Jim Miller: Okay. Alex, thank you for having me. Appreciate it. My name is Jim Miller. I'm the president and CEO of Evergreen Select. Evergreen Select is a cultivated meat company that has built a supply of real beef to meat processors that are looking for delicious, high quality, secure, and cost competitive supply of lean ground beef that they can use in their products. Our lead investor is S2G. And to date we've raised roughly $55 million. used that money to ⁓ de-risk the regulatory, de-risk the science and the technology, scale the process, and towards commercialization.

Alex Shandrovsky: Well, I am so excited to have this conversation. There are certain rounds I raise. just clap my hands in joy and I just pray to the gods that I will have a chance to speak to the president or the founder. And I guess today I was a good kid and I was blessed to have this conversation with you. Look, how did you meet your investor? How did it happen? You lead.

Jim Miller: So lead investor, STG, they're very supportive of our mission and see the value proposition. At Evergreen, ⁓ we the lean biomass, the lean beef, ⁓ we're cow cells and cow media on cow scaffolding. And that product can blend seamlessly with traditional ground beef. fundamentally, we're from a mission perspective. They believe that ⁓ have a unique our technology can scale, our unit economics makes sense, and that we have a value proposition that's going to resonate well with meat producers as well as meat processors.

Alex Shandrovsky: And was this their first investment in the business? So there was a follow on as a lead position.

Jim Miller: This was a follow on as a lead position.

Alex Shandrovsky: So they knew the business really well, right? They had faith in the business, they knew the management and they said, look, I think we have a position here we want to strengthen. And that kind of leads me to the point of, look, clearly there's, know, they make a lot of investments, they have a lot of companies they have a position on, they chose to reinvest in you. In addition to that, without going into the specific particulars, there was some press about two years ago, so that, you was challenging and you still were able to secure this investment from them, right? So what is the thing that gave them the confidence to say, hey, I think that this is something we want to take a closer look at and invest more into.

Jim Miller: underpinnings of company and of the technology are sound. So regardless of what is happening in the world, those things are sound. And the team that we have in place, I've had over years in biotech and food manufacturing. And our entire team has a tremendous amount of experience bringing complex projects to scale, things to market. ⁓ So. From my perspective, it's the underlying technology, sound. There's a lot of confidence in the management team to execute. And those are the things that enable follow on investments.

Alex Shandrovsky: Okay, so let's break down each one of those things because you mentioned a key points here. And I think some of these are really objections that you have to face and I think the whole industry is facing, right? The whole self-published industry is facing. So let's start with, think, big one. First of all, what is the product you intend to sell? What is the thing that you are going to sell to the market that the market is ready to buy?

Jim Miller: So you look at the beef industry in the United States specifically, there's different grades of trim. big there is the lean trim, ⁓ things 80 % and higher protein to fat ratio. Our biomass is essentially 100 % lean protein. So that's value prop right? A ⁓ meat processor can take our take our lean trim, you know, 100 % protein and they can blend that with ground beef with a lean concentration produce a product that would be ⁓ similar an 80-20 burger is a typical application.

Alex Shandrovsky: Okay, so what you're essentially doing is you're going to create a blend where you are the premium part of the blend and then they can use lower, say, lower cost cuts to stretch the ingredients. So you're the premium part, they are the lower cost cost. You do a mix, say, in the ground beef and now it becomes a higher value product.

Jim Miller: Yes, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a lower cut. mean, overall in the United States, there is a constrained supply of lean trim availability. So somebody blending product with a 93.7 as an example to produce a very high quality protein product is definitely an application that customers and and processors would be. would be interested in. I don't want you or I don't want your audience to think that this is just a protein extension of a lower quality product because that's not the case.

Alex Shandrovsky: But is the play though that you are bringing the cost down for the consumer? Is it higher nutritional value? Where is the pain? Which pain point are you serving in this use case?

Jim Miller: So if you look at the ground beef prices in the United States over the last three years, as an example, if you look at that graph, you're gonna observe two things. Number one is you're gonna observe that those prices have only increased steadily over the last three years. there's no change that I can see on the horizon there. The other thing that you're gonna observe is that there's a lot of variability in the spot price market. Some the feedback that we've gotten from some of the companies that we've talked to is that You know, when the prices go above, wholesale prices go above $4 per pound, it creates a real issue and a real pain point for their customers. So we can provide a stable, secure product that processors can use to hedge the risk against spot price volatility. So, and that to us is a big attractive thing. And some of the larger producers apply different types of hedging strategies to manage around that. But a lot of the regional producers and the regional food companies, don't have those same tools available to them. for us, it's a drop in solution for them enable them to be able to manage the riskless spot price of volatility.

Alex Shandrovsky: So the value there is the more the you know what price you'll consistently get with this product. It may be costly than what you experienced four years ago. It may be cheaper than what you might experience two years in ⁓ future. But what you do know is you have the consistent number that you can go and bring back to your customers and they can know they rely on the price.

Jim Miller: Yeah, and there's another key observation as well. When you look at the historical prices of beef, they've only increased over time. you look at, no matter what cultivated meat company or whatever, company you look at, ⁓ one universal truth there is that the price decreases with scale. So to me, that's part of the value proposition there as well.

Alex Shandrovsky: And same logic can be applied towards the meat industry. ⁓ have seen tremendous scale in the green revolution where you're doing factory farming and that's probably bringing down costs. Why wouldn't you say the same thing for the meat industry? Just curiosity.

Jim Miller: I mean, history hasn't shown us that. If you look back at the real data that we have from the industrial agriculture, it doesn't show that the prices have decreased over time. It shows that they've gotten more expensive. So know that the existing systems can be improved. with being said, we're not at this as a way to replace the existing industry. That's not our goal. The ⁓ current industrial system is... feeds billions of people every day. it's a very sophisticated system. What we're doing is we're providing another ⁓ of lead beef protein that through can really help to provide stability for the market as well as products for the customers and help to control costs there as well.

Alex Shandrovsky: I think this strategy is, hope our listeners can really appreciate the strategy, how radical in some ways it is. Because if you notice and speak, this is the podcast, it's Paul Shapiro of Better Meat Co. He was ⁓ very strong advocate and is a very strong advocate for animal rights. But his Rhizoprosin, is clearly a hybrid strategy. He believes that's how you're going to win in the market, right? We're not going to replace an existing infrastructure. That's what's working, right? And it sounds like to me, you're again taking the same position that ⁓ cell culture, me to bring value to the ecosystem, it has to at least start as a hybrid solution rather than a standalone product.

Jim Miller: Yeah, I think when I talk to investors or even when I look at the cultivated meat industry over the last several years, of the key challenges there has really been... Does the technology scale, does the product taste good? then also, ⁓ importantly, ⁓ it commercially viable? ⁓ what is it going to take for that product to be ⁓ viable? And a big piece of that isn't just the cost and the quality, but it's also the consumer acceptance. ⁓ And think that's a critical way of looking at things. And having a solution that help with the consumer adoption, to me, is a smart strategy to help us get to, you know, who knows where we're gonna be in 30 years, right? We all have the best forecast in mind, ultimately, we have to start somewhere and we have to figure out how to make these products commercially successful. ⁓

Alex Shandrovsky: I think it is worth mentioning to Jim's point that this podcast is being recorded during the middle of like, you know, whether it's the ninth day of the, or the 10th day of the war with Iran. So we don't know what's gonna happen next week. So, but it seems like the beef prices, like oil prices are only gonna go up. So we'll see where it takes us. Take us to the next step, which is you handle this piece, where's the pain point, the value. Well, question, why not use mycelium? Why not use rhizoprotein if you do a hybrid protein? Why do I need cell cultured solution? Why not do the same thing with a plant-based solution and blend it? Like we blend soy into our... Chicken burgers, often it's already an acceptable piece. Why not do the blend like Joy's doing that, riser protein? Why do I need cell culture and meat to solve this problem? Maybe plant-based is a better solution for hybrid anyways. ⁓

Jim Miller: And can't criticize other companies' approaches. I think we all have our own for pursuing. the strategies that we are. I can speak to our own experiences though. And this was a critical piece of our story. we were focused on combining our lean biomass with the plant-based fat and flavor systems. And we found was that we were running up against the limits of technology. We could close to a real burger, but we couldn't actually get there. And then on top of that, our ingredients were getting very complicated. think at one point, you know, we had north of 15 ingredients and a very kind of complicated processing step. And, ⁓ you know, what we found is that those plant-based ingredients were introducing things we had to figure out how to address. So we took a step back and we said, okay, we're growing cow cells in cow media on cow scaffolding. So essentially we're making beef protein. What would if we just blended that beef protein with traditional ground beef. And when we do that, when we did that, it was huge. You know, the taste was there, the texture was there, the browning was there, performance of there. And everybody that's tasted our product is just amazed. you know, so for us, you know, as a company, we saw this as a real opportunity, you know, to provide a solution that, you know, meat processors and food manufacturers could drop into their existing supply chains. you know, in their existing products and the performance and the characteristics because customers at the end of the day, they don't want to have to relearn what beef is, right? They have expectations around, you know, how that beef is going to perform and, ⁓ you know, aligning our product with those outcomes, you for me is a key piece of any good strategy, right? You have to have a desire within somebody to want to consume something.

Alex Shandrovsky: And for that product, the feel piece, the taste piece, is the biomass that you're adding, is it adding nutritional value to the product? Also, you see it in adding also a taste profile. I've tasted Mission Barnes pork meatballs. That was very exciting. As someone who grew up as an atheist and then became an orthodox Jew who keeps kosher. Eating pork again was very exciting. have to tell you it's definitely my bucket list of experiences. You know, and it did remind me of the notes that I had when I used to eat pork. It was very, very interesting. So is your biomass adding flavor, notes, umami, something in addition to the, let's say the protein value, or is it just a functional ingredient that just increases the the health benefits of the meat that people are eating.

Jim Miller: No, the biomass tastes good. We've done some internal product development work where we've actually taken the biomass and essentially made a ⁓ fajita as an example. the product tasted good. So ⁓ it's just the nutritional aspects. It's a good tasting on its own as well.

Alex Shandrovsky: Okay, awesome. and you mentioned a drop-in, right? Which I really like. Is it simply that you're your slurry, I'm guessing, cells, let's get it, into a mixer with ground beef and just gets mixed in? Is it just that simple of a drop-in or there's some other downstream steps that are important ⁓ this a drop-in ingredient?

Jim Miller: So without going too much into the technology, I don't want to go too far down there because it tends to lose people, but essentially our scaffolding material is bovine based. So when we harvest our biomass, we're not ⁓ a... a cell slurry that you might see from other companies. It's actually a solid material, right? So that's what's actually getting blended. So it's not a slurry that we're then introducing into some sort of a scaffolding post-processing. So our titers are north of 350 grams per liter. When you look at a typical cell culturing operation, it's going to be

Alex Shandrovsky: 45.

Jim Miller: single-digit titers. So it's a totally different model there. And that's really one of the key things that unlocks our ability to scale and to get to the economic model that we have.

Alex Shandrovsky: Wow. So it's interesting, it reminds me of when I Ryza protein at Better Meat. They're harvesting whole chunks, right? That's kind of the harvesting. What you're getting is lot of whole chunks. So you're harvesting a whole piece, almost, right? This is not a slurry, it's not a mass. It's a really, like almost a 3D layered piece, whatever this harvesting.

Jim Miller: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, our scaffolding is a 3D material and that scaffolding technology, the fact that it's a 3D material actually helps us in our bioprocessing as well. And again, I'm at a very technical level here, but you know, one of the big challenges as you work to increase cell densities is the effect of shear on cells and cell growth. And by having that 3D structure, that's one of the things that protects the cells during the bioprocessing operations.

Alex Shandrovsky: Yeah, James, I have to make you feel very comfortable that if somebody is not interested in this, they don't belong here. You because because I think this is really at the core. What I like speaking with you is that you're really at the core talking about reality. You're not talking about a wonderful YouTube video. You're not sharing some visionary Ted talk here. This is a technician, a scientist showing you, look, this is how we're different. This is how we're solving the real issues that plague this

Jim Miller: You

Alex Shandrovsky: business sector, right? So I think our audience, actually, if they're still here with us, they love what you're talking about. So feel very, very comfortable making us want to leave. So don't worry. You have my full permission on that point. And I think that would take us like, let's take a step deeper, which is I've had Syfy Foods products, and their position was, look, we need a GMO cell line. You cannot do this without GMO. Now that if that is the case, then you have the regulatory concern and also the consumer concerns. What does this mean to you have a GMO cell line of like animal protein? what you're doing because a GMO, it going to be, are you worried about the regulatory implications of that? How are you handling that piece of ⁓ puzzle?

Jim Miller: Yeah, so just to be very clear, our cell line is not genetically modified. don't use any hormones, no added growth hormones, no antibiotics. Part our strategy in terms of our cell line development was that ⁓ we it as... a value addition to have a non genetically modified cell line. And that strategy there, you know, a big piece of that was as we look to expand, you know, evergreen, you know, across the world is, you know, different, and you know this yourself Alex, right? Different regions of the world have, you know, different opinions with regards to genetic modification. So was a conscious decision to make during the development of our cell line that we did not want to go down that

Alex Shandrovsky: Well, congratulations. So there's no transgenetics for sure. There's no even no hormones. ⁓ Okay, wow. That's extremely positive. And how does it reflect in your regulatory path? Right? It sounds like there's some regulatory milestones you're trying to reach with this this raise. You know, have already submitted a dossier? Are you doing a self grass path? Like where are you in how you look at regulatory path? At least I'm assuming United States. That's that's what I'm guessing.

Jim Miller: Yeah, we have regulatory submissions in the United States as well as Singapore. And those regulatory submissions, we've been in that process for some time with both of those agencies and it's progressing. And, you know, I feel that we have a line of sight. You know, there's things that, you know, of course that we don't control with the regulatory agencies, right? And when I look at things, you know, from their perspective and having worked in biotech ⁓ so many years, I have a great respect for the regulatory agencies. And I acknowledge the difficulty ⁓ of the job that they're trying to do, right? They're charged with essentially safeguarding these systems for their population. there's a tremendous amount of respect that we have. And there's things that we don't control, but then there's things that we do control. And where really tried to focus our efforts is by producing the quality work package and the most comprehensive assessments that we can possibly do. from my perspective, we've We've done everything that we can to provide them with the most comprehensive information and as responsive as we could be to support their mission because it's critical to our success.

Alex Shandrovsky: Well, I appreciate that spoken very diplomatically as well. And I know you do mean it. Now to be a little spicy here, I'm going to be a little spicy and we'll see where this takes us. ⁓ you're still hearing this, means we didn't cut this question out. One of the people I love and respect most is Adam Bergman. And he's from ⁓ Eco incredible individual. So he says, look for...

Jim Miller: I do,

Alex Shandrovsky: look at cell culture meat and long term I'm very ⁓ but I look at three things. Do people want it? Is it regulatory available? ⁓ is there an amount that can satisfy the need of the consumers? So to you have ⁓ cell products in United States that are legally allowed to be sold. People want and yet they're not being sold. right? You know, there's some tastings here and there, there's some pop ups. But if you go into not, you know, into a market in California, you're not going to see upside, you're not going to see good, right? It's not it's not on the shelf at the moment, right? Is your belief that their regulatory submission that you're asking for with the technology you have now will have also the unit economics to allow your product to go into an ingredient into an actual final good?

Jim Miller: Absolutely, absolutely and then that's That was a key part of our strategy as well is that didn't want to create a ⁓ product that wouldn't be acceptable to the market. ⁓ part of our strategy as well is we have, and I'm not to disclose specifics there, but we do have MOUs working towards commercial offtake agreements with food producers and meat producers. Part of our experiences, and mine in particular, done this for over 30 years ⁓ the way you get to achieve any outcome is by ⁓ with people that are experts in particular areas. So part our strategy is to provide our biomass and to work with customers to develop these products and to ensure that they can meet all the attributes that they need to be to be attractive to their consumers.

Alex Shandrovsky: And to be very clear, those attributes of price and taste. And availability.

Jim Miller: Well, yes, it's taste, texture, performance. Price is super important. got to be of the highest quality. If were to be an issue anywhere in the cultivated meat space with regards to quality, would just bring all the entire industry down. So we take quality very seriously. We take food safety very seriously. there's all these attributes that ⁓ we to ensure that our products are going to set. as far.

Alex Shandrovsky: I love that. I love that. If you're looking at this fundraise, what was the biggest objection you felt like you had to handle? And how did you handle it? I mean, there must have been something that people were just coming back to again and again and again. And had a way that you handle it that ⁓ convinced that this is something that they can believe in.

Jim Miller: It's a, I love that question. It's a, it's, You know, it's not one thing, right? It's a sequence of things, right? You have to have clear line of sight for regulatory. You have to have very good science. You have to have a technical approach. You have to be able to demonstrate, you know, economics. You have to have a team can execute. You have to be willing to work in partnerships, you know, with ⁓ customers. So I think, I don't think ⁓ one thing. I think it's a combination of a number of different things. And I think, you know, part of it is do you the right strategy? Is there going to be desire for whatever it is that you're trying to produce? you have a plan that's reasonable, well-developed? ⁓ the last piece is can the team execute? ⁓ And I it's bringing all those things together. And I don't think it's not any thing that gives people the confidence to trust you with their money. Because that's what people are doing at the end of the day. They're deploying their capital and they're entrusting that capital to you to make good decisions and to have good operating mechanisms. And I think that's of the benefit of ⁓ just myself, but for the team that I've created here, is I think we have a track record of having delivered over many years.

Alex Shandrovsky: for those investors that put in the cash, right? And they put in, they ⁓ have confidence that they gave $8 million, right? which is for US company is not a lot. ⁓ I probably, I'm guessing maybe a year, ⁓ 12 ⁓ 14 of runway potentially. Again, we can discuss that. And there's way you're going to get to a place where you're going to be profitable, I'm guessing at the end of that $8 million, right? Are you already in a place where you know which milestones you need to hit? And can you talk to what those milestones need to be in this round? And why do you believe those milestones are enough for you to go out and raise more cash?

Jim Miller: Yeah, I'm sorry. ⁓ big piece of this is, when talk about just as an example, there's things that we don't necessarily control, right? But with that being said, there are leading indicators.

Alex Shandrovsky: Thanks.

Jim Miller: And, you know, achieving those leading indicators and based on the feedback that you get at particular points in time, being regulatory or, you know, commercialization efforts or technical those are, you know, give you a higher level of confidence that you're going to achieve that subsequent milestone. ⁓ I have a group of investors. I have a great board. You know, I'm very fortunate to to have the people with the knowledge and the expertise and the willingness to spend their time working with us. And one of the things that is important to me is that I have to be transparent. I have to be courageous. I have to be able to have difficult conversations at times because things don't always go according to plan, right? So investors can handle bad news, but they don't like to be surprised. So I think it's having that. one of the things that is important to me is that I have to be transparent. I have to be courageous. I have to be able to have difficult conversations at times because things don't always go according to plan, right? So investors can handle bad news, but they don't like to be surprised. So I think it's having that. that ongoing dialogue and having that credibility, having that trust is what empowers or enables organizations to progress. ongoing dialogue and having that credibility, having that trust is what empowers or enables organizations to progress.

Alex Shandrovsky: Is there something that you're doing to bring that to the board meetings? Is there something that our listeners can learn from you about how you go about educating? What does a board meeting look like for you that we can learn from around how you structure a board meeting or just a conversation with an investor?

Jim Miller: So I spent a large part of my career delivering highly complex, very high capital projects in ⁓ environments. In my previous role, ⁓ projects were ⁓ of 200 plus million dollars, right? So these are very important initiatives, even though I was fortunate to be part of the team that ⁓ a COVID vaccine to market back during the pandemic, right? So when you're these types of highly complex projects that are very important to the company, very important to the consumers. They have a lot of visibility. You develop skill sets around how do you effectively communicate because you to be able to communicate clearly and get your message across ⁓ succinctly. So it's really a skill and I've been fortunate in my life to have those opportunities. ⁓ work with many different people ⁓ develop that skill set over the years. So it's probably another podcast. I'm happy to teach a college course on this. yeah, I spent years developing my craft as a large CapEx project delivery person, ⁓ project manager.

Alex Shandrovsky: Yes. Well, I think this is actually quite a key point to us, close out the conversation. I think we definitely have to have you on part two, which will be just presenting to the board, is that you are a person with a very significant amount of experience on execution. You've executed, this is not your first startup, this is not your first fresh out of college, fresh out of grad school or PhD. What has the farmer world taught you about this industry? What do you think we can learn from them that would really redefine how we look at cell culture meat? What principles can we learn?

Jim Miller: One of the things that's always stuck with me over the years is having strong foundations and really fundamental structures in place. So just as an example, every large company I've worked at over the last 30 years, started off with a daily meeting. If it was a large organization of 500 people, there were probably 20 different scrums happening throughout that organization that all kind of fumbles up to the right levels of management. So even our company here, where it's It's a very capital efficient, a very lean team. know, every day starts off with a scrum meeting, right? It's the team getting together, looking at the plan for the day, figuring out, you know, how are we going to work together to achieve whatever outcome. And that's one example, but there's a whole way of managing businesses and kind of managing organizations to deliver specific outcomes. again, it's a skill set. But one of things, having spent so many years working for Fortune 500 companies, they a lot of money educating staff and implementing systems, ⁓ link six sigma, all these kind of key of working it. And these things are valuable. They can really make a difference in terms of how organizations achieve their outcomes.

Alex Shandrovsky: Can you give us one last nugget of something that you guys do culturally at the company that you introduced that will surprise our listeners and say, damn, that's interesting.

Jim Miller: I don't know, for me all these things are second nature. It's a way of working. things that somebody asked me one time was, you what's your favorite book or what's your favorite movie, right? And I didn't want to answer the question that way, right? I thought about my favorite song, Go Your Way by Fleetwood Mac. I'm sure you've probably heard of it at some point in time. And ⁓ people love guitar, they love the vocals and everything, but the piece that really resonates for me is Mick Fleetwood. And if you think about the band and the things that they were experiencing during those times, you know, he was really setting

Alex Shandrovsky: Yeah, great, great.

Jim Miller: the cadence, right? was the heartbeat. He was setting the organization or he was allowing Lindsay Buckingham to kind of really lead the guitar, or Kristi McVeigh. Yeah, so I think that cadence and that leadership in terms of, know, ⁓ do we work together every day? How do we create an environment where people can be the best versions of themselves, recognizing that things aren't always going to go according to plan, but want to create a culture and an environment where people can be the best versions of themselves. And these are like core ⁓ beliefs core things that are important to me and they're important to the rest of the organization as well.

Alex Shandrovsky: Well, I think our listeners are better off by listening to this podcast and learning from you. And I'm going to call this part one, because you already booked for part two. How can we thank you? You gave us a lot of wisdom. You didn't even charge us a consulting fee for it. So how can we give back after the wisdom you shared with us? What do you guys need for the next 6, 12 months? How can our listeners help?

Jim Miller: So. You know, right now we're looking for people that we can partner with. know, specifically we're looking for, ⁓ know, strategic food manufacturers, strategic meat processors. We're looking for regional food manufacturers. We're for regional processors. And what we want to do is ⁓ we want work together on our products so that we can, you know, develop commercial off-taker agreements, you know, assuming that we can get to the price and have the regulatory approval, so on and so forth. are things that are important. We're also looking for investors that ⁓ agree our strategy. We see value in the ⁓ existing agricultural system. ⁓ They billions of people every day. How are we going to feed the next billion? How do we work together to make that happen? So we're looking for investors that are excited about story and want to be part of our success.

Alex Shandrovsky: Amazing, amazing. Well, congratulations on all the success you already had. And I can't wait to taste some of this product and see it on the shelves.

Jim Miller: Yeah, yeah absolutely Alex if you're in the neighborhood we'd be happy to host you for a tour and a tasting.