sodas were cleaning the station. And I mean, maybe honestly, if she wasn't working there and if she just was somebody cleaning the station, maybe that could be, but she went back in. Like after she was done yelling at me as we drove away, she went back in. I mean, I guess.

Erin Rhoads: Okay, well. That would make more sense to just unwell. You never know. You never know. Maybe she did think you stole something, watching you on the camera. So maybe she thought she saw you like when you were holding things like slide something under your arm or something. You know what I mean?

Autumn: Maybe, honestly, maybe. It was so weird, but it was so weird. Like, the way she was staring, I mean, it was into my soul and I was feeling so uncomfortable and then that's when she took out the phone and started taking pictures. So we don't come back. was like, ⁓

Erin Rhoads: That's the only thing I can think of. Okay, so we are going to update you on the next episode because the saga of Autumn and her electrolytes is real.

Autumn: Yeah, it was very strange.

Erin Rhoads: Now back to true crime.

Autumn: I mean, I could have committed a crime apparently to this woman.

Erin Rhoads: So here's the deal, though. I've been having reoccurring dreams. And they're not the kind of nightmare you would think. We cover a lot of true crime. And honestly, people are like, does that sometimes get to you? And no, it doesn't. I feel like we've been doing this so long that I'm not numb to it by any means. But I think of it more as a science rather than the actual horrors.

Autumn: It doesn't get to me either, yeah. Mm-hmm like the horse for sure

Erin Rhoads: So I've been having a reoccurring dream that I am a director of a true crime documentary. And I'm having to direct all of these people and talk to them about having to film this documentary. I'm like, visibly doing, I'm like, action, like doing the whole deal, right? But the things are like, someone I know brought a really gross food to a potluck and I'm investigating it of why they would do that and what. Yeah. And they're like.

Autumn: What? So I could hire you for this situation that just happened. I could be like, hey, why'd this lady yell at me?

Erin Rhoads: Perhaps I'll shoot it. I'm going to sit her down and we're going to talk about it in the documentary. But I'm making a really bad documentary and there's like reenactments and all of this. It's been like my like nightmare lately. So, yeah, I mean, I watch a lot of true crime documentaries, so I think it's just like and I watched one the other day, which actually is my case that I'm doing tonight. The documentary was awful like they did.

Autumn: That is hilarious.

Erin Rhoads: really bad reenactments and the reenactments were vocal, know, sometimes that's just like, you know, like unsolved mysteries and stuff. You don't really hear them talking in the reenactments. There's a voiceover. This was like bad porn acting. ⁓ So it was really, really, really bad ⁓ acting. don't know. What you doing here? do you want to be my girlfriend? Like it was just really, really bad. And so I think that that stuck with me and my nightmare was that I was making that type of documentary. I don't know. So that's my fun fact this week.

Autumn: Ha

Erin Rhoads: Autumn, do you have a happy fact for us? You said you were going to look one up.

Autumn: No. Nope. Didn't do it.

Erin Rhoads: Damn it, every week. Letting me down.

Autumn: She made up this segment for me and now I'm letting her down.

Erin Rhoads: You're letting me down. Come on now.

Autumn: My fun fact is that The Bachelorette was canceled three days before premiere.

Erin Rhoads: I never watched that show, but I did hear all about it.

Autumn: I haven't watched in years. I used to watch.

Erin Rhoads: Autumn, did you see the video though of her? Yikes, big yikes.

Autumn: I did and I agree. only, I mean, I have to play devil's advocate here. I saw the video and I strongly disagree with what happened in the video. But here's where I'm having a problem with the video is that the video is from 2023. She was arrested at that time and faced charges, went through the court and did her situation with that.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sure.

Autumn: with that video and the domestic violence, what that happened during that specific incident. So it couldn't have, that's the thing. In 2023, that situation was viral. There is no way that they didn't know about it. They fully knew about it. It also, she...

Erin Rhoads: But they do massive background checks. So why, how did that slip through the cracks? So is this a publicity stunt?

Autumn: I don't think so, no. this is what I, this is what, because me and a good friend of mine, Hannah, are really, really into celebrity gossip and all these things. So we, that's like, you and I in True Crime, Hannah and I are like, that was like celebrity gossip. So she's also a part of Hulu that is the parent company for like,

Erin Rhoads: Got it.

Autumn: for The Bachelorette, right? Like so Hulu and ABC, I think it's ABC, I don't quote me on that, but like they're one and the same. And so her show that she's famous for, Secret Wives of Mormon Wives is on Hulu. So, the producers know everything that goes on. So not only did they know about that incident, they had footage from it and they were...

Erin Rhoads: I don't know.

Autumn: You know what I mean? Like it was, they've known about it. So the fact that they canceled based off that video is basically, in my opinion, after doing a deep dive, is because they too much got leaked of her season. We already know who the winner was. We already know she got engaged. We already know they broke up and we already know that she went back to the person, his name's Dakota, the one that was in that video from 2023.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah. ⁓ So they were worried that people weren't gonna watch.

Autumn: Mm-hmm that everyone already knew that's my theory and also I have to be honest here the two of them Dakota and Taylor are very toxic and he is not innocent they are both very very heavily into toxic behavior and he released that video to the public and He released that video to the public three days before her season was supposed to start to cause this drama

Erin Rhoads: Mm-hmm.

Autumn: Cause her not to be able to be the bachelorette on TV like that was his way of abusing her like taking something from her right so the two of them are awful and toxic together and I'm just sitting here like First of all I have to say she never should have been the bachelorette. She is not in a good headspace. She's not well. She has a lot to work through Yes She has a lot Mm-hmm

Erin Rhoads: Yeah. Getting back. Yeah Well, clearly you can tell with the domestic violence and her child got harmed in that and it was awful.

Autumn: A lot of self-reflection needs to happen for her. And I don't think it was a healthy situation for her to be on The Bachelorette. And not to say that she's not at fault for her actions or shouldn't be held accountable. I believe she should be. But I also believe that they should have maybe waited. I don't know. I don't think she was right for that part. You know what I mean?

Erin Rhoads: Yeah. Sure. Yeah, Well, on that note,

Autumn: ⁓

Erin Rhoads: We're going to move on to murderette one, Autumn. ⁓

Autumn: Thank you for having me today. I will be going forward with my story. Erin, it is extremely local.

Erin Rhoads: Great. I would love to hear. You know, I love a local case.

Autumn: Yeah, and you're gonna hate everything about it, but here we are.

Erin Rhoads: As per usual, I mean, it's it's a it's our it's our podcast about horrific crimes, so it's to be expected.

Autumn: Yes. She's not a child, but everything else is awful.

Erin Rhoads: Cool. Let's get into it.

Autumn: Let's do it. So this is the murder of Jodie Loomis. And if the last name Loomis sounds familiar, ⁓ it has nothing to do with the movie Scream, ⁓ but ⁓ Loomis ⁓ was in Scream. Anyway, a character. That sure that could be my happy fact. There we go. Okay, so ready?

Erin Rhoads: That's a happy fact. Boom. ⁓ I'm ready.

Autumn: Here we go. It's a late summer afternoon in 1972. The air is still warm, but not uncomfortable. A rural road stretches through Bothell, Washington in Snohomish County, lined with trees that cast long, uneven shadows across the ground. A young woman rides her bike along the edge of that road. The soft sound of tires moving over pavement. The kind of moment you don't think twice about. kind of moment that feels safe. Moments earlier, inside her family's home, 20-year-old Jody Loomis is getting ready to head out. She's planning to spend the afternoon at the barn, trail riding with her horse, Soddy. Before she leaves, she borrows a pair of boots from her younger sister, Jana. Waffle stopper boots. It's a small, almost forgettable moment, the kind of thing sisters do without thinking twice. Jodi heads out on her white 10-speed bicycle. She never makes it to the barn. Later that afternoon, a young couple is walking through a wooded area nearby. And that's when they see her, a woman, gravely injured, lying in the woods. She's been shot in the head. There are signs of a violent assault. They rush to help. Emergency responders arrive quickly and Jodi is transported to the hospital. She never makes it there. At first, she isn't immediately identified. There's no ID on her. Her glasses are skew, one of her boots untied. But it doesn't take long for investigators to realize who she is. What happened to Jodie Loomis is the kind of crime that feels both sudden and deeply personal. Investigators believed she had been forced into the woods at gunpoint, that she had been sexually assaulted, and that as she tried to get dressed, she was shot with a .22 caliber weapon. The violence of it, contrasted with the quiet setting, left a lasting impact on the community. In the early days of the investigation, suspicion moved through several possibilities. There were local men who raised concern. A ranch owner who had reportedly behaved inappropriately toward Jody, a tenant nearby who had been chopping wood that day. But suspicion isn't evidence. And in 1972, they didn't have much of that. There were no witnesses who could place someone definitively at the scene. No physical evidence strong enough to move forward. And so, the case stalled. Years passed, then decades. In 2005, the case was reopened by cold case detective Jim Scharf. By then, very little evidence remained. But among those items were the boots. the same boots Jodi had borrowed from her sister that day. A technician at the state crime lab examined them again. And this time, they found something. A small trace of DNA, just enough to build a profile. But even then, it wasn't enough. The DNA profile didn't match anyone in CODIS, and once again, the case waited. It wasn't until 2018 that everything changed. Investigators turned to genetic genealogy, a method that traces DNA through family lines, the same kind of technique that would be used in cases like the Golden State Killer. Piece by piece, they built a family tree, and, eventually, they narrowed in on one family, the Millers. Within that family, one name stood out, Terrence Miller. Terrence had lived in the area at the time of the murder, and more than that, he had a history of sexual violence. Investigators began watching him. quietly, carefully. At one point, they retrieved something he had discarded when he was gambling at the Tulalip Casino. A coffee cup. From that cup, they obtained his DNA. And when they tested it, it matched. After more than four decades, the family had their answer. In April of 2019, Terrence Miller was charged with first degree murder. The case moved forward to trial in October of 2020. For the first time, there would be a courtroom, a jury, a chance for the full story to be laid out. And then, another turn. On November 6th, 2020, While the jury was deliberating, Terrence Miller died by suicide. Hours later, unaware of what happened, the jury returned a verdict. Guilty. A judge later signed an order affirming that the jury had found him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It's a rare kind of ending, one that feels both resolved and unresolved at the same time, because there was a verdict. There was accountability in a legal sense. But there was never a moment where he stood and heard it. Never a moment where the family could fully face him. And yet, after 46 years, there was finally an answer. For Jodi's sister, Janna, that answer carried a weight all its own. Because decades earlier, she had handed her sister those boots. a small, ordinary moment that became tied forever to something unimaginable. And somehow, those same boots would help solve the case. There's something about this story that stays with you. Maybe it's how ordinary it all began. A bike ride, a borrowed pair of boots, a summer afternoon. Or maybe it's the way the truth held on. Quietly. For decades. Waiting. Because even when it seemed like nothing was left, there was still something. And in the end, it was enough. was not forgotten. ⁓ Her didn't disappear. And even though justice didn't come in the way anyone would have chosen, ⁓ It still came. My sources were this. Nahomish County Sheriff's Office, the Seattle Times, King 5 News, Como News, People Magazine and the Everett Herald.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah, that's a frustrating one for me because I hate the way that that ended not having resolution. But the reason why I knew of this case is I did a case a while back about the cold case cards that they used in prisons. You remember that one where they used playing cards, a deck of cards? And she was one of the faces on the deck of cards.

Autumn: Mm-hmm. ⁓ wow.

Erin Rhoads: So I remembered seeing it through that. She was, I can tell you right now, she was the 10 of hearts. I don't feel, ⁓ like you said, it's resolved and unresolved at the same time. Because those. ⁓

Autumn: Mm-hmm.

Erin Rhoads: you have some form of justice, don't really have the, someone didn't have to pay for that, right? As far as actually having to serve time, yeah, serving time. But yeah, that is a frustrating one. I love that so many cases are being solved now with DNA technology. It just shows how important it is to preserve ⁓ evidence.

Autumn: Mm-hmm. it's doing times. I'm like, yeah.

Erin Rhoads: you know, because you just never know when the slightest thing is going to connect.

Autumn: Mm-hmm. It's just crazy.

Erin Rhoads: It is. Well...

Autumn: But I thought I would handle that one because it was very local.

Erin Rhoads: I'm glad you did. I love that and I love going back to the local ones. I'm going back to my roots in this next one.

Autumn: and dismemberment.

Erin Rhoads: Shockingly, no. but this will be the third one of its type I've done.

Autumn: Okay, let's hear it.

Erin Rhoads: Okay, I'm calling this episode, the little trunk of horrors. The story of Emma LeDoux. Let's start with a box, not metaphorically, not emotionally, a literal box, a trunk to be exact. March 24th, 1906, Stockton, California, a Southern Pacific train station. It's the kind of place where people are going somewhere or maybe running from something. And sitting there unattended is a large, heavy steamer trunk. No tag, no owner, no explanation. Which in 1906, you know I love a trunk. Which in 1906 is already suspicious because people didn't just forget their luggage.

Autumn: And Erin loves a seamer trunk.

Erin Rhoads: Without being claimed, the box sat out in the sun all day. By evening, the station workers started noticing something else, a smell. Not subtle, not ambiguous. And this is key because it was smelling like a problem. One man reportedly said that he knew the smell of death and this was definitely it. So they did what anybody would do when confronted with a mysterious stinking trunk. They called the police. An officer arrived with a chisel He pried open the lock and the lid and was met by the shoeless feet of a lifeless man. And just like that, Stockton had a scandal and a headline. Horrible discovery in trunk, body of man crammed inside. Stockton Daily Independent, March 1906. Welcome to my show.

Autumn: ⁓ my god.

Erin Rhoads: Now let's talk about the woman at the center of this, Emma Ledoux. And look, right off the beat, Emma is what we might call complicated. She is beautiful. She grew up with a mother who also had many husbands. She also knew that a woman's currency was in who she married. And before we get into what Emma did, let's keep talking about who Emma was, or rather what people were saying she was. Because depending on who you asked in 1906, Emma Ledoux was a grieving widow, a charming young wife, a morphine addict, a bigamist, a con artist, or my favorite, a woman of particular fascination and dangerous appetites. Born Emma Theresa Cole in 1875 in California, at 16, she married her first husband, Charles Barrett. And that one ends in divorce, which honestly already makes her more progressive than most women of her time, because a lot of them thought divorce was not an option. But then comes husband number two, William Williams. It's a very, yeah, the name, William Williams.

Autumn: I'm very impressed. His parents were very smart about that name.

Erin Rhoads: If only his middle name was William, I swear. Anyway, it wasn't. I can't remember what it was, but it was in there. Anyway, I would have said William, William Williams if that was the case, a thousand percent. Anyway, he was a minor and sadly he died in 1902 at the age of 30, which is crazy young. And the circumstances surrounding his death were somewhat suspicious. It was finally determined that he died of, quote, stomach issues.

Autumn: Maybe it was. ⁓ okay. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Erin Rhoads: And the fact that he was heavily insured with multiple policies, however, was never in doubt for some reason, because Emma collects all the life insurance payouts. And I say payouts because she had multiple policies on him as a 30-year-old man, because nothing says till death do us part like diversified financial planning. And here's one thing about Emma. She does not wait, because within two months of becoming a widow, she marries husband number three. Albert McVicker. received a life insurance settlement from her previous husband's death of nearly $10,000, which would be approximately $378,000 today. It's a pretty hefty sum. Then after telling Albert she really needs to visit her ailing mother, she returns to California alone with the money. But visit her mother, she does not.

Autumn: Mm-hmm.

Erin Rhoads: she starts hanging out at an upscale brothel and spending her time with men who like to spend their money on her. And if you're thinking what could happen next, it's not what you think. Because in 1905, she marries again to husband number four, Jean Ledoux, but without divorcing husband number three. So at this point, Emma is technically the wife of two husbands, both completely unaware of each other.

Autumn: ⁓

Erin Rhoads: And She's leading a double life visiting both of them. Now we're going to talk about Albert McVicker, husband number three. By most accounts, he adored Emma, which is tragic because Emma did not return that sentiment. And this becomes inconvenient because Emma is now married to someone else. And in 1906, bigamy isn't just messy, it's illegal. and potentially ruinous for your entire life. So what do you do if your husband might expose your double life? Well, if you're Emma Ledoux, you try to find a way to solve the problem. In March,

Autumn: I thought for sure you were gonna say, if you're a M.O.W.A.D.U., the answer is murder.

Erin Rhoads: That's too easy. March 1906, Emma invites Albert to meet her in Stockton. A reconciliation, a fresh start, a new city. And if you're listening closely, a setup. They check into a hotel, room 97 at the California Hotel. They spend the day together. they go furniture shopping for their new home. They laugh and enjoy each other's company. It sounds almost romantic. or deeply unsettling because we know a lot about premeditation. Because while McVicar is picking out furniture for a future, Emma is planning to end his. That night, she gives him morphine, a lot of morphine, enough that according to testimony was 10 times the amount needed to kill a man. And she doesn't stop there because poise because poison.

Autumn: Huh.

Erin Rhoads: apparently is not dramatic enough. And Albert was not dying fast. There is evidence next of a physical assault, head injuries and blood leading us to believe that she then bludgeoned him. The next morning, Emma runs errands casually calmly, like she didn't have a dead or dying man in her hotel room. She buys a trunk. She buys some rope, arranges the furniture. that she ordered with her husband to be delivered to husband number four. And then she stuffs Albert into that trunk, possibly while he was still alive. Let that one sit for a second. She has the trunk delivered to a train station. She tells the delivery man it's full of dishes, which explains why it's heavy and fragile. Now we're circling back. The trunk, the smell, the chisel, the feet. The police traced the trunk back to the feet. It's the first thing they saw. The police traced the trunk back to the hotel, room 97, where the landlady confirms that a couple stayed there. And the man is Albert McVicker. And yes, the woman who was with him is gone. But she left something behind, a photograph. And unfortunately for her, this is a huge mistake.

Autumn: Not the feet. Not the feet.

Erin Rhoads: because it's an easy way to identify her. Emma doesn't get far. She is arrested within days. And when confronted, she reportedly says, I know what you want with me, and I will go with you. It's her calmness that bothers the authorities. And then she informs them that her last name is actually not McVicker, but LaDue. Her name is Emma LaDue, and she's married to someone else. The police, are not impressed or confused. They know exactly who she is. But Emma, Emma has stories. Version number one. A mysterious man named Joe Miller killed Albert McVicker. He had been drinking with them all night. She left for a little while, then returned to find Albert dead. All she did was help clean up. Sure, Emma. Version number two. Albert McVicker. Overdosed accidentally because Emma was addicted to morphine and she encouraged him to use it He died when he did too much. So she panicked and naturally as anyone does she stuffs him into a trunk Now neither of these really fit, right? And Emma is so cool under pressure, but she's not a great liar and she cannot keep her story straight. So now the trial begins. It's June 1906 and Stockton is losing its mind. Newspapers are going wild. Crowds are lining up. At one point, people, and by people I mean women, children, and literally whole families, filed past Albert McVicker's body on display at the morgue like it is an exhibit. Because in the early 1900s, America had no chill. This is their entertainment. The prosecution builds a case that is honestly very solid. They show that Emma bought copious amounts of morphine. She bought the trunk. She arranged the shipment. She had motive. Her bigamist life, the money. and the inconvenience of the previous husband. But then comes the science, and the chemist testifies that McVicker's body contained lethal levels of morphine, like I said, 10 times the amount it would take to kill a normal man. And he was like a pretty large man for that time. He was almost six feet, and he was over 180 pounds. That's pretty tall for back then. And then,

Autumn: Mm-hmm.

Erin Rhoads: To prove that it was the poisoning that really killed him, at first, they were trying to say that it was the suffocation, that someone couldn't have survived in the trunk. So the scientist who was studying this case climbed in the actual trunk and stayed in it for 40 minutes to prove that it wasn't sealed and you could breathe inside, which is so gross because you'll see on the Instagram.

Autumn: ⁓

Erin Rhoads: pictures of the trunk and it was quite bloody inside. Anyway, the trunk was not sealed. He could have been able to breathe in there, but between the head injury from being bludgeoned and the high dose of morphine, he never stood a chance. So Emma's lawyer is trying everything, saying she loved Albert so much she never could have been the one to kill him. And They keep saying that she never loved husband number four because he was essentially, and I'm not even kidding, they said ugly, illiterate, and hard of hearing. quote, end quote, women don't like men like that.

Autumn: ⁓ shit, okay. Yeah, that's really weird.

Erin Rhoads: I don't know why they thought that was a good defense because it does. So they said she was going to go back to him and all of this stuff. No. They argue she was a morphine addict and it is proven that she did have trouble with maintaining her morphine addiction. But it said that they were also saying that because she was a morphine addict, he probably was doing it because he wanted to hang with her and that he could have overdosed himself. although the science doesn't show that you wouldn't take 10 times the amount. It shows that she put that in his drink. they're saying also the science is flawed, but the prosecution keeps the same narrative because once Albert ⁓ McVicker would died, Emma wouldn't have just lost a husband. She would have gained a payout again. Because remember, they're pretty sure she did that in her second marriage. Her lawyer said, The defendant made a practice of ensuring the lives of the men that she married. A practice like knitting or journaling. But again, this is an MO that she has done before, taking out multiple policies on the husband. So on June 23rd, 1906, the jury deliberates. Six hours later, they come back with a guilty verdict. First degree murder, No recommendation for mercy, which means death by hanging. Emma Ledoux becomes the first woman in California sentenced to death. Her execution is scheduled. October 1906, San Quentin. And then everything stops. Because one month earlier, the San Francisco earthquake hits and the legal system stalls, appeals drag on, and Emma waits years. It's now 1910 and she's granted a new trial. But Emma is tired and may be starting to see things in a more realistic way. So she pleads guilty. So instead of death, now she gets life in prison. But that woman only serves 10 years and is paroled into the custody of her sister living in Los Angeles.

Autumn: ⁓ okay.

Erin Rhoads: Now don't count her out yet because she was back she was back in San Quentin in less than a year. Her sister and brother-in-law testified that she had been associating with men in a less than respectable manner, coming home inebriated on numerous occasions, and you hold on to your hat, carrying on a rather inappropriate relationship with their 19 year old son. That is 45 year old Emma's ⁓ nephew.

Autumn: ⁓ ⁓

Erin Rhoads: Yeah, so bigamist and now she's also sleeping with her nephew.

Autumn: That's repulsive. Like I can't get over that actually. That's repulsive.

Erin Rhoads: Yeah, super yikes. But now it took three more years, but Emma is paroled once again, March 30th, 1925. And sometime around 1926, she marries a Bay Area man by the name of Fred Crackbon, who apparently has never read newspapers and knew nothing of her past. He died of a stroke in August 1929. And we're pretty sure she didn't do it this time. Now, ⁓ There's a series of minor run-ins with the law when it's discovered that she was running a bogus matrimonial service with her as the sole subject of a lonely men's attention column. Her parole was revoked again and she was headed back to San Quentin in April 1931. In November 1933, she was transferred to the new California State Prison for Women. For two more years, she submitted applications to the parole board. but gave up after every single one of them was denied. On July 7th, 1941, Emma Cole Barrett Williams McVicker LeDoux Crackbon died of ovarian cancer at the age of 69, still a prisoner of the state of California. As for the trunk, it ⁓ is on display the Hagen Museum in Stockton, ⁓ Emma Ledoux wasn't impulsive. wasn't even particularly She was practical. And that's what makes her unsettling. The planning, the insurance policies, the errands, the calmness. Because Emma didn't kill in a moment of passion. She killed like she was balancing her checkbook. And somewhere between the morphine, the marriages, and the trunk. She turned people into problems and problems into packages. My sources were Wikipedia, Emma Ledoux, the Hagen Museum trunk exhibit and case history, SFGate article, Trunk Murderess, Historical Crime Detective, Kings River Life Magazine, 209 Magazine, and the show Deadly Women episode of Vow to Kill.

Autumn: was crazy. ⁓

Erin Rhoads: Right? So many husbands, so little time.

Autumn: You went right back to your trunk days, still.

Erin Rhoads: I mean, this is the third trunk murder that I've done. Most of them, though, had dismemberment because to fit a body in a trunk is

Autumn: Mm-hmm. You can, yeah, to fit a body in the trunk you have to cut them up. Unless they're small.

Erin Rhoads: There was the Mahoney the Mahoney trunk murder, which is a local one. Do go back and check that one out if you haven't heard it yet. That one is a local case that happened. Also kind of an insurance sort of scheme. Then I also had one where someone traveled with a trunk that was leaking. And that was a body. That one is actually called the trunk murderess. And yeah, I just this one and I thought, ⁓ man,

Autumn: Mm-hmm

Erin Rhoads: It's right up my alley. It's 1906, early forensics, all of those pieces. It's been a minute since I've done a woman killer, so I thought, why not equal opportunity for the ladies? And I thought I'd do this one. I believe she for sure murdered her husband number two for the insurance money. Why would you take out multiple insurance policies a man who was fairly young?

Autumn: Mm-hmm. No, I agree.

Erin Rhoads: And she sure did. And she got a substantial amount of money from that. in between times, she married husband number three because she was like, if this money doesn't come through, I got to be married. So she married husband number three, that money came in and boom, she was off to California. She was like, screw you, dude, I am going to go there. And she, they insinuate, well, they insinuate that when she was at the brothels, that she was possibly

Autumn: And she did!

Erin Rhoads: ⁓ sex worker because they were high-end brothels, really wealthy men. That's how she met husband number four, was at the brothel. ⁓ But one thing that I found crazy or interesting or weird is that when they were talking about her purchasing the trunk, the rope, and all of the other things, they said in the trial, the weird thing is why would a woman ever buy rope?

Autumn: Sounds like that tracks in.

Erin Rhoads: unless she was going to hang herself. I was like, well, again, women were not doing labor jobs, right? I think that would be considered something that man's work would need or something of that nature. But I'm like, OK, it just seemed like a weird anecdote to say, why would a woman even buy this? And that was her lawyer.

Autumn: Yeah, that is a weird conclusion. Like you can't buy rope for any other reasons.

Erin Rhoads: A woman wouldn't buy rope unless they were going to hang themselves. I was like, Jesus Christ, dude, what the hell? But the trial seemed very theatrical as well. But the thing that sticks out to everybody and everything I've ever read in a lot of the old newspaper articles, too, is how calm she was.

Autumn: Yeah, that's intense.

Erin Rhoads: modern profiling has called her a psychopath. Because of the fact that she shows no emotion, and she was wickedly smart. She was extremely intelligent. I mean, that's how she was able to pull all of this off. So that was the case of Emma Ledoux.

Autumn: Like no emotion, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Erin Rhoads: The funny thing is I have a very good friend named Emma, so when I was writing it, every time I said it, I was picturing my friend Emma. And she wouldn't murder anybody.

Autumn: No, she would not. She's very sweet.

Erin Rhoads: Yes, but I will have pictures of Emma Ladeau and the trunk and all of these other things on our Instagram page at murder not murdering because the her first mugshot she is wearing a hat that is no joke like a foot and a half off her head. It's Victorian times, right? It's a massive hat. And I love that they included the whole hat in the picture. ⁓ So you're going to get to see all a bunch of her mug shots because she had plenty. A picture of Albert McVicker who was the person who passed away and like I said the trunk because and it's in color and you know you can still see all the blood stains on it. So enjoy that folks. It's a gift from me to you.

Autumn: ⁓ joy!

Erin Rhoads: Adam, why don't you tell them about our subreddit?

Autumn: You can go onto our subreddit, MurderNotMurdering, and discuss true crime there, give us stories of personal experiences, cases, talk about what you wanna talk about, all things murder, so.

Erin Rhoads: And Autumn will be on there to check everything and respond to you as well. ⁓ You can also go to our TikTok, MNM.pod, and we will post videos on there of some of our cases that we're doing. ⁓ But yeah, just please follow us and tell your friends, because we very much appreciate that. We're going to be back next week with new episodes coming out on Mondays.

Autumn: Yes. Yes.

Erin Rhoads: ⁓ Also, don't forget to slide into our DMs or go to the sub-Reddit, and that's how we can get some more cases if there's something you'd like us to cover. Yeah. Last week we did a case from my cousin Lauren, which was super awesome. We love getting your feedback or getting as long as it's positive, ha-ha. We also love getting cases from you and we like to hear from you.

Autumn: Yes.

Erin Rhoads: Please reach out to us. very much appreciate that. And again, share with your friends. And we will be back again next week. Bye.

Autumn: you